Horrible Disney news.....

[tarmand]

exactly...rape is an act of violence and yes there are serial rapists walking around who will" date" rape again and again because to many people assume "she was asking for it". just like someone is asking for it if they go to a mall after dark and get robbed, walk down a big city street and get mugged and that little kid playing in her yard asks for it when she get molested by some pervert...they are all crimes of violence and all victims,not anything else. the guy who raped my friend didn't see anything "wrong" with what he did either. as for the disney case, even if she was not pulled off the street, since when did going to someone's apartment = asking for sex? if it has in some's mind it is truly a sicker world than i thought.

I would like to clarify my opinion a bit more. I don't think that going into someone's apartment = asking for sex. I'm just defending my opinion that there are different degrees. I don't believe that if you go out on a date with someone and he asks you into his apartment and then rapes you that you deserved it. My opinion is in the extreme cases where you are a willing participant and then decide midway that you have changed your mind that it can be considered as bad as someone who had no intention of having sex and it was forced upon her.

 

[L107ANGEL]

No means No! Rape is a disgusting act of violence that leaves the victim mentally tortured. It is a debate like this one that I now understand why so many victims are reluctant to come forward.

 

[BelleMcNally]

I disagree. I do not believe there are different degrees. Rape is rape. Being violated is being violated whether you know the person or not. In fact in some ways, if it is a person you know, I think it's even more damaging because the victim IS going to blame herself.

Yes, sometimes woman do stupid things that put them at risk. It doesn't make that crime any less.

Yes. Thank You.

 

[d4est]

I would like to clarify my opinion a bit more. I don't think that going into someone's apartment = asking for sex. I'm just defending my opinion that there are different degrees. I don't believe that if you go out on a date with someone and he asks you into his apartment and then rapes you that you deserved it. My opinion is in the extreme cases where you are a willing participant and then decide midway that you have changed your mind that it can be considered as bad as someone who had no intention of having sex and it was forced upon her.

I almost don't dare to type this, but here goes...

Would you feel differently if the victim were your child?

 

[BelleMcNally]

wow...I just can't believe what I'm reading...I will not "roll my eyes" at anyone or think anyone's an "idiot"...I won't even bother getting mad about what's been said...

I'll just go on the record as having said that rape, no matter what adjective you put in front of it, comes with such an amount of pain, violation, anger and fear that it doesn't even begin to be quantifiable...so arguing over what "kind" is the worst amounts to nothing...

And I will pray, as I do every night, that someday we will live in a world without rape.

And if I can't have that, I'll take one where a victim doesn't have to fit his or her pain into a smaller box because their experience doesn't fit someone on the outside's horror flick definition of "scary".

 

[tarmand]

I almost don't dare to type this, but here goes...

Would you feel differently if the victim were your child?

No, you really shouldn't have went there. I think is was totally uncalled for, but here's my take on that. Hopefully, I will teach my daughter to not be careless and to not put herself in those types of prediciments. I hope my daughter doesn't turn out to be the type of girl that would initiate sex to begin with, but if she did and then changed her mind mid-way, she has put herself in a bad position. I would be sad, angered and upset, but again, we must always think about what we are doing in life before we allow ourselves to get to a point of no return. Every action causes a reaction and not all reactions are good ones.

But, thanks for taking such an interest in my daughters upbringing. Why is it that because we don't agree, you feel the need to bring my daughter into this?

I'm not denying that date rape is not rape. But, if there are different degrees of murder, why aren't there different degrees of rape?

 

[d4est]

wow...I just can't believe what I'm reading...I will not "roll my eyes" at anyone or think anyone's an "idiot"...I won't even bother getting mad about what's been said...

I'll just go on the record as having said that rape, no matter what adjective you put in front of it, comes with such an amount of pain, violation, anger and fear that it doesn't even begin to be quantifiable...so arguing over what "kind" is the worst amounts to nothing...

And I will pray, as I do every night, that someday we will live in a world without rape.

And if I can't have that, I'll take one where a victim doesn't have to fit his or her pain into a smaller box because their experience doesn't fit someone on the outside's horror flick definition of "scary".

Holy well-said Batman!

 

[Miss Jasmine]

wow...I just can't believe what I'm reading...I will not "roll my eyes" at anyone or think anyone's an "idiot"...I won't even bother getting mad about what's been said...

I'll just go on the record as having said that rape, no matter what adjective you put in front of it, comes with such an amount of pain, violation, anger and fear that it doesn't even begin to be quantifiable...so arguing over what "kind" is the worst amounts to nothing...

And I will pray, as I do every night, that someday we will live in a world without rape.

And if I can't have that, I'll take one where a victim doesn't have to fit his or her pain into a smaller box because their experience doesn't fit someone on the outside's horror flick definition of "scary".

I agree with everything you wrote. It's such as shame that in this day and age a victim still has to worry about what she was wearing, what she was doing, what people will think, etc. So much is taken away by this one act. It doesn't end once the rape is over.

 

[BelleMcNally]

No, you really shouldn't have went there. I think is was totally uncalled for, but here's my take on that. Hopefully, I will teach my daughter to not be careless and to not put herself in those types of prediciments. I hope my daughter doesn't turn out to be the type of girl that would initiate sex to begin with, but if she did and then changed her mind mid-way, she has put herself in a bad position. I would be sad, angered and upset, but again, we must always think about what we are doing in life before we allow ourselves to get to a point of no return. Every action causes a reaction and not all reactions are good ones.

I'm not denying that date rape is not rape. But, if there are different degrees of murder, why aren't there different degrees of rape?

So a parent whose child was shot swiftly in the head grieves less than the one whose child was stabbed and bled to death?

(And, for the record, I can't imagine how I would have felt if my mother, in any way, even implied that I was to blame for my rape...I know, in my heart, that you would never do that to your daughter, right?)

 

[d4est]

No, you really shouldn't have went there. I think is was totally uncalled for, but here's my take on that. Hopefully, I will teach my daughter to not be careless and to not put herself in those types of prediciments. I hope my daughter doesn't turn out to be the type of girl that would initiate sex to begin with, but if she did and then changed her mind mid-way, she has put herself in a bad position. I would be sad, angered and upset, but again, we must always think about what we are doing in life before we allow ourselves to get to a point of no return. Every action causes a reaction and not all reactions are good ones.

But, thanks for taking such an interest in my daughters upbringing. Why is it that because we don't agree, you feel the need to bring my daughter into this?

I'm not denying that date rape is not rape. But, if there are different degrees of murder, why aren't there different degrees of rape?

Hmmm...good thing I was prepared.
I wasn't "taking an interest in (your) daughter's upbringing." Where did I mention how she is or isn't being brought up? I wasn't "bringing (your) daughter into this." (I said child...you might have more than one, now or in the future) I was merely throwing this out there: that if the situation were closer to home, you would probably end up feeling differently. Maybe not, but probably.

It wasn't a personal attack, as I guess you are seeing it. I was asking a yes or no question. The reason I was hesitant to ask is that I have a child too, I love children. I am teacher. I don't even like to "think" about bad things happening to them...like even "thinking" it might be a jinx. That is why I was afraid to type it.

You are intitled to your opinion...I didn't ask just because we don't agree, but rather to put into a different perspective. That is it. Period. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

Again, glad I was prepared for the backlash...

 

[L107ANGEL]

No, you really shouldn't have went there. I think is was totally uncalled for, but here's my take on that. Hopefully, I will teach my daughter to not be careless and to not put herself in those types of prediciments. I hope my daughter doesn't turn out to be the type of girl that would initiate sex to begin with, but if she did and then changed her mind mid-way, she has put herself in a bad position. I would be sad, angered and upset, but again, we must always think about what we are doing in life before we allow ourselves to get to a point of no return. Every action causes a reaction and not all reactions are good ones.

But, thanks for taking such an interest in my daughters upbringing. Why is it that because we don't agree, you feel the need to bring my daughter into this?

I'm not denying that date rape is not rape. But, if there are different degrees of murder, why aren't there different degrees of rape?

Ok, speaking as one mom to another there are situations that will arise where
rape can be caused with out any actions initiated by your child. I know this as a matter of fact. What if your daughter needed a ride home one night and a friend offers to give her a ride and then rapes her. Did she do something wrong here? Should she feel she somehow put herself in this terrible situation. I should hope not!!
I really hope you never know what a victim or her family go through when this happens!

 

[tarmand]

Hmmm...good thing I was prepared.
I wasn't "taking an interest in (your) daughter's upbringing." Where did I mention how she is or isn't being brought up? I wasn't "bringing (your) daughter into this." (I said child...you might have more than one, now or in the future) I was merely throwing this out there: that if the situation were closer to home, you would probably end up feeling differently. Maybe not, but probably.

It wasn't a personal attack, as I guess you are seeing it. I was asking a yes or no question. The reason I was hesitant to ask is that I have a child too, I love children. I am teacher. I don't even like to "think" about bad things happening to them...like even "thinking" it might be a jinx. That is why I was afraid to type it.

You are intitled to your opinion...I didn't ask just because we don't agree, but rather to put into a different perspective. That is it. Period. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

Again, glad I was prepared for the backlash...

I don't think I gave you as much backlash as you feel that I did. But, if the tables were turned and I had asked you how you would feel if your son was involved, how would you have taken it?

I've stated my opinions, as controversial as they may seem. I'm done here since some people can't understand opposing opinions and feel the need to get personal. I enjoy a good debate, but always try to be polite and civil. I feel that I can no longer do that on this thread.

 

[Planogirl]

I suspect that if this had happened somewhere besides on Disney property that there would be less people trying to justify it. I see people here all the time assuming that someone charged with something is guilty but suddenly in this case one should wait and see. Don't get me wrong, I believe strongly in the "wait and see" philosophy, it's just ironic that suddenly it's a good thing to do.

As for someone putting themselves in the position to be raped and therefore being partially responsible, that's nonsense IMO. Should all strippers be raped? Should teens who make out with their boyfriends be raped? I always said that if a model walked down the street stark naked then she still shouldn't be attacked and I stick to that philosophy.

Anyway, date rape doesn't just involve someone being in the act itself and suddenly changing their mind. Even though both parties should be able to. Think of it this way. Assuming that Natalee Holloway was date raped as so many assume, did she ask for it?

Sigh... I also thought that we'd beyond the "she asked for it" beliefs.

 

[d4est]

I don't think I gave you as much backlash as you feel that I did. But, if the tables were turned and I had asked you how you would feel if your son was involved, how would you have taken it?

I've stated my opinions, as controversial as they may seem. I'm done here since some people can't understand opposing opinions and feel the need to get personal. I enjoy a good debate, but always try to be polite and civil. I feel that I can no longer do that on this thread.

Well I apologize, again, if you are leaving this thread on my account. I explained my post...it was not meant to be the kind of personal you are talking about. But rather, to get you to see this from a different point of view. I believe I was and am polite & civil. I never threw names or got mean & nasty. I asked a question.

To answer your question. I would be devastated if my son were involved. I wouldn't, however, take offense if someone asked me how I would feel about it.

 

[cleo]

I can't believe I'm going to reply to this, but the very idea that a woman should 'also blame herself' makes my stomach turn. I would very gently and respectfully suggest there may be a lack of understanding of what rape is, and why it happens. Putting yourself in the WORST of situations, knowingly or not, does not make you an accomplice in your own rape, god forbid it should happen.

I think it's entirely fair to ask the question about how anyone would feel if (again, God forbid!) it was their child. My mother might suggest that any flippent comment one might make regarding 'fault' without having gone through the process of watching your child survive and recover (as much as one can recover) is shameful at best.

I sincerely and respectfully hope you never know.

 

[brerrabbit]

A couple of thoughts on the situation. Rape is a crime, not a crime of passion but of violence. Rape is Rape regardless of its description. Secondly, in America we are innocent until proven guilty, lets not condition the crime and say if she did this or if she did that, or if the men involved got the wrong signals. Lets let the facts come out and the 4 suspects have their day in court. Then as the details are released and the trial is over we will have all the information. I agree with an earlier poster that this is getting a lot of milage because its Disney related. These sad occurances happen every day in America and its not a national news item, but if Disney's involved its all over the news and the internet. Disney employes thousands of people in Florida and just as with any cross section of people anywhere in the world you are going to get the good with the bad. Lets just all agree that rape is a crime and forget about the circumstances till and if there is a conviction, then the circumstances can be viewed to determine appropriate sentencing.

 

[d4est]

I can't believe I'm going to reply to this, but the very idea that a woman should 'also blame herself' makes my stomach turn. I would very gently and respectfully suggest there may be a lack of understanding of what rape is, and why it happens. Putting yourself in the WORST of situations, knowingly or not, does not make you an accomplice in your own rape, god forbid it should happen.

I think it's entirely fair to ask the question about how anyone would feel if (again, God forbid!) it was their child. My mother might suggest that any flippent comment one might make regarding 'fault' without having gone through the process of watching your child survive and recover (as much as one can recover) is shameful at best.

I sincerely and respectfully hope you never know.

Another well worded post. I guess I am not very eloquent in putting my thoughts into the written word. Kuddos to those of you who are!

 

[cleo]

d4est, I've had many years to think about this particular issue. And I've heard it all...'It's your own fault', 'It's not your fault'. I guarantee, one of the most difficult things to overcome is to STOP blaming yourself.

I 'understand' the opposing opinion, I just wonder if it is an opinion that may be based on something other than experience. Perhaps not. It's not for me to say. My opinion (and that's all it is) is based on a bit more than what I think 'sounds logical'.

Even so, I am still in the 'wait for the full story' camp. I have a son, I have a brother and I have a husband. If any one of them were accused I would want the WHOLE story told. The woman's whole story (without judgement) and the men's whole story. I am absolutely certain there is more to this one than 'we' have heard.

 

[cardaway]

And I will pray, as I do every night, that someday we will live in a world without rape.

Please include a world without people claiming they were raped when they were not. It happens, and that is why the discussion has to go further.

That is why people question why a girl was in boys bedroom in the first place. That is why sexual history comes up. Short of taping every encounter, they are the only things you can do to prove you were falsely accused.

If fact, if I was young and single, I might have to think seriously about doing just that.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

I'm really sad that there are so many here on this thread whose lives have been affected by this act of violence.