homeschool ? Please help.

[Planogirl]

FWIW - and I'm done with this topic. I have no other user name and never did. I am using the same name I used on Prodigy, and there are several people here who can recall that.

I'm too old to play the IBB name game, nor do I have a dog in this hunt or really care. I was curious. If you don't like getting questioned about those children who may fall thru the cracks, well, sorry, pass on the topic. It's seems that you keep on going back to all the successes and refuse to discuss what is being done about the failures. That's pretty telling - and a common debating technique. If you don't want to give the answer, change the subject.

I know there are some very very qualified people on this board doing an excellent job homeschooling their children and never said there were not. I even used, as an example, a good friend of mine, with a gifted son now in MIT, who was homeschooled. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

But some folks seem to have an issue discussing the exceptions - those children not getting an appropriate education from less than qualified parents.

Perhaps the answer IS to put them in public schools and hold those schools and parents accountable.

So, my question is and always was... what is being done about those children in states without testing who are not getting an appropriate education?

I tend to agree with some of your points. Saying that public schools perform poorly doesn't excuse any examples of poor homeschooling IMO. All standards need to be high no matter who does the teaching.

Texas appears to be very lax at monitoring homeschooled students just as they are bad about dealing with the public schools. It's sad either way.

 

[sha_lyn]

I'm too old to play the IBB name game, nor do I have a dog in this hunt or really care. I was curious. If you don't like getting questioned about those children who may fall thru the cracks, well, sorry, pass on the topic.

The thing is why do you keep grilling us on that small subset of home schoolers? How would you feel if I repeatedly asked you what were you doing to insure that every public school child received a good education?

But you folks seem to have an issue discussing the exceptions - those children not getting an appropriate education from less than qualified parents.

We have issue with you repeatedly trying to somehow hold us accountable for them. You don't seem to be able to accept our answers.
I'll try it one more time.....
It doesn't matter how struck the home school laws are. That small subset would do 1 of 2 things. Either function "off the radar" or form a private religious school. Why do you want to all home schoolers to be accountable for this small group? Why do you want to make home school regulations harder because of this one group?

As for testing, can a child be forced into public school etc.
I looked over a few of the laws in the states that are rated hardest to HS in.
I'm not running back and looking right now, but I believe this pertains to NY.
Testing is required every yr and if the child scores below 33% the HS is put on a yrs probation. I did not look further into the law to see what exactly they meant by probation, but if my failing memory is correct(from previous discussions on homeschool forums), they can take steps to force the child into PS at the end of the probationary yr.

On the surface that might not sound like a bad idea right?
I'll use our own situation as an example. As I said early part of our decision to HS dd was because she was not ready for K. Her birthday is right before the cut-off, she is small for her age (20-25% percentile etc). Her development is right on target for her size.
I had to start reporting her as being home schooled the yr she turned 6 (which was 1 yr after we started homeschooling). She was about 1/4 of the way through a K curriculum at that point. We had started a preK curriculum the previous fall, and started the K work around the end of the yr. We took our time so that she knew the material well.

So by the schools schedule, DD would be starting 1st grade that yr, not K. Let's say testing was required at the end of that yr. There is no way DD would have scored well on a 1st grade level test. We did give her a K test for our own piece of mind. She scored right around the 50% on all subjects (not a grade of 50% correct. She scored in the average scale).
If testing was required by the state, who would decide what grade level test she had to take? The state I would assume, and they would likely require a1st grade test. So my child who was right on track according to her preK teacher and MD very well could be "labeled" as failing and our HS program put on probation.
This yr we finished up 3rd grade work and tested. She scored 99% in math, 98% in reading and 87% in language arts.

 

[Mary2e]

Nothing..You do here about the occasional intervention by CPS however.
Kids fall through the cracks in Public and Private school too though.

Thank you. That's what I figured.

But in PS or even private, there are more mechanisms in place to catch them. It doesn't always happen, but at least the possibility exists.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Thank you. That's what I figured.

But in PS or even private, there are more mechanisms in place to catch them. It doesn't always happen, but at least the possibility exists.

Yes, that is true

 

[sha_lyn]

Nothing..You do here about the occasional intervention by CPS however.
Kids fall through the cracks in Public and Private school too though.

It really does seem to depend on the state, and can even vary greatly depending on the district. IE some districts in GA send out letters after a family registers as home schoolers. In some districts the letters give out completely false information in an attempt to have more control over the home schoolers. IE that try to dictate then start and end days of the HS yr. Say that testing and the yearly evaluation have to be turned into them etc.
Create their own versions of the required paperwork that ask for information not required by law etc.

As for calls to CPS.... I have a good friend who's grandmother called CPS on her for homeschooling. The grandmother refuses to believe that it is legal to HS.
The caseworker interviews my friends DD for about 10 min on their front porch and the case was closed.

 

[Mary2e]

The thing is why do you keep grilling us on that small subset of home schoolers? How would you feel if I repeatedly asked you what were you doing to insure that every public school child received a good education?

It's not my job to monitor the public schools. That's what I pay taxes for. However, as a proponent and a HS parent, you should do whatever you can to ensure this method of teaching children is monitored adequately. That doesn't include insulting people who question your way of teaching (and I don't mean you specifically).

However, it's very telling that none of you want to talk about those people and instead trott out statistics on the successes.

We have issue with you repeatedly trying to somehow hold us accountable for them. You don't seem to be able to accept our answers.
I'll try it one more time.....
It doesn't matter how struck the home school laws are. That small subset would do 1 of 2 things. Either function "off the radar" or form a private religious school. Why do you want to all home schoolers to be accountable for this small group? Why do you want to make home school regulations harder because of this one group?

So this is it... you don't want scrutiny. Got it. You fight to the end so that YOU don't have to follow more stringent regulations. Not that you would fail - you probably would not - you just don't want the scrutiny.

I've got my answers now, and I thank all of you.

In 22 states there is no independant testing done of HS children to ensure that they recieve an appropriate education. There's also an army of HS parents that will argue to the death to defend their way of teaching. So much that they will insult anyone who dares ask questions to get more information.

Like I said, got it.

 

[sha_lyn]

It's not my job to monitor the public schools. That's what I pay taxes for. However, as a proponent and a HS parent, you should do whatever you can to ensure this method of teaching children is monitored adequately.

It's not my job to monitor home schoolers. That is what I pay my taxes for.
As a public school parent and proponent of public schooling, you should do what ever you can to ensure that method of teaching is monitored adequately and stay the hell out of my business.

 

[JennyMominRI]

It really does seem to depend on the state, and can even vary greatly depending on the district. IE some districts in GA send out letters after a family registers as home schoolers. In some districts the letters give out completely false information in an attempt to have more control over the home schoolers..

Yes, I was in the middle of this in Ca..It was going on for years. Finally the BOE's had to order this woman to cease and desist in harrasment of HSers

 

[JennyMominRI]

.



So this is it... you don't want scrutiny. Got it. You fight to the end so that YOU don't have to follow more stringent regulations. Not that you would fail - you probably would not - you just don't want the scrutiny.



Like I said, got it.

Absolutely. If you are going to scrutize homeschoolers in the same way you do PS then you(state) had better be prepared to give children diplomas at the end... The states don't. Homeschooled kids attain these things from outside sources.
There are quite a few supreme court cases which give parents this rights..Wisconsin V Yoder for 1

 

[Mary2e]

It's not my job to monitor home schoolers. That is what I pay my taxes for.
As a public school parent and proponent of public schooling, you should do what ever you can to ensure that method of teaching is monitored adequately and stay the hell out of my business.

BWAHHHAAAAAA You just proved my point. Thanks.

One other question. Please find where I hold any of you accountable for HS requirements. It appears you've taken my question personally.

I never realized homeschooling was a militant organization that does not want scrutiny.

Got it.

 

[sha_lyn]

Yes, I was in the middle of this in Ca..It was going on for years. Finally the BOE's had to order this woman to cease and desist in harrasment of HSers

That was big news on several of the HS forums.
At one point wasn't "she" telling any and everyone that homeschooling was illegal in CA?

 

[JennyMominRI]

That was big news on several of the HS forums.
At one point wasn't "she" telling any and everyone that homeschooling was illegal in CA?

Yes.. I got one of the letters myself

 

[JennyMominRI]

BWAHHHAAAAAA You just proved my point. Thanks.

One other question. Please find where I hold any of you accountable for HS requirements. It appears you've taken my question as a personally.

I never realized homeschooling was a militant organization that does not want scrutiny.

Got it.

Seriously, Do you hold all public schoolers accountable for the many PS who fall through the cracks? If not then why are you holding HS parents to higher standards?

 

[Mary2e]

Absolutely. If you are going to scrutize homeschoolers in the same way you do PS then you(state) had better be prepared to give children diplomas at the end... The states don't. Homeschooled kids attain these things from outside sources.
There are quite a few supreme court cases which give parents this rights..Wisconsin V Yoder for 1

The states that test and scrutinze should give diplomas to those students. It's simply an alternate method of teaching which can be just as successful or unsuccessfulu as other methods. The key is scrutiny. And this is what HSers don't want.

 

[Mary2e]

Seriously, Do you hold all public schoolers accountable for the many PS who fall through the cracks? If not then why are you holding HS parents to higher standards?

I'm not. I want to hold them to the same standards.

 

[JennyMominRI]

The states that test and scrutinze should give diplomas to those students. It's simply an alternate method of teaching which can be just as successful or unsuccessfulu as other methods. The key is scrutiny. And this is what HSers don't want.

That would be because it comes down to your fundamental right as a parent.. It is assumed by the state that you feed your kids.. It is assumed by the states that you do not beat your kids... The state only steps in when there is a suspicion of neglect..Why should education be any different? Yes, we have a vested interest in seeing that American children are educated, but I would say that interest is no greater than the interest in seeing that children are fed and not abused.. Should the state also get to monitor nutrition? Should they get to control what's fed to children?
Should all homes be monitored by CPS because a certain segment of the population abuses chilren?

Why should monitoring of PS be more stringent? It should be more stringent because it recieves it's funding from the state, which is made up of the people, and as such the people have an inherent right to monitor it.
That said, a poor job is done monitoring PS.. Private schools only have as much monitoring as they choose to allow . Where are the threads about Private School parents policing other Private schoolers?
A child can legally drop out of public schools at 16 in most every state and yet there are people here complaining because not all homeschoolers take Calculus?

 

[Mary2e]

Every state has an educational requirement and all PS and private school kids have to take tests to ensure schools are meeting those requirements.

In 22 states the requirement does not exist for HS children. Some fall through the cracks and are not properly educated to the state's requirements. Why should the children and parents in those 22 states get a pass? What of those who do not meet the requirement?

 

[JennyMominRI]

Every state has an educational requirement and all PS and private school kids have to take tests to ensure schools are meeting those requirements.

In 22 states the requirement does not exist for HS children. Some fall through the cracks and are not properly educated to the state's requirements. Why should the children and parents in those 22 states get a pass? What of those who do not meet the requirement?

Actually , private schools choose to be monitored or not..There are standards only if they agree to them.. There are plenty of private schools that only monitor themselves. That's why they are private schools

Here is the definition of a Private school
Private schools, or independent schools, are schools not administered by local, state, or national government, which retain the right to select their student body and are funded in whole or in part by charging their students tuition rather than with public (state) funds
Supreme Court case law has provided that a combination of parental rights and religious liberties provide a broader right of parents and private schools to control the values and curriculum of private education free from State interference."[1]

 

[Mary2e]

Thank you for that. I know that in my area they're all tested.

What is telling is that it's being argued under religious grounds. Explains some of it, for me, at least.

 

[JennyMominRI]

To take the private school even further, here is the info on Independant Private schools,which is what homeschools are in many states including Ca

The four fundamental freedoms that independence grants
Independence in terms of governance and finance affords our schools four fundamental freedoms:

To define one's mission without dictates from the government or diocese.
To admit and retain just those students the mission indicates the school should serve, since enrollment in independent schools is a privilege not a right.
To hire faculty based on the school's own criteria for excellence, as opposed to state or union stipulations regarding education degrees or certification.
To articulate a curriculum and program as an individual school sees fit, without being tied by the state (or any other outside agency) to a particular program, set of texts, or achievement assessment instruments.
The freedom and accountability embodied within these concepts of the independent school are the source of independent schools' greatest strengths and their most important contribution as a model for education


This means
1 Independant Private schools do NOT have to hire teachers with degrees
2 The are not followed AT ALL by any state or local organization...
These Independant Public Schools are all over the country..
Now to apply your principles to the private schoolers, you should be asking anyone who sends their kids to Jewish school or Catholic schools why they aren't responsible for the kids who fall through the cracks in other private schools