HOA Boards Strike Again...

[robinb]

Like others, I'm not sure why he doesn't work with the HOA and screen the cooler appropriately. Sure, it's a PITB but so is fighting with the HOA.

 

[china mom]

This isn't as clear as "you signed up for it". Many HOA's won't even provide a full copy of the rules until you move in, well after closing date. HOA boards can also usually change the rules on a whim without a vote from the community. Those boards will also pick and choose when to enforce rules to the letter vs let things slide based on their friends.

I'm personally against HOAs for single family homes. In addition to the above issues, towns are more often pushing their responsibilities like snow removal and road maintenance on to HOAs so they can free up room in the budget. This gives HOAs more power to enforce rules that aren't shared with most buyers up front and can be quickly changed and arbitrarily enforced. If I buy a single family home, I will be avoiding them if I have a choice.

In my state, the seller/ seller agent is required to provide the HOA docs at least ten days prior to closing and the buyer has the option of getting out of the contract if they do not want to abide by the HOA rules.

Furthermore, it is very difficult to change most HOA rules. It depends on the covenants but most call for a huge majority of the homes to agree. My neighborhood requires 75% of all homes, not just 75% of the vote to change a bylaw.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Like I said, it has been my experience that HOAs that follow their bylaws do far better than those that venture into areas that the developer that build their project never intended them to have control over. There is a big area of HOA controlled homes near me, all controlled by different HOAs, and most are detached houses where the HOA is responsible for all the front yard landscaping and upkeep of the FRONT of the house, only. They pay to keep the paint nice, etc.
One has a restriction that you have to have your cars in the garage after 8 pm. No cars are allowed in the driveway or the street after 8 pm. That is all disclosed before you buy a home there. For the most part residents like it. Only issue I am aware of was when a crime in the area and the Police wanted to set up an undercover stake out 24 hours a day, but couldn't because their vehicle would have been the only car on the street between 8 pm and 6 am.

In your comment about multiple HOAs you seem to be talking about maintenance provided homes which I made reference to in my comment.

And for my particular neighborhood it's still developer controlled and is actually the opposite in that the developer wants to maintain more control (such as not allowing people to have their own sports courts in their backyards) than the HOA board cares about. Most of what I've seen when it's talking about rogue HOAs in my area are ones that weren't really from a developer who started with an HOA and then gave up control. It's often in my area existing homes that joined up to form an HOA at some point or newer areas that are too small for a developer and those homes join together if they choose to to make an HOA.

As far as your police example that isn't related to HOAs in the grand scheme. Police, especially when doing something undercover, or a long-term surveillance have to look at the area first to learn what will and won't stick out. In your example cars don't park overnight on the street (which could be a city rule in other places, just so happens to be an HOA one there) in another neighborhood it's a particular type of car that stands out like a sore thumb (either being too low end or too high end), in another the neighbors all seem to know so and so's car so a random car sticks out, etc. Not going to argue about it though.

 

[kdonnel]

Many HOA's won't even provide a full copy of the rules until you move in, well after closing date.

HOA rules are a public record legal document filed with the county, attached to the land.

If I was buying a home and the HOA was not forthcoming with the documents prior to closing, despite knowing I could access the documents through the county myself, I would see that as a red flag and look at other properties.

 

[tvguy]

In your comment about multiple HOAs you seem to be talking about maintenance provided homes which I made reference to in my comment.

And for my particular neighborhood it's still developer controlled and is actually the opposite in that the developer wants to maintain more control (such as not allowing people to have their own sports courts in their backyards) than the HOA board cares about. Most of what I've seen when it's talking about rogue HOAs in my area are ones that weren't really from a developer who started with an HOA and then gave up control. It's often in my area existing homes that joined up to form an HOA at some point or newer areas that are too small for a developer and those homes join together if they choose to to make an HOA.

As far as your police example that isn't related to HOAs in the grand scheme. Police, especially when doing something undercover, or a long-term surveillance have to look at the area first to learn what will and won't stick out. In your example cars don't park overnight on the street (which could be a city rule in other places, just so happens to be an HOA one there) in another neighborhood it's a particular type of car that stands out like a sore thumb (either being too low end or too high end), in another the neighbors all seem to know so and so's car so a random car sticks out, etc. Not going to argue about it though.

Last I heard this one subdivision in the County with this restriction which is on the street AND in driveways. All cars have to be in garages.

 

[china mom]

HOA rules are a public record legal document filed with the county, attached to the land.

If I was buying a home and the HOA was not forthcoming with the documents prior to closing, despite knowing I could access the documents through the county myself, I would see that as a red flag and look at other properties.

In my case, I was purchasing a bank owned house (foreclosure) As I mention prior, it is the seller responsibility to provide the document s (which they get from the HOA) but seeing as it was a national bank, they had no clue. I found the documents myself and read them before closing As you mentioned, they are filed with the county and readily available f one knows how to look.

I have no patience for homeowners who are surprised by what the HOA docs say.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Last I heard this one subdivision in the County with this restriction which is on the street AND in driveways. All cars have to be in garages.

Like I said I'm not going to argue that point and go back and forth on it, I'm just pointing out it's not HOA specific in the grand scheme.

 

[jimmymc]

It seems that most of these comments are pro-HOA, but the rules they are pointing out seem insane to me. An extra $120 fee for a new pickleball court with no warning, not parking in your own driveway after 8 pm, and not being allowed to leave a cooler on the side of your house are ridiculous rules to someone who has never lived in an HOA.

It is interesting to hear from people who like theirs, since many stories you read online about them are negative.

 

[sam_gordon]

Last I heard this one subdivision in the County with this restriction which is on the street AND in driveways. All cars have to be in garages.

Personally, I don't like that restriction. I would only hope if/when I bought into a neighborhood like that I would envision having kids with cars (or even people over for a party).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

An extra $120 fee for a new pickleball court with no warning

There was a warning...it was in the HOA meeting that few attended (that includes us who didn't attend it) two months prior to the notice . It's just that the first time many homeowners knew about it was with the yearly HOA dues letter, the reason most of us hadn't heard about it was because we failed to attend the meeting and then read the minutes that are put up and available for viewing on eNeighbors. The rankling that happened is because the homeowners didn't get a say because it was under the threshold for a vote but it is a change that did a value added to the neighborhood.

I'm only slightly pro-HOA here because there are terrible HOAs out there. But many people are anti-HOA based on principle and don't really care if a particular HOA isn't terrible. And when you hear the stories and read the articles there's quite a bit that falls on the homeowner and it's hard to be totally sympathetic all the time on that. In this case with the guy with the water bottle he's doing it strictly on principle and it's not going to really go against someone's principle to put the cooler behind something. Hard to have sympathy on someone who is thinking they are fighting the good fight but just looks like a jerk instead.

 

[Christine]

Personally, I don't like that restriction. I would only hope if/when I bought into a neighborhood like that I would envision having kids with cars (or even people over for a party).

My HOA has the no-cars-parked-on-the-street-or-driveway-overnight rule. This is probably the one rule that they don't enforce and it never has been enforced. I have a 2-car garage with, at times, owning 4 cars. I do use my garage for parking 2 cars versus being a hoarder, lol, but the other two cars are either in my driveway or on the street overnight.

I am fortunately that my neighborhood has really wide streets, but I've been through a few where people park their cars on the curb and you can hardly get thorough the neighborhood because the streets are so narrow and certainly 2 cars cannot pass at all. The benefit is that it does keep speeders under control.

 

[sam_gordon]

My HOA has the no-cars-parked-on-the-street-or-driveway-overnight rule. This is probably the one rule that they don't enforce and it never has been enforced. I have a 2-car garage with, at times, owning 4 cars. I do use my garage for parking 2 cars versus being a hoarder, lol, but the other two cars are either in my driveway or on the street overnight.

I am fortunately that my neighborhood has really wide streets, but I've been through a few where people park their cars on the curb and you can hardly get thorough the neighborhood because the streets are so narrow and certainly 2 cars cannot pass at all. The benefit is that it does keep speeders under control.

Yea, we can't park on the street overnight (shouldn't), but fortunately nothing about parking in the driveway. We had two teens with cars living in the house at the same time, fortunately our neighbors let us use their driveway to the back of their house. I mean, how do families do it? Unless there's good public transportation nearby maybe?

When we host Thanksgiving, in addition to our cars (up to four), we could have four other cars, and yes, people could stick around until 9 or 10 o'clock. Then what? Can't park in the driveway or on the street, so the "party" needs to end at 8p? Sorry, not for us.

 

[tvguy]

Personally, I don't like that restriction. I would only hope if/when I bought into a neighborhood like that I would envision having kids with cars (or even people over for a party).

I am in total agreement with you. I was shocked when that subdivision was built with those restrictions. At one point when both my kids were driving, we had 5 cars. My wife's and mine in the garage, the kids in the driveway, and our "family" car parked on the street. That still left two on street parking spots on the street in front of my house.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Explain to me why would someone want to live in one of these "communities"?

To beat the heat, an Arizona man offers free water. His HOA is fining him.​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/09/04/hoa-free-water-fine-arizona/

Because most of them are not like that. And in fact, in areas with no HOA where muni codes are weak, an HOA prevents



From being your next door neighbor.

 

[MillauFr]

Because most of them are not like that. And in fact, in areas with no HOA where muni codes are weak, an HOA prevents

View attachment 892120

From being your next door neighbor.

How would an HOA prevent that? What could they actually do that person? Send them nastygrams and sue? An HOA board has far fewer resources and leverage that a city would.

 

[sam_gordon]

I guess he mistakenly thought he lived in America where we have freedom instead of having to kowtow to the local political commissar.

How would an HOA prevent that? What could they actually do that person? Send them nastygrams and sue? An HOA board has far fewer resources and leverage that a city would.

Which is it? They have power to take "freedom" away or they can't do anything?

 

[MillauFr]

Which is it? They have power to take "freedom" away or they can't do anything?

Both. You have the freedom unless the person you are upsetting has money and resources to eliminate your freedoms.

 

[SteveH]

This isn't as clear as "you signed up for it". Many HOA's won't even provide a full copy of the rules until you move in, well after closing date. HOA boards can also usually change the rules on a whim without a vote from the community.

This really depends on the State rules. In our area the Title companies are responsible to give the CC&Rs as well as basic information. The seller and their agent are required to list that our development has an HOA but that's about all. I was on the board when we 1st started after the developer and many 2nd buyers tried to pull that, each time we could show them the title company had received the information.

Furthermore, it is very difficult to change most HOA rules. It depends on the covenants but most call for a huge majority of the homes to agree. My neighborhood requires 75% of all homes, not just 75% of the vote to change a bylaw.

Having been on the 1st board we put in a super super majority too as well as requirements for proper notifications being done via mail and post marked at least 30 days before a vote. I loved being the spoiler when a husband/wife on the board were trying to push through changes but didn't follow that simple rule, they dropped off notices at homes 5 days before and were going to adopt the new rules. Things came crashing down on them.

Last I heard this one subdivision in the County with this restriction which is on the street AND in driveways. All cars have to be in garages.

When in California the HOA we lived in had a simple rule, garages are for cars. Before you could park, overnight in the driveway or street, two vehicles had to be in the garage, then cars parked in the drive way and finally in the street. While it was a bit much, I can see the rational now. I have neighbors with tons of boxes in their garage and they get upset when their cars get broken into and expect the HOA to do something. Zero sympathy. Thankfully the City requires the vehicles to be operable, moved every 2 weeks and fully licensed, so we got the junkers out finally.

 

[Kestryl]

We specifically looked for houses that were not in HOAs. Even if an HOA is currently “good,” I can’t control neighbor turnover that would shift an HOA into the restrictive territory.

One of my neighbors has a bright turquoise door and it’s lovely. I’d be totally fine with a hot pink door. I’m not into the uniform house look.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Thankfully the City requires the vehicles to be operable

Our city has a 48 hour ordinance for vehicles parked on the street, it has to be moved every 48 hours. Really it's intended for the most part to cut down on the number of inoperable vehicles (which is against the ordinances as well), sure enforcement in the actual neighborhoods is mostly left up to neighbors calling in to report as it's not practical for the police to do patrols on all of the streets but yeah that's really what it's about.

The other part is during winter with snow removal and street treatments, vehicles on the street cause problems for that. They typically request when it's expected to be enough bad weather to please park if you can on the driveway or garage leaving the street cleared.

For us our HOA does a rule about keeping your garage door closed but that is mostly an anti-theft rule. In the insurance industry that would be called an attractive nuisance. Speaking to your comment about cars getting broken into it's the number one petty theft in our county, people are constantly posting ring camera videos of people coming by testing to see if the cars are unlocked. Majority will just go for unlocked cars but we've also had unfortunately some very big vehicle breakins mostly at apartment complexes where the theft rings don't care and just break through all the windows. In our neighborhood it's been many years since someone has posted about a vehicle being riffled through due to it being on the street or the driveway but it's happened a lot this year in nearby neighborhoods and the HOA put out a warning. Our neighbor next door leaves his garage doors open almost constantly and the new neighbors across the street who are from out of state seem to as well. Not something I'm going to call into the HOA about but yeah.