HOA Boards Strike Again...

[MillauFr]

Being part of an HOA is a choice and comes with compromise. You lose certain liberties in exchange for the benefit of certain standards. A rule may sound silly but doesn’t make it ok to ignore. Either work it out with the others or abide.

I wonder if Ben Franklin who made the quote below would buy in a HOA development?

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

[Genie+]

I wonder if Ben Franklin who made the quote below would buy in a HOA development?

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Isn’t being able to choose to be part of an HOA, or not, a liberty?

Not having a choice to do it would be removing a bigger liberty.

 

[MillauFr]

Isn’t being able to choose to be part of an HOA, or not, a liberty?

Not having a choice to do it would be removing a bigger liberty.

If I wanted to give up liberty I would move to a communist country. We shouldn't allow the local pollical commissar to have any power at all.

 

[sam_gordon]

If I wanted to give up liberty I would move to a communist country. We shouldn't allow the local pollical commissar to have any power at all.

You said they don't have any power though. Can't make up your mind?

 

[MillauFr]

Isn’t being able to choose to be part of an HOA, or not, a liberty?

Not having a choice to do it would be removing a bigger liberty.

Even worse many of the HOAs inside the city limits Seattle still have on their property deeds language that restrict ownership to whites and Christians. These places are evil and must be stopped at all costs.

 

[MillauFr]

You said they don't have any power though. Can't make up your mind?

The napoleons that are on the board act like they have real power though. What happens when they want to enforce one of the clauses in the deed that restrict jews and people from non-white ethnic groups from owning?

 

[MillauFr]

You said they don't have any power though. Can't make up your mind?

If you buy a house in the Blue Ridge neighborhood HOA in Seattle this is still on your deed...

 

[Genie+]

If I wanted to give up liberty I would move to a communist country. We shouldn't allow the local pollical commissar to have any power at all.

I guess people could choose to live lawless, and band together in one region. Most people enjoy the civility of partaking in our structured society. The major benefit is knowing what to expect, sharing the rules and having pathways to change. The unstructured? What does anyone do in response to unjust? Who decides whether you can wack someone in the head or not. Band together to prevent getting whacked on your own head. Be stronger or you outnumber those you don’t like? Dump them and their stuff out in the desert. There’s little recourse, except maybe taking it out on their little cousins. That’s a large swing to go from liberty right over to communism. The opposite of liberty is anarchy, where you don’t have the freedom to enjoy civility.

 

[MillauFr]

I guess people could choose to live lawless, and band together in one region. Most people enjoy the civility of partaking in our structured society. The major benefit is knowing what to expect, sharing the rules and having pathways to change. The unstructured? What does anyone do in response to unjust? Who decides whether you can wack someone in the head or not. Band together to prevent getting whacked on your own head. Be stronger or you outnumber those you don’t like? Dump them and their stuff out in the desert. There’s little recourse, except maybe taking it out on their little cousins. That’s a large swing to go from liberty right over to communism. The opposite of liberty is anarchy, where you don’t have the freedom to enjoy civility.

And we have a local government to provide public safety services. Amateurs on a HOA board don't have the training or resources to provide them. That is why you hear about so many problems with them. When you have medical issues you hire a professional. When you need work done on your house you hire a professional. But when you need local governance you get amateurs to do it? Why not let the professionals do it?

 

[Genie+]

And we have a local government to provide public safety services. Amateurs on a HOA board don't have the training or resources to provide them. That is why you hear about so many problems with them. When you have medical issues you hire a professional. When you need work done on your house you hire a professional. But when you need local governance you get amateurs to do it? Why not let the professionals do it?

But wouldn’t it be taking away liberty to say HOA can’t exist. People decide if they want to enter that kind of contract or not. They have to weigh the risks, pros and cons. We hear HOA horror stories all the time but we don’t hear from the not stubborn personalities that have no issues, or very little issue, with their HOA. They knew the +/- going in and accepted it. For the more common or impactful faults of HOAs, many states have already put some consumer protections on the books.

Mandatory licensing sounds like micromanaging, a step away from freedom and more opportunity for grifters.

 

[sam_gordon]

The napoleons that are on the board act like they have real power though. What happens when they want to enforce one of the clauses in the deed that restrict jews and people from non-white ethnic groups from owning?

If you buy a house in the Blue Ridge neighborhood HOA in Seattle this is still on your deed...

View attachment 892458

Since these are both related, I'm just responding to them both.

I'd say those clauses are illegal and wouldn't hold up in court.

Since your image is even yellowed, how old is this piece of paper?

 

[Genie+]

I don’t think the answer to HOAs is licensing, it’s better law-making upstream to cover what types and how much power HOAs can hold. What exactly is to be taught for licensing being there’s so many different scenarios and individual details across HOAs.

 

[MillauFr]

I don’t think the answer to HOAs is licensing, it’s better law-making upstream to cover what types and how much power HOAs can hold. What exactly is to be taught for licensing being there’s so many different scenarios and individual details across HOAs.

On that we agree.

 

[Travel60]

I am on the board of the HOA where we have a seasonal home on a large lake. The development is 15 years old and has lots from about 4 to 20 acres. We have quite strict rules regarding style of house, materials that can be used, permitted colors, and cutting of trees. We have a lot of rules directed at not allowing one neighbor to encroach on another's enjoyment. We can levy fines (only once that I recall) and put a lien on a property if they don't pay assessments (also done once). Those of us who bought there, especially in the beginning, bought exactly for this reason. We didn't want a "surburban neighborhood on the lake". If you don't like these rules, buy somewhere else. The CCRs are provided by realtors and available online. No surprises.

We have over 500 acres of property, including over 5 miles of private roads and 4 structures, large fields and trails and boat docks for the interior lots that we have to maintain. This is not cheap. People grumble but seem to understand.

The 6 person board serves 3 year terms such that 2 positions are up for voting every year. We BEG people to run. We each put in 20+ hours a month - the president and treasurer more like 30+. This has been a bad year for a few reasons and more grumbling than usual. Our president has about had it and plans to tell people to put up or shut up. If you don't like what's happening, run for election. Learn what's involved and put in the time.

On the other hand, our primary home is in a neighborhood about 40 years old. No HOA. Most people keep up their homes and lots but a few (including one next to me) look like slums. House needs re-siding, porch needs painting. Landscaping is either dead or out of control. Driveway is cracking, trash cans all over where they start a project and never finish. I WISH there was an HOA!

 

[DCLMP]

I guess he mistakenly thought he lived in America where we have freedom instead of having to kowtow to the local political commissar.

They drive around all day looking for things to fine you for. God forbid you go on vacation and the weeds grow while you’re gone. My neighbour cut his tree down and got fined for having a stump in his yard. Unfortunately most of the communities in AZ have HOA’s. This story does not surprise me all. The city maintains all the common areas. They really serve no purpose. Everyone here hates them.

 

[ronandannette]

In my case, I was purchasing a bank owned house (foreclosure) As I mention prior, it is the seller responsibility to provide the document s (which they get from the HOA) but seeing as it was a national bank, they had no clue. I found the documents myself and read them before closing As you mentioned, they are filed with the county and readily available f one knows how to look.

I have no patience for homeowners who are surprised by what the HOA docs say.

I felt plenty sorry for myself, when it happened to me. Even after all due diligence, including a professional review of the Condo Bylaws, I found myself in breach of a MAJOR amendment that had apparently been made mid-year. The seller was a very elderly lady who didn’t keep up with the notices and her realtor and lawyer hadn’t pulled new documents, just provides the ones that were provided to her after the last general meeting. None of us knew, or had any reason to suspect. We ended up obtaining an exemption, but it just about got ugly.

 

[DCLMP]

But wouldn’t it be taking away liberty to say HOA can’t exist. People decide if they want to enter that kind of contract or not. They have to weigh the risks, pros and cons. We hear HOA horror stories all the time but we don’t hear from the not stubborn personalities that have no issues, or very little issue, with their HOA. They knew the +/- going in and accepted it. For the more common or impactful faults of HOAs, many states have already put some consumer protections on the books.

Mandatory licensing sounds like micromanaging, a step away from freedom and more opportunity for grifters.

We have lived in our house 25 years and our HOA has changed multiple times with multiple rate changes. You won't have issues with them as long as you don't accidentally leave a box sitting on your driveway behind a parked car that they would have had to walk onto your property to see. Yes we got a notice for that.

In AZ you would have to live in a rural area or older community to avoid an HOA. It's an area that has exploded in growth in the last 15 years and with new communities comes HOA's. I'm very familiar with the community in the OP's article. It's funny because my clients that live there always complain about the HOA.

 

[longboard55]

I worked in an office with a large HOA company in the same building. I asked the girls what they do all day because they always looked stressed. Basically all day the take calls from homeowners complaining about something, usually a neighbor. So basically you are paying to avoid approaching your neighbor face to face and hearing their side.

 

[china mom]

I lived in a municipality of 55,000 residents. No HOA but a robust city code enforcement division. I was never actually fined for anything but I did get a violation notice for a chipped piece of siding on the side of my house once (about 1x2 inches, near the foundation).

The original City Code said that you had to get permission to change the color of your house but had to choose from one of the three approved shades of gray. The haven't enforced that in decades and houses are all sorts of colors now

Not a good photo - it is much brighter in person but these folks went with mint green with dark green shutters.


We also have pepto bismal pink.

The neighborhood I live in now has a very benign HOA but there isn't really much for them to do as most homeowners in the neighborhood keep their houses up and comply with the covenants.

 

[TippyThomas]

I worked in an office with a large HOA company in the same building. I asked the girls what they do all day because they always looked stressed. Basically all day the take calls from homeowners complaining about something, usually a neighbor. So basically you are paying to avoid approaching your neighbor face to face and hearing their side.

So, people spend the day hitting the report button on all their neighbors?