Hotel Prom Death

[luvsJack]

Unless she had the girl restrained/tied up she is not responsible the girl didn't go home. That is the girls responsibility. Like I said she can't physically make the girl go home. She can't pick her up and put her in the car.

So, lets say you take your dd (I don't know if you have a daughter, just using that) and her friend to the movies. You come to pick them up and the other girl says "I'm not going with you" and jumps in the car with a bunch of older guys that she doesn't know and rides away. You do nothing? Its not your problem?

I never said she could restrain anyone, that's ridiculous. All she had to do was tell the girl's mom.

 

[EMode]

She should have called the other mom. She knew the other mom said no, she asked her. And even if the girl had not died, letting the girl's mom sit and worry all not was not the adult thing to do. But she didn't have to sit and worry, she could have called around looking for her dd.

If I am driving the kids somewhere and one of them has a curfew and we plan to be out after that curfew, then yes, I make sure they call. Just as I expect dd to do when the tables are turned and she will do when she is out driving herself or with her bf driving. And I said plainly, if its something out of the norm, I will clear it ahead of time--I don't plan to rent hotel rooms for them but if I did.

Last weekend, we took dd and her bf to NOLA. Should I have just taken him without knowing his mom knew where he was going? I didn't talk to her, but I knew that he did. He was supposed to be home at a certain time, when it was obvious we weren't going to make that time, should I just let her sit and worry? No, I told him to call and he did.

How do you know the boy's mom didn't tell the girl to call her mom?

DD will be just turned 18 when she goes to college. She already has the skills in place to make decisions on where to go and the choices to make. Me sitting here worrying all night isn't required for that nor is staying at a hotel on prom night especially if I have already plainly said no.

My responses are in red.

 

[luvsJack]

See this is where we differ. If I'm renting a room for my own child and he/she wants their friends to stay over night at age 17 it is up to those friends to run that by their parents and get permission. I don't call friends parents to make sure they can sleep over my house, they arrange that with their parents themselves. This is the same thing IMO. I will ask that they do get permission but I'll take their word on it, I'm not checking up.
I stopped calling parents a couple years ago, and just because its prom night doesn't mean I'm going to be starting again.

Since these rooms are usually rented for partying and/or sex, I would say its a whole lot different than staying over at your house.

I don't ask parents for normal stuff either, but again, if its something out of the norm, I would. Not really even ask, but more of a "hey, I rented dd a room at the hotel so she can just stay there after prom. If your dd or ds wants to stay its fine with me". And if a parent whose child was riding with me said "no, I don't want her/him to do that" then that kid would either get in the car with me or I would call the parent to make sure they knew the kid wasn't coming home. As in "hey, you told me that xxx couldn't stay at the room but he/she said it was ok so I left him/her there"

 

[Hannathy]

So, lets say you take your dd (I don't know if you have a daughter, just using that) and her friend to the movies. You come to pick them up and the other girl says "I'm not going with you" and jumps in the car with a bunch of older guys that she doesn't know and rides away. You do nothing? Its not your problem?

I never said she could restrain anyone, that's ridiculous. All she had to do was tell the girl's mom.

Actually at 17 no it isn't my problem. I didn't have 3/4ths of the kids my DD knew at 17 parent's phone numbers. All I"m doing at 17 is providing transportation, no different than if they were on a bus or a taxi. How a child acts is between them and their parent at 17. If the child was 7 then yes I would do something but not at 17. Lots of times you drop off kids and take different kids home, it isn't unusual.

 

[luvsJack]

My responses are in red.

Since the boy's mom was the one that asked and she knows the girl's mom said no---read what I said in my post above.

She was the adult in the situation, she didn't act like one and sadly it ended tragically. She isn't the only one responsible by any means but she does hold some. She took on the responsibility of that minor when she agreed to bring her home.

 

[Hannathy]

Since these rooms are usually rented for partying and/or sex, I would say its a whole lot different than staying over at your house.

I don't ask parents for normal stuff either, but again, if its something out of the norm, I would. Not really even ask, but more of a "hey, I rented dd a room at the hotel so she can just stay there after prom. If your dd or ds wants to stay its fine with me". And if a parent whose child was riding with me said "no, I don't want her/him to do that" then that kid would either get in the car with me or I would call the parent to make sure they knew the kid wasn't coming home. As in "hey, you told me that xxx couldn't stay at the room but he/she said it was ok so I left him/her there"

You talk to all the parents of all your kids friends? My DD went to the prom with a group of about 12 kids, I never met at least 10 of the parents before, let alone talk to them or have their phone numbers! They went to the prom and then the after prom and then to the one kids house to finish the night. That boys parents certainly didn't call everyone's parents to see if they had permission. That was between the kids and their parents. Also how do we know the boys Mom knew she was 17? a lot of kids are 18 by now. I didn't know who wasn't in the group my DD went to the prom with.

Some of the responses on here act like the kids were 5! They are graduating, going off to school or the military, they do this stuff on their own. No one calls parents and arranges play dates. No wonder there are so many problems on college campuses.

 

[EMode]

Since these rooms are usually rented for partying and/or sex, I would say its a whole lot different than staying over at your house.

I don't ask parents for normal stuff either, but again, if its something out of the norm, I would. Not really even ask, but more of a "hey, I rented dd a room at the hotel so she can just stay there after prom. If your dd or ds wants to stay its fine with me". And if a parent whose child was riding with me said "no, I don't want her/him to do that" then that kid would either get in the car with me or I would call the parent to make sure they knew the kid wasn't coming home. As in "hey, you told me that xxx couldn't stay at the room but he/she said it was ok so I left him/her there"

If it was a parent who I am friends with sure I'd discuss things but it would be because we were friends and most likely planning something for our kids together. If its just some parent of my kid's friend then I wouldn't bother. These kids are 17 (some even 18), they (may) will be going away to college in a couple months, I don't need to involve myself with their parents, that is their responsibility at that age.

I realize that this situation is different because the parents did speak to eachother, I'm just talking in general.
And FTR, my dd will be going to prom next year, I have no plans of renting a hotel room for her or anyone else and if she isn't home when she is supposed to be, I'll be out looking for her.

 

[luvsJack]

Actually at 17 no it isn't my problem. I didn't have 3/4ths of the kids my DD knew at 17 parent's phone numbers. All I"m doing at 17 is providing transportation, no different than if they were on a bus or a taxi. How a child acts is between them and their parent at 17. If the child was 7 then yes I would do something but not at 17. Lots of times you drop off kids and take different kids home, it isn't unusual.

That's really sad, that in the situation I used, anyone would just watch it happen and do nothing. Hopefully you will never have the need to depend on another parent for the safety of your child. Kids do dumb things--ALL kids.

Years ago, my sons had a dance party. A girl was dropped off by her mother. 45 minutes later a boy we didn't know showed up to pick her up. I walked out of the party to find out for sure that it wasn't her brother (some of the other kids came to me and said the girl didn't need to go). It wasn't, I told her to go back in and that the boy was welcome to the party but she wasn't leaving with him until I knew it was ok.

She called her mom and handed me the phone, her mom thanked me and advised me to tell the boy to leave. I did. I still don't know the whole story but this mom trusted me to chaperon her dd and I trusted her to know the boy didn't need to be there. Funny thing was, the girl wasn't upset in the least and stayed until the end of the party and her dad picked her up.

Sometime we rely on other parents if for nothing else but to let them know what is going on. If I had just let her go, it would have been hours before her parents would have known she was with this boy.

 

[JanaDee]

And if the girl wouldn't leave? what is the mom to do?

And you seriously clear the plans for your 17 yr old? whose going to clear the plans in 2 months when she is at school? Or are they suddenly going to know how to do that in 2 months?

Yes, I clear the plans for my 17 year old. He is still in high school and will be for another year.

And yup, I stayed up all night until curfew Prom night waiting for him to come home. My DH laughed at me, but I didn't care. I knew I wouldn't sleep until he came home, anyway.

What a sad situation all around.

 

[EMode]

That's really sad, that in the situation I used, anyone would just watch it happen and do nothing. Hopefully you will never have the need to depend on another parent for the safety of your child. Kids do dumb things--ALL kids.

Years ago, my sons had a dance party. A girl was dropped off by her mother. 45 minutes later a boy we didn't know showed up to pick her up. I walked out of the party to find out for sure that it wasn't her brother (some of the other kids came to me and said the girl didn't need to go). It wasn't, I told her to go back in and that the boy was welcome to the party but she wasn't leaving with him until I knew it was ok.

She called her mom and handed me the phone, her mom thanked me and advised me to tell the boy to leave. I did. I still don't know the whole story but this mom trusted me to chaperon her dd and I trusted her to know the boy didn't need to be there. Funny thing was, the girl wasn't upset in the least and stayed until the end of the party and her dad picked her up.

Sometime we rely on other parents if for nothing else but to let them know what is going on. If I had just let her go, it would have been hours before her parents would have known she was with this boy.

In the situation you mentioned in other post, what would you do? I don't know 3/4 of my dd's friend's parents, how would I get ahold of them right then and there? Should I follow the car, or call the police? Hold the girl hostage if she doesn't listen when you tell her not to go?
Just wondering how far you would go if you don't know the parents?

 

[Hannathy]

Hopefully you will never have the need to depend on another parent for the safety of your child. Kids do dumb things--ALL kids.

I don't depend on another parent for the safety of my child at 17. I depend on my child at that age.

 

[luvsJack]

You talk to all the parents of all your kids friends? My DD went to the prom with a group of about 12 kids, I never met at least 10 of the parents before, let alone talk to them or have their phone numbers! They went to the prom and then the after prom and then to the one kids house to finish the night. That boys parents certainly didn't call everyone's parents to see if they had permission. That was between the kids and their parents. Also how do we know the boys Mom knew she was 17? a lot of kids are 18 by now. I didn't know who wasn't in the group my DD went to the prom with.

Some of the responses on here act like the kids were 5! They are graduating, going off to school or the military, they do this stuff on their own. No one calls parents and arranges play dates. No wonder there are so many problems on college campuses.

Since most of dd's friends are people she has known her whole life and many of the parents I have known since before she was born; yes, I do.

I don't have all their phone numbers, but I do know them.

DD isn't the kind of person that would have a room to begin with and if she did, she wouldn't have anyone in it that wasn't a part of her circle. IF during their senior year, they wanted to go somewhere after prom, it would be the 4 closest friends and yes, the parents would talk first.

Kids don't just become responsible at 17 or 18, its a learning process. And leaving mom to worry all night isn't responsible for the kid or the boy's mom. The kid needs to know that sometimes the most responsible choice isn't the one we want to make and many times that comes with hearing your parent say no. The responsible thing for the boy's mom and the girl to have done was to call the girl's mom.




This wasn't a group of 12 kids. This wasn't parents that had never talked. This is a couple and the mother did in fact talk to the other mother that very night.

No one is arranging play dates, but I will not leave a kid that has been told clearly to come home to just find their own way. And I will not leave a girl in a potentially dangerous situation because it "isn't my problem".

 

[EMode]

I didn't realize how late it was so I have to run. If someone comes across an update to the story could you post it. Hopefully more facts will come out and the girl's mom can at least know what happened and how.

 

[luvsJack]

I don't depend on another parent for the safety of my child at 17. I depend on my child at that age.

Well, hopefully that will work out for you. Sadly, for many parents, it doesn't.

All kids will do stupid things, even at 17, probably especially at 17. They don't always see the danger in what they are doing or the irresponsibility in it. They still need guidance and because they are out and about without their own parent, sometimes it comes from another parent.

 

[luvsJack]

In the situation you mentioned in other post, what would you do? I don't know 3/4 of my dd's friend's parents, how would I get ahold of them right then and there? Should I follow the car, or call the police? Hold the girl hostage if she doesn't listen when you tell her not to go?
Just wondering how far you would go if you don't know the parents?

Like I told Hannathy, I do know them.

And if I picked the girl up, I know where I got her. So if I didn't have their number, I would go to their house. I wouldn't just leave the girl in the dangerous situation.

We live in an area where if I don't have a kid's parent's number, I can find someone that does. We all pretty much know each other in some way or form.




And all of this is immaterial anyway--the mom in the OP DID know how to tell the girl's mom. There is no question of that.

 

[EMAW_KSU]

I don't depend on another parent for the safety of my child at 17. I depend on my child at that age.

You child never rides with another parent?

 

[JanaDee]

Like I told Hannathy, I do know them.

And if I picked the girl up, I know where I got her. So if I didn't have their number, I would go to their house. I wouldn't just leave the girl in the dangerous situation.

We live in an area where if I don't have a kid's parent's number, I can find someone that does. We all pretty much know each other in some way or form.




And all of this is immaterial anyway--the mom in the OP DID know how to tell the girl's mom. There is no question of that.

I think it is hard for people that don't live in smaller towns to understand yes, you mostly do know all the parents.

But in this case, there is no question the boy's mother knew the girls mother and knew how to contact her.

 

[Hannathy]

You child never rides with another parent?

want to knit pick everything? That wasn't the context of how it was used in this discussion
I don't depend on them any more than I would a bus driver to be legally safe to drive and to follow the rules. If they were noticeably drunk then I would depend on my child to not get in the car.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

I think it is hard for people that don't live in smaller towns to understand yes, you mostly do know all the parents.

But in this case, there is no question the boy's mother knew the girls mother and knew how to contact her.

Right. We can argue over whether or not we would let our son and daughter go out with a parent we don't know some other time. For this specific topic, the two mothers knew each other. The two mothers spoke on the phone. One mother asked the other if the daughter could sleep over at her house. The girl's mother said no. The boy's mother still had them stay at a hotel. Now my question is this. Would you, as an adult and parent, do what the boy's mother did? If you were the girl's mother, would you take offense at what was done by boy's mother?

 

[EMAW_KSU]

want to knit pick everything? That wasn't the context of how it was used in this discussion
I don't depend on them any more than I would a bus driver to be legally safe to drive and to follow the rules. If they were noticeably drunk then I would depend on my child to not get in the car.

So you do depend on other parents for the safety of your 17 year old.