Hillary Supporters unite part 2; no bashing please

[akhenaten]

I loved Bill and still do in spite of everything. I think he did a lot of good. Was he perfect? Certainly not but I appreciated a lot.

However, it's interesting that when asked about Hillary you mention Bill first. Hillary is not Bill! I would hate it if people assumed I was the same as my DH. He's a good guy but a polar opposite of me in so many respects.

You have a good point.......
I would say that maybe I did that because I "met" hillary thru Bill and maybe because this is the Hillary thread and I would not want to attack her here (although I do think that I mentioned my misgivings about her in a previous post).

I do prefer Obama...but as I said if Hillary got the nom I would have re-evaluated my feelings about her ......

 

[LuvDuke]

That's what most people recalled about that era in US history... until a few months ago. Then most everyone conveniently forgot.

No one forgot about, but it seems some think Bill is running now and not Hillary.

And if Hillary is going to claim all the good, she has to take responsibility for the bad.

That's the point.

 

[Laura]

However, it's interesting that when asked about Hillary you mention Bill first. Hillary is not Bill! I would hate it if people assumed I was the same as my DH. He's a good guy but a polar opposite of me in so many respects.

Since Hillary is campaigning based partly on her experience in Bill's administration, I think it's fair to use criticism of him in relation to her. And frankly, I have to admit a fair number of Democrats voted for Hillary because they think she will be like Bill.

 

[Planogirl]

Since Hillary is campaigning based partly on her experience in Bill's administration, I think it's fair to use criticism of him in relation to her. And frankly, I have to admit a fair number of Democrats voted for Hillary because they think she will be like Bill.

And I believe that some voted against Hillary because they believe she will be like Bill.

I guess that I liken it to a vice-President or cabinet member. Were they involved in an administration and should that come into question? I would say yes but not to a large degree. I liked Gore too and I very much considered him his own person.

 

[deelam]

I loved Bill and still do in spite of everything. I think he did a lot of good. Was he perfect? Certainly not but I appreciated a lot.

However, it's interesting that when asked about Hillary you mention Bill first. Hillary is not Bill! I would hate it if people assumed I was the same as my DH. He's a good guy but a polar opposite of me in so many respects.

I also find it interesting that people fault Hillary for Bill's actions.

Nafta was a mistake, many supported this at the time. I believe Hillary was a bit critical of it. Al Gore was pretty intense about it. The thing is, it didn't work and I believe Hillary will fix it.

 

[MAKmom]

Totally off-topic, but I just wanted to say that I LOVE your scrolling tag!

Mary

Your bumping tag looks great on you too

 

[kinntj]

I also find it interesting that people fault Hillary for Bill's actions.

Nafta was a mistake, many supported this at the time. I believe Hillary was a bit critical of it. Al Gore was pretty intense about it. The thing is, it didn't work and I believe Hillary will fix it.

Yes, Hillary has said that NAFTA was to reworked. She said that mistakes can happen and we need to fix them. Not exactly quoted.

I read something recently in a polical magazine about Obama and Rezko. That's all I'll say about that. Google is good. He rubs elbows with some shady characters himself. I will vote for him, because he distances himself from them after awhile, but I'm just saying he's NO different than Hillary when it comes to politics.

 

[deelam]

If the Barry & Hillary threads get closed they can not be started again so we really should take the war to the OB thread Since I do not want to be the one to get this closed I have to use ignore.

Good idea! We can respond to them on their own thread.

 

[deelam]

Yes, Hillary has said that NAFTA was to reworked. She said that mistakes can happen and we need to fix them. Not exactly quoted.

I read something recently in a polical magazine about Obama and Rezko. That's all I'll say about that. Google is good. He rubs elbows with some shady characters himself. I will vote for him, because he distances himself from them after awhile, but I'm just saying he's NO different than Hillary when it comes to politics.

His shady characters are just too much for me.
He will not get my vote.

 

["Got Disney"]

Double post see below.

 

["Got Disney"]

No one forgot about, but it seems some think Bill is running now and not Hillary.

And if Hillary is going to claim all the good, she has to take responsibility for the bad.

That's the point.

I like many were first drawn to her because of Bill....but after we started listening to her that all changed. I dont even hear Bill anymore. It is just her. She is her own woman with her own voice. She has taken responsibility for her bad. She even said herself that she was stupid for saying what she said with Bosnia....

But all 3 candidates have to take responsibility for all and everything they do wrong. They are ALL politicians....and as such will do as politicians do. And no matter how many times they all talk about Hope and Change and experience and I'm better than the candidate before you....that is just all talk as all politicians do to get elected...we wont really see what they are made of till they are sitting in the White House...than and only than can we say they are truly Commander and chiefs.

Dont forget actions always speek louder than words....

 

[DISUNC]

Democrats Should Be More Democratic

There was unfortunate symbolism in Barack Obama's choice of Des Moines as the place to celebrate his delegate milestone on the day of the Kentucky and Oregon primaries. The Iowa caucuses were the first contest of the nominating process, and Obama's success in them launched his campaign into the big time. But they were also the start of a deeply undemocratic process.

The caucuses produced no vote count. There were no secret ballots -- but instead a public two-hour tussle that disenfranchised many parents of small children, shift workers and those who couldn't drive in the dark. Certain caucus-goers enjoyed several times the clout of others -- it depended on where they lived. The result was not an election of delegates but of "delegate equivalents," a term with an Orwellian ring.

Obama didn't make these rules, and one can't begrudge him for playing the game so well. But at the end of the day, his resounding "victory" was the product of having a crack team of activists take advantage of a crazy system.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/democrats_should_be_more_democ.html

 

[punkin]

Obama didn't make these rules, and one can't begrudge him for playing the game so well. But at the end of the day, his resounding "victory" was the product of having a crack team of activists take advantage of a crazy system.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/democrats_should_be_more_democ.html

Hillary had the advantage and could have taken advantage as well. She did not and I blame her for it. She knew the rules as well as he did. The problem for Obama and Democratic hopes for the Presidency (should he get the nom) is that these results cannot be replicated in the general election.

 

[MAKmom]

Have a great Holiday everyone. I'm going to the Jersey Shore for 4 days without any Internet. I will have DD's I Touch so maybe I'll pick up a WiFi area if I get Lucky.

CHOW!

 

[deelam]

The process has been very flawed. Due to caucuses, many people had no say in who the nominee will be. The general election will be a winner take all, not good for Obama. The perfect canidate is showing cracks with weak showings in important states. Plus, the media is starting to turn on him by questioning his ability to win. This is just the beginning.

I heard one news person state that she believes Hillary will take the issue of Fla/MI to the supreme court as a civil rights issue. She is a fighter, and I will feel better knowing Clinton, with her work ethic, became our president.

 

[kinntj]

Hillary had the advantage and could have taken advantage as well. She did not and I blame her for it. She knew the rules as well as he did. The problem for Obama and Democratic hopes for the Presidency (should he get the nom) is that these results cannot be replicated in the general election.

Nope, they can't be duplicated. For whatever reason, the people that voted for Hillary and where she won polled that Obama was out of touch with them. How in the world can he be in touch by November? Say he's sorry and that he didn't mean they cling to their guns and religion.

Hillary started her momentum too late and the way things are going is her fault. I do have to admit that I liked that she wanted all the states to vote and make a case to the SD's to get her nominated. I guess I would be a little disappointed if she took it further than June 4th. There's a time you just have to stop fighting and get out and give time to the people to heal and get the GE on it's way. I don't like that...not one bit really and I really wanted her to be the nominee, but it gets tiring and makes her look for foolish.

One thing is that the whole democratic voting in the primaries has to change.

 

[punkin]

Have a great Holiday everyone. I'm going to the Jersey Shore for 4 days without any Internet. I will have DD's I Touch so maybe I'll pick up a WiFi area if I get Lucky.

CHOW!

Have fun. Wish I was going with you. Ciao.

I heard one news person state that she believes Hillary will take the issue of Fla/MI to the supreme court as a civil rights issue. She is a fighter, and I will feel better knowing Clinton, with her work ethic, became our president.

I hope she won't. It's a losing case. The party is a private entity and they can run their primaries/caucuses any way they see fit. There is no constitutional guarantee of due process. It would be just as legal to pick candidates in smoke filled rooms, which is how the process used to work. I do hope she takes the fight to the convention or at least until Obama has the number of delegates he needs to win publicly pledged.

I guess I would be a little disappointed if she took it further than June 4th. There's a time you just have to stop fighting and get out and give time to the people to heal and get the GE on it's way.

Yes, but not June 4th necessarily. I think it can be taken to the convention unless and until Obama has the winning number of votes, I think she should fight. Now that may happen by June 4th. I don't know. The more she fights, the better I like her. She is exactly what we need for President.

 

[deelam]

Have a great Holiday everyone. I'm going to the Jersey Shore for 4 days without any Internet. I will have DD's I Touch so maybe I'll pick up a WiFi area if I get Lucky.

CHOW!

I'm at the Jersey shore, and the weather is great. Have fun.

 

["Got Disney"]

Hillary had the advantage and could have taken advantage as well. She did not and I blame her for it. She knew the rules as well as he did. The problem for Obama and Democratic hopes for the Presidency (should he get the nom) is that these results cannot be replicated in the general election.

Well yes and no....as it mentioned in the article...there were some that could not caucus because of there circumstances...many of Hillary's supporters fall in that category. So they could not get out or stay out for hrs to wait and caucus....However with that all said...Obama was more organized. But it was clear that it was much easier for his voters who are the majority of Collage students and money that students can stay up till 5am and money can afford babysitters. This what they said about the caucuses and why they should not be used again.

 

[punkin]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";25267504]Well yes and no....as it mentioned in the article...there were some that could not caucus because of there circumstances...many of Hillary's supporters fall in that category. So they could not get out or stay out for hrs to wait and caucus....However with that all said...Obama was more organized. But it was clear that it was much easier for his voters who are the majority of Collage students and money that students can stay up till 5am and money can afford babysitters. This what they said about the caucuses and why they should not be used again.[/QUOTE]

OK. I agree, it is both. She slept at the beginning of the race and did not mobilize her base and supporters sufficiently. However, her supporters are also those that traditionally have trouble with caucuses. The race is so close however (despite what Obama supporters say) that had she come out of the gate more organized, she would probably have been in the lead anyway.

There really is no use dissecting this post mortem anyhow. I am not sure that the Democratic party wants to do anything about it in the future anyway, because it seems they are enamored with the "new face" of the party so much that they forget who the stalwarts always were and will continue to be in the future.

I am a bit maudlin today. Can you tell?