Home Daycare Next Door

[mdsoccermom]

I wonder if all the people saying it is only for a short time each day or it is no big deal would feel the same way if it was next door to your house.

I work from home. I hear all the noises of the neighborhood all day. It's summer vacation and all the kids are out and about and noisy. Big deal. I tune it out by working and keeping busy. Frankly, I don't feel I have any right to tell people to keep the noise level down in their yards in the middle of the afternoon.

 

[pixie dust 112]

Christine~ I have no advise, but it sounds to me like you are planning to go about this in a considerate manner. I hope the conversation goes well so that you can have a bit more peace in your home! Good Luck, I am sure it has got to be tough to approach a nice neighbor with something like this. You need to resolve things, but you don't want any hurt feelings! I'm sure your neighbor values that she has you as a neighbor and will do what she can to remedy the situation!

 

[Christine]

I work from home. I hear all the noises of the neighborhood all day. It's summer vacation and all the kids are out and about and noisy. Big deal. I tune it out by working and keeping busy. Frankly, I don't feel I have any right to tell people to keep the noise level down in their yards in the middle of the afternoon.

I get where you are coming from and I think in 99% of the cases, kids playing outside and running around all day are normal noises. You're correct in that it is not a big deal. I don't even need to tune those types of noises out, they don't bother me.

I guess I'm asking you to trust me that these particular noises are anything but normal kid noise levels and anyone who has come over to my house when the daycare kids are out has made a comment on it. I have even had someone tell me once that they hope it didn't adversely affect me if I ever wanted to sell my house. I think between the constant whistle last week and hearing my husband complain (who never complains) and having a 19 y/o college student who can sleep through anything in his Freshman dormroom complain sort of got me thinking again that this noise is not normal.

There have been times, over the 10 years, that she has had less noisy kids and, when that is the case, it doesn't bother me. She seems to get a new crew in every school year or every few years. There was one year a few years ago that was particularly bad and I remember really being bothered. It then dies down and becomes more tolerable. We seem to be in one of those bad years.

 

[almacdonald]

move.

 

[IDoDis]

I find it odd that everyone here is suggesting Christine buy new windows, buy a new fence, buy trees, buy bushes, etc. The neighbor is the one making money with her illegal nuisance, she should be the one offering to pay for some of these items. I wouldn't expect her to buy new windows, but she could go 50/50 on some of the suggested outdoor sound barriers.

I suggested the trees because the OP was looking for a solution while being careful not to offend her neighbor.


The Poplar trees are really super cheap and make a great screen! We bought ours (when we lived in a different house) the size of little twigs and planted them along a wall we shared with neighbors who were always in their backyard having parties. They were really nice neighbors that we liked, but felt like we couldn't get any privacy when we went in our backyard because they were always having get-togethers.

Check out this link on Lombardi Poplar Trees: http://www.cdr3.com/lombardy/


Within a few months those trees were already higher than the wall and by the next spring, they were probably 15 feet tall. Within another year they were 25 feet tall, and so on. They grew so fast we used to tell our young DD that we sprinkled magic growing powder on them. We had an instant fence screen (the trees also blocked out the really hot afternoon sun that came from the same direction), nice shade in the hottest part of the afternoon, so the grass grew better, and the trees made our yard more green. We were amazed at how fast they grew.

 

[Carly_Roach]

There have been times, over the 10 years, that she has had less noisy kids and, when that is the case, it doesn't bother me. She seems to get a new crew in every school year or every few years. There was one year a few years ago that was particularly bad and I remember really being bothered. It then dies down and becomes more tolerable. We seem to be in one of those bad years.

Well, think long and hard about this because if you've got other neighbors who are disturbed by the noise, now is the time to root the problem out once and for all.

People would say, "Well how can you get a child to shut up? You can tell them and tell them, but other than that, how can you get them to be quiet?" Here's a novel approach that I haven't seen offered here yet:

How about the daycare provider telling the parents of the loud child that they can no longer board their child at that provider's home? If the provider is in danger of losing her business over one or two loud children, then I'd think she'd want to weed out the ones who are threatening her livelihood.

Someone mentioned upthread about how this daycare has been around for 10 years. They've hinted that since no one's done anything about the daycare, there's some kind of implied permission for it to stay. However, we're not talking roses or decorative fences here. We're talking about one house on the block whose noise pollution is inhibiting everyone else's peaceful enjoyment of their homes. Similar to a garage band practicing on their electric guitars and drums all day long.

When you look at it that way, I believe the "implied permission defense" will probably go out the HOA's window.

I'd suggest you talk to your neighbor first and see if she'll drop the loud children who are causing the problems. If that doesn't work, get together with your other neighbors and see if any of them are experiencing the same problem but are afraid to say anything. If everyone else in your surrounding area is bothered by the noise, then there's quite a bit of weight behind all of you complaining to the HOA about the daycare center and they'll likely shut it down.

But if, after you've talked to your neighbors, it turns out to be just you who is bothered by it, then you're going to have to decide how you're going to handle having to live with that noise. Maybe it's time to think about moving?

 

[TwinsinCA]

OP I'm on your side. You have put up with this long enough. You shouldn't have to shut your windows and blast the TV just to drown out the noise while INSIDE your own house. I don't care if it is because of loud music, screaming kids, or a barking dog. I don't care if it is 4pm or 4am. People deserve some peace and quiet inside their own homes. And if people are so uncivilized that they can't control the noise that their family makes, THEY should be the ones to move to a farm somewhere. Not the people who are the good neighbors!

I hope you can resolve things with your neighbor. It is a shame that the HOA has turned a blind eye all this time. It is for reasons such as this that home daycares are forbidden in some areas in the first place!

 

[daughtersrus]

I suggested the trees because the OP was looking for a solution while being careful not to offend her neighbor.


The Poplar trees are really super cheap and make a great screen! We bought ours (when we lived in a different house) the size of little twigs and planted them along a wall we shared with neighbors who were always in their backyard having parties. They were really nice neighbors that we liked, but felt like we couldn't get any privacy when we went in our backyard because they were always having get-togethers.

Check out this link on Lombardi Poplar Trees: http://www.cdr3.com/lombardy/


Within a few months those trees were already higher than the wall and by the next spring, they were probably 15 feet tall. Within another year they were 25 feet tall, and so on. They grew so fast we used to tell our young DD that we sprinkled magic growing powder on them. We had an instant fence screen (the trees also blocked out the really hot afternoon sun that came from the same direction), nice shade in the hottest part of the afternoon, so the grass grew better, and the trees made our yard more green. We were amazed at how fast they grew.

Be sure to check with your village ordinances. Our village prohibits planting these trees because although they grow quickly, they also die quickly.

 

[Mau Loa Disney]

Hi Christine, I think you should talk with your neighbor...I would tell her everything you said here about it not really being bothersome until recent years and that you were thinking about getting signs because the parents dropping the kids off how been really loud lately in the pathway. Ask her if she thinks it will help since she knows the parents. It sounds like you have some positive history and if you dont go attacking her, You two may just come up with some ideas that will give you some peace & quiet. I think it is all in how you approach her. She may think you are ok with the noise level because if it was to loud you would say something. Good Luck

 

[scrapbookworm]

Make an audio tape or video tape of the noise in your house. Sit the recording device down in a room on that side of the house. Then walk outside with it. If you are video taping, I wouldn't necessarily point it towards the kids- it's just mainly to capture the noise level.

Go over to visit her during one of the scream-fests. I am on the fence about that one, b/c she is probably feeling frazzled by that time, but it would probably be the most effective. Just like people whose dogs who bark all.the.time, she has come to tune it out.

If she isn't very receptive of your constructive criticism, then have her listen to the audio.

If it still continues to be a problem, and you can't stand it any longer, you may have no choice but to go to your HOA. Just b/c it is occurring during waking hours does not mean that you have to listen to it. Thank goodness you don't work 2nd or 3rd shift!

If you give someone an inch, they'll take a mile. Just b/c she has been in business for 10 years does not exempt her from HOA rules. She may have started out small, but has obviously grown. Sometimes you reach the point of "the straw that broke the camel's bacl".

Is it much different than the people who complain on msg boards about their neighbors stealing their parking places or blocking their drive/mailbox b/c they have family visiting a lot, a teen who has their own car, etc? The noise level of her business is encroaching upon their property.

I don't get home from work until 5:45pm, so this particular situation might not bother me, but it would if I got home at 3:30. Every.single.day.

Good luck!

 

[Luv Bunnies]

It sounds to me like the kids are spending way too much time playing outside. They might be getting bored with the same old routine and that's why they are so noisy. I think the provider would do well to shake up the routine and have a combination of organized indoor and outdoor activities throughout the day. Just putting them outside to play seems rather lazy to me. (I work in a preschool classroom so I have lots of experience with small kids.)

As for the screaming, there's a lot the provider can do about it. The kid needs some serious behavior modification that can even work on 2 year olds. You tell the child that screaming outside is not allowed. The second the screaming starts, the child is removed from the play situation and taken inside for a brief timeout and told again that screaming is not allowed. Each and every time the child screams outside, repeat the procedure. He/she will get the idea that it's more fun to be outside and the screaming is causing the indoor timeouts. The parents need to continue the procedure at home. It really does work. As for the whistle, it's not allowed at daycare. The next time the child brings it in, it goes directly home with mom. No negotiations. Case closed.

I agree with having a cordial talk with the neighbor. Let her know you realize her numbers have increased but the noise has become an issue. Give her some of the suggestions posted in this thread (signage to be quiet on the walkway, etc.) and ask if there's anything else she can do to reduce the noise. If it was my business, I'd want to know if it was impacting anyone in the neighborhood and I would appreciate being approached in a non-confrontational way about providing solutions. Good luck!

 

[southernbohemian]

It sounds to me like the kids are spending way too much time playing outside. They might be getting bored with the same old routine and that's why they are so noisy. I think the provider would do well to shake up the routine and have a combination of organized indoor and outdoor activities throughout the day. Just putting them outside to play seems rather lazy to me. (I work in a preschool classroom so I have lots of experience with small kids.)

As a former preschool teacher I completely agree with the above. Especially if they are just running amuck outside for hours at a time and not even participating in activities. I know that preschools and daycares have vastly different philosphies, but kids get LOUD when they are bored. And I totally understand that it is probably just this group of kids - an entire group can be heavily influenced by just one kid - one loud kid creates lots of loud kids.

My suggestion:

The next time the kids are playing by your fence and being very loud, just peek over the fence and politely tell the owner, "Could you try to keep them a little quieter, please?" Then go back to whatever you were doing, even if the noise continues unabated (or gets quiet for about 2 seconds and returns to the normal loudness).

Then, once the kids are all home, bring over a dessert or something and ask for a chat. Have a nice friendly, neighborly chat, catch up on things. This will hopefully make sure that you are calm and relaxed and hopefully will be able to find the right words that won't upset either of you, which is sounds like you are afraid of. Once you've chatted, I would bring up the noise issue. Speak honestly and frankly, but without making demands. I would tell her about the idea of putting up signs on the walkway and see if she thinks that would be necessary, or could she just talk to the parents. I would tell her that it is so loud it is interrupting your life inside of your house - which is the real issue. Mention that you have noticed a big difference between the current group and previous years. If the lady is a good neighbor she will take action once she knows that she is creating a problem.

Good luck!

 

[lillygator]

so, not that you have one, but your family is ont he other side of the childcare now and your kid has the whistle or scream, and then you are screwed because of it.....

 

[PixieDustandEeyore]

The OP has clearly stated that the noise is loud enough that a noise complaint could be phoned into the police. This level of noise has no time limit its not a between 6pm and 6am kinda thing.

THe op has tried to express this noise is 1) Excessive and 2) So loud that a full blast tv, a white noise machine, and an AC can not block it out and 3) Neighbours, guests etc even say it is excessive.

OP i feel so bad for you I feel like you're typing to a brick wall. Just do your youtube thing to show everyone what you mean. I just read the whole thread and was like ei yi yi.. people don't get it.
And I thought there was no love on the transportation board.

Anyways my suggestion is to just talk to her.. most people (cough cough) are nice and don't want to offend people or are looking for an argument! So since she is doing illegal to the HOA stuff I'm sure she'll be nice since you seem to state that she doesn't seem abrasive.

Lots of luck!!!
I see you've been a member for 11 years thats awhile! At least you were prepared for the flames and you probably brought your flameproof suit with you

 

[NHdisneylover]

I would choose ONE issue that is bothering you the most to talk about with your neighbor now. After it is resolved AND you have told her how much you appreciate the resolution AND you have a let a little time pass, and maybe even paid her a just plain friendly visit or two then bring up the second issue.

If it were me I would go with the loud parents in the AM. I would NEVER complain about the kids coming up to the deck to try to talk to you. I just don't see anything legitimate in complaining about that and if you complain about petty things then it makes it less likely that someone will take the valid complaints seriously.

I would go over and tell her you are not upset with her AT ALL but that you are getting frustrated with some of the parents. Tell her about the noise that they make in the mornings and when they have "discussions" with their kids. Let her know that you realize they are probably forgetting that this is a residential area and just thinking about the daycare but that you really want to be able to sleep and have guests sleep. Maybe even tell her that you have hesitated to say anything thinking it was just you being extra sensitive until a guests in your home was woken up this morning and complained about the noise as well. Ask her what SHE thinks the best thing to do is. Would she like you to post some signs, or would her parents be offended by this and just ignore them? Would she like you to write and copy a letter that she can give to the parents asking them to be mindful of the noise? Would she rather just talk to parents herself. Tell her you want to figure out a way to keep the noise level down without offending parents and possibly running of her business. This makes the two of you a team working together to solve an issue created by the parents and is much more likely to get results.

For the afternoons, I would cope with it for now (in fact the 3 grandchildren of the neighbors next door to me are back out this summer and shrieking non stop from about 9 am until about 8 or 9 pm every day-loud enough to be much worse than the sounds of a concrete building being demolished three houses down--so I get it). The whistle was just a one day thing. Hopefully she has told the parents not to send that toy again. If it comes back I think you could say something that day. Just nicely look over the fence and say that the whistle is really loud and could they please not allow it. But I think the loud kids' voices you will just have to do your best to ignore and hope that the batch of kids next year is better. I agree that it sounds like she is having them spend far too much unstructured time out of doors, but that is really not your place to dictate.

Once things have settled down in the mornings and you have made some efforts to be friendly when not complaining about the kids, I think you could nicely broach the issue of the screeching (but you cannot demand anything). I would sympathetically tell her that I feel so badly for her dealing with such loud kids this year. "Gosh, it is so loud at our house sometimes it drives ME batty--I don't know how you do it being in the thick of it. I am so impressed you can keep your calm. I bet you are counting the days until they outgrow it or move into another daycare. I don't remember it ever being so loud at your place before. If you ever want to crack down on them or get the parents involved in keeping them quiet you can feel free to use me as the grumpy lady next door as an excuse. LOL"

Secondly, there is not much your HOA can do. They know about this daycare as they have had a previous complaint about it. By choosing not to do anything about the complaint and by turning their heads and allowing the daycare to exist for 10 years, they have given tacit approval for it to be there. The neighbor would have a very, very strong case against the HOA if they tried to shut her down now for violating HOA rules.

I was going to post this same thing. My in laws were on the HOA for a while in their neighborhood. Someone was working doing autobody repair out of their garage and had done so for years in violation of the HOA. New neighbors tried to have it shut down. I don't recall if it went to court or just mediation but the resolution was that the HOA had been aware of the business (I think at one point a letter had been sent asking them to refrain from having tow trucks delivery of cars after dark as the lights on the big trucks were bothering the neighbors) and not put a stop to it and therefore it had to be considered that the HOA approved and the business was "grandfathered" in. I think this case could easily go the same way (and cost the HOA lots of money trying to shut it down in the meantime).

 

[polkadotsuitcase]

Christine, I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but wanted to say from what I've read of your responses, you sound very even-keel and that you want to do the "right" thing -- while (rightly) enjoying your own home. Hope everything works out smoothly for you and your neighbor, and that you enjoy a good relationship -- and peace in your home! -- when all is said and done.

 

[kaytieeldr]

So, let me understand this...

She has been there for 10 years.

When it was convenient for you, you used her daycare.

All the kids are gone by 6pm, leaving you the entire evening to relax.

Without reading further, where I'm sure the OP addresses this - she did state in the original post that she and her husband are normally out of the house by 5:30 AM. Even if they sleep until 5 (unlikely; 4 seems more reasonable to get out of the house by their time), eight hours of sleep mean they'd be in bed by 9. Not much of an "entire evening" between 6 and 9; less of one if they need to get to sleep earlier.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Frankly, I don't see kid-related noise that goes away by 6pm to be an issue.

When it only gives the homeowner (OP) two hours of peaceful use of her own property, it's an issue. Remember, she can hear the screeching and the whistle INSIDE the house as well; and she has no privacy on her deck while the daycare is in operation.

 

[DISdreamin']

Wow - I'd hate to live next to that day in and day out, OP! We live in a neighborhood where the houses are close, but having screaming kids forcing us indoors would be the pits.

I'm curious whether your town/county/city/whatever requires any kind of permit for a facility like the one next door to you. It would seem some kind of variance or permit might be required, depending on your locale.

Personally, I'm not sure what I'd do. It's definitely a tough situation, and I can honestly see both sides of it pretty clearly. and good luck figuring out how to handle this.

 

[sbell111]

When it only gives the homeowner (OP) two hours of peaceful use of her own property, it's an issue. Remember, she can hear the screeching and the whistle INSIDE the house as well; and she has no privacy on her deck while the daycare is in operation.

Whether it is a barking dog or a screaching kid, as long as it stops at a reasonable hour, I don't see the issue.

Also, in response to another poster, I seriously doubt that the police would be interested in a call complaining about loud children at that time of day.