Hillary Supporters unite part 2; no bashing please

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HE did this? Himself? Or did the people that are pushing an inexperienced man do it? He seems to be on a very smooth ride, just showing up and giving pretty speeches.

:thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2

I am with you on this thought process. It does seem that EVRYTHING just happens to work out in his favor.

It is odd how he won the Senate seat!:rolleyes1 ....and very shortly after "they" are talking Presidential run!

Then again...I LOVE Conspiracy theories!!!!:yay:
 
I've heard this idea tossed a lot, but I don't believe this would happen.

Hispanics choose -in a big way, I may add- Hillary over Richardson. How could he deliver that population over to BO, when he couldn't deliver their vote for himself?

Also, he lost that vote before he endorsed Obama. That endorsmment was seen as a betrayal -if not to the Clintons, to his constituency who had already voted for Hillary. It didn't help that he was seen in Univision and Telemundo going all over the place when he was trying to explain his reasons for endorsing BO, at one point even stupidly saying "I don't know him that well, really". He was never consistent giving a reason, which made many think that there was some back door deal made. He's now seen as unloyal an oportunistic by many.

He wouldn't be an asset in anyone's ticket, IMO


I hear what you are saying, but momentum does shift. If Obama is the nominee, do you think they would rather McCain?
Blacks thought of the Clintons as their people didn't they?
What has happened now? The tide has shifted. The same thing can happen here.

Put Richardson out there. Let him be marketed. I think we will see a big shift. Ethnics vote for their own, and I think they will. Remember we have until November before the election, and I think this would be enough time.

I would like to see Hillary go in with Obama, but I do not think he would trust her. I have heard many say she would set him up while in office. This is not spin media. I have friends in high political positions who have made this statement.

I do not know what way this is going to go, but here is the thing:
We can not base our vote on emotion.
I find myself getting caught up in that at times, but I have to deal with the issues. I have studied all three candidates very closely, and I can find pros and cons in all three. I am not going to say I would not vote for McCain, for example because he accepted the endorsement from a minister who hated Muslims. I have to pick a candidate who is going to support the issues I feel will most help me in life.
I am seeing that there are a lot of people who do not even know the candidate's positions on issues. There are too caught up in the media spin- Wright, Bill Clinton's bizzare behavior, etc. etc.

I do, however, have a problem with the way the media (Hannity) is filling the world with fear. To be honest. The way he plays those sound bites with the sounds of Rev. Wright shows that he knows he has the power to manipulate the minds of the less educated.


I read the blogs on AOL, and it is absolutely disgusting to read some of the responses. We have come too far in this country with race relations to have this be made the main issue. Yeah, you can say Obama caused it because he attended Wright's Church, but I bet if the media had introduced it differently; with the full sermon in the beginning instead of bits and peices the take on it would have been diffferent. What happened was that the Wright story was put out there so that Obama was seen as a hater of his country along with his wife. That he is a muslim. That he is a hater of whites.
Hillary has gotten the same negative press, and what I see is a bunch of ignorant people who have no clue what so ever as to what is going on in the world around them, and so much of the information they get is based on media spin and not the facts.

Shame really.
 
In my opinion, Barack should ignore this state and spend his money somewhere that it could actually make a difference. But here's a little information for those complaining about that fact: This state will not vote for either Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama in November, not because it doesn't agree with their policies, but because they will simply not vote for a black man or a woman. But yeah...I'm sure you guys know more about the state I've spent nearly my entire life in than I do. :rolleyes:

If I understand you correctly wvrevy, Obama should ignore WV because of the fact that it will definitely go red in the general election?

So by your own logic, states that will definitely go red in the general are irrelevant. Doesn't that make wins in certain states more significant then others? So where exactly does that leave Obama since a large portion of his wins are in states that are sure to go red?
 
Actually Hillary won in Texas but I believe that it will go red. I don't know about the other states though but I suspect that they will vote for a Democrat. Texas always has to be contrary.

I dislike this bit I see lately that Hillary will somehow take Obama out if she gets too close to him. I don't see it much luckily but I do see it and it sounds a bit paranoid to me.
 

Put Richardson out there. Let him be marketed. I think we will see a big shift. Ethnics vote for their own, and I think they will. Remember we have until November before the election, and I think this would be enough time.

This will be a tough thing to market. According to the Clintons (specifically Bill, I think) Richardson said he was going to endorse Hillary. He then when back on his word - and endorsed Obama after a conversation. Speculation was a VP promise? That's not going to sit will with Hillary die hard supporters.



I do not know what way this is going to go, but here is the thing:
We can not base our vote on emotion.
I find myself getting caught up in that at times, but I have to deal with the issues. I have studied all three candidates very closely, and I can find pros and cons in all three. I am not going to say I would not vote for McCain, for example because he accepted the endorsement from a minister who hated Muslims. I have to pick a candidate who is going to support the issues I feel will most help me in life.
I am seeing that there are a lot of people who do not even know the candidate's positions on issues. There are too caught up in the media spin- Wright, Bill Clinton's bizzare behavior, etc. etc.

I do, however, have a problem with the way the media (Hannity) is filling the world with fear. To be honest. The way he plays those sound bites with the sounds of Rev. Wright shows that he knows he has the power to manipulate the minds of the less educated.

I spent the afternoon with my Mom and some of her friends in a rehab facility (Mom is recovering from pneumonia). Mom and her friends (70ish white women) want nothing to do with Obama. They are considering voting for McCain - even though he's a republican! They asked me what I was going to do - I said I had to vote for Obama - as I am a life long democrat - but I was disappointed that Hillary wasn't going to get the nomination.

Mom then said several aides in the nursing home (African American) stated to her that they couldn't stand Hillary and couldn't wait for her to be gone (Mom watches the news alot in her room, and Hillary was on the TV at the time).

Why do I state all this? Because it appears to me that the Democratic party has a "semi-permanent" split - and Obama has a lot of work to do if he wants those Hillary votes.

I am still hoping for the dream ticket. I told Mom and her friends this - they seemed to be open to voting for that ticket if Hillary were on it. Though one thought it would be insulting to Hillary to have to accept VP. I replied - it would still be history in the making were they to win (as Ferraro was the first VP candidate).

Oh well - we'll know in a few months........
 
Honestly - as much as I like Hillary, I have pretty much given up on the Democratic Party.

I have been looking into the Green Party. From what I have read so far, they are far closer to representing the things important to me than any other Party.

For example - I had to go to page 42 of the 43 page Democratic Party platform before I found this paragraph. (This is the most recent 2004 Platform http://www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platform.pdf)
We will defend the dignity of all Americans against those who would undermine it. Because we
believe in the privacy and equality of women, we stand proudly for a woman's right to choose,
consistent with Roe v. Wade, and regardless of her ability to pay. We stand firmly against Republican
efforts to undermine that right. At the same time, we strongly support family planning and adoption
incentives. Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.

Whereas the Green Party platform (http://www.gp.org/platform/2004/ ) has an entire heading of Women's Rights in just the second section of theirs. (no page numbers because I can view the Green's as an html where the Dem's is a pdf.)

As a woman I was very interested in this section of the Green Platform:
1. Women's Rights

Since the beginning of what we call civilization, when men's dominance over women was firmly established until the present day, our history has been marred with oppression of and brutality to women. The Green Party deplores this system of male domination, known as patriarchy, in all its forms, both subtle and overt - from oppression, inequality, and discrimination to domestic violence, rape, trafficking and forced slavery. The change the world is crying for cannot occur unless women's voices are heard. Democracy cannot work without equality for women that provides equal participation and representation. It took an extraordinary and ongoing fight over 72 years for Women to win the right to vote. However, the Equal Rights Amendment has still not been ratified.

We believe that equality should be a given, and that all Greens must work toward that end. We are committed to increasing participation of women in politics, government and leadership so they can change laws, make decisions, and create policy solutions that affect and will improve women's lives, and we are building our party so that Greens can be elected to office to do this. In July 2002 the Women's Caucus of the Green Party of the United States was founded to carry out the Party's commitment to women.

We also support, and call on others to support, the many existing and ongoing efforts for women:

Social Equality

a. We support the equal application of the Constitution to all citizens, and therefore call for passage of the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA). We urge accelerated ratification by three or more of the remaining 15 states that are required to pass ERA into law and into the Constitution. We urge renewed efforts and campaigns to ratify the ERA. We support House Resolution 98, using the precedent of a three-state strategy for ratification.


b. We call for equal representation of women in Congress instead of the current 13%.


c. The Green Party calls for U.S. passage of CEDAW, the Convention on the Elimination of all forms of Discrimination Against Women, which was adopted in 1979 by the U.N. General Assembly and ratified by 173 countries. The U.S. is one of the very few countries, and the only industrialized nation, that have not ratified it.


d. The Equal Employment Opportunities Commission should actively investigate and prosecute sexual harassment complaints. Women who file complaints must not be persecuted and should be protected under federal and state law. We must enshrine in law the basic principle that women have the same rights as men, and promote gender equality and fairness in the work force to ensure that women receive equal pay for jobs of equal worth.


e. We support the inclusion of an equal number of women and men in peace talks and negotiations, not only because these efforts directly affect their lives and those of their husbands, children and families, but also because when women are involved, the negotiations are more successful.

Reproductive Rights


f. Women's rights must be protected and expanded to guarantee each woman's right as a full participant in society, free from sexual harassment, job discrimination or interference in the intensely personal choice about whether to have a child.


g. Women's right to control their bodies is non-negotiable. It is essential that the option of a safe, legal abortion remains available. The "morning- after" pill must be affordable and easily accessible without a prescription, together with a government-sponsored public relations campaign to educate women about this form of contraception. Clinics must be accessible and must offer advice on contraception and the means for contraception; consultation about abortion and the performance of abortions, and; abortion regardless of age or marital status.


h. We endorse women's right to use contraception and, when they choose, to have an abortion. This right cannot be limited to women's age or marital status. Contraception and abortion must be included in all health insurance policies in the U.S., and any state government must be able to legally offer these services free of charge to women at the poverty level. Public health agencies operating abroad should be allowed to offer family planning, contraception, and abortion in all countries that ask for those services. We oppose our government's habit of cutting family planning funds when those funds go to agencies in foreign countries that give out contraceptive devices, offer advice on abortion, and perform abortions.


i. We encourage women and men to prevent unwanted pregnancies. It is the inalienable right and duty of every woman to learn about her body and to be aware of the phases of her menstrual cycle, and it is the duty for every man to be aware of the functions and health of his and his partner's bodies. This information is necessary for self determination, to make informed decisions, and to prevent unintended consequences. Unplanned conception takes control away from individuals and makes them subject to external controls. The "morning-after" pill and option of a safe and legal abortion need to remain available.

Economic Equality


j. Since, nationally, women still earn only 70% of men's wages for equal jobs, the Green Party calls for the introduction and passage of federal and state laws to achieve pay equity, and funding for the enforcement of such laws.


k. Single mothers are the largest and most severely impoverished group in the United States, which explains why 25% of the children in our country live below the poverty line. Welfare reform has forced mothers to abandon their children to travel to minimum wage jobs. With the extreme pay inequity, single mothers cannot afford child care, nurture their children, and move out of poverty.


l. The Green Party supports real reforms to end poverty and return dignity and opportunity to all mothers. We call for implementing innovative programs that work with the particular and special needs of motherhood. We also support other programs such as a universal basic income (known also as a guaranteed income or Citizen Dividend, as described in True Cost Pricing and Tax Fairness ) that will provide for those who nurture the next generation - work that is of incalculable importance to our society.

Violence and Oppression


m. Language is often used as a weapon by those with power, and women have traditionally borne the brunt of inflicted injuries. Freedom of speech is vital to democracy. However, we believe that this freedom should not be used to perpetuate oppression and abuse.


n. Rape, domestic violence and other violence to women are increasing nationwide. We must address the root cause of all violence even as we specifically address violence to women. We cannot allow this to continue and call for increased funding for programs to address it.


o. The Green Party has zero tolerance for the illegal international trafficking in humans. Of the millions of humans trafficked worldwide, the large majority are women and children who are bought and sold as slaves and forced to labor against their will primarily in prostitution, but also in agriculture, sweat shops, domestic service and in other forms of servitude. According to Human Rights Watch, in all cases coercive tactics - including deception, fraud, intimidation, isolation, threat and use of physical force, or debt bondage - are used to control women. Figures from 2003 show 50,000 victims, both women and children, were trafficked to the U.S.


p. The Green Party supports all efforts to eradicate this extreme abuse of human rights, including but not limited to enforcement of existing laws and passage of tough new ones, punishing traffickers, aiding victims, increasing public awareness, reforming immigration laws, supporting existing programs and creating new ones.


q. We support the State Department's annual Trafficking in Persons Report as an important document to begin to combat this abuse. We support and urge enforcement of the Victims of Trafficking and Violence Protection Act (HR 3244) signed into law on October 28, 2000. This Act authorizes funding for the prevention of trade in human beings and for protecting victims. It gives the State Department a historic opportunity to create an office with the exclusive responsibility of ending traffic in humans and protecting the victims of this world-wide trade. We urge committed political support to achieve the cooperation of all different levels of government.

As far as equal rights for my GLBT friends - again I had to go the last page of the Dems platform to get even this paragraph:
We support full inclusion of gay and lesbian families in the life of our nation and seek equal
responsibilities, benefits, and protections for these families. In our country, marriage has been defined at
the state level for 200 years, and we believe it should continue to be defined there. We repudiate
President Bush's divisive effort to politicize the Constitution by pursuing a "Federal Marriage
Amendment." Our goal is to bring Americans together, not drive them apart.

And in contrast the Green's stance was much more developed and more inline with what I think the gay community deserves.
5. Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity

In keeping with the Green Key Values of diversity, social justice and feminism, we support full legal and political equality for all persons, regardless of sex, gender, or sexual orientation.


a. The Green Party affirms the rights of all individuals to freely choose intimate partners, regardless of their sex, gender, or sexual orientation.


b. We support the recognition of equal rights of persons gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender to housing, jobs, civil marriage, medical benefits, child custody, and in all areas of life provided to all other citizens.


c. We support the inclusion of language in state and federal anti-discrimination law that ensures the rights of intersex individuals and prohibits discrimination based on gender identity, characteristics, and expression. We are opposed to intersex genital mutilation.


d. We support the right of all persons to self-determination with regard to gender identity and sex. We therefore support the right of intersex and transgender individuals to be free from coercion and involuntary assignment of gender or sex. We support access to medical and surgical treatment for assignment or reassignment of gender or sex, based on informed consent.


e. We support legislation against all forms of hate crimes, including those directed against people who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, queer, transgender, and intersex.

Sorry for posting so much - but as I read I am beginning to feel like there may still be a place for me out there! :yay: :yay:
It has been very disheartening to be so dismissed and marginalized by the party I have spent a large part of my life believing in. KWIM?
 
The Green Party? For me - maybe in the future......

But absolutely not with Ralph Nader. That guy is starting to lose it...... (my two cents of course.....)
 
/
The Green Party? For me - maybe in the future......

But absolutely not with Ralph Nader. That guy is starting to lose it...... (my two cents of course.....)

They are not listing Ralph as one of their potential candidates. I thought he was with the Libertarians?

Here is the Green list. Oh look at that - 2 women!
GREEN PARTY
PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES
Jesse Johnson
Cynthia McKinney
Kent Mesplay
Kat Swift
 
The Green Party sounds interesting to me too but the problem is that if too many Democrats drift to them then that just helps McCain. I really don't want to help McCain.

This is all very frustrating.

Oh by the way, I could never go for Richardson. What a turncoat.
 
Actually Hillary won in Texas but I believe that it will go red. I don't know about the other states though but I suspect that they will vote for a Democrat. Texas always has to be contrary.

You're right Hillary did win red state Texas. But if I'm not mistaken Obama has won considerably more of the red states then Hillary. So a huge portion of his popular votes come from states where those votes won't count in the general.

I vacillate daily whether I can bring myself to vote for Obama. Right now I'd have to say no, I absolutely won't. The only thing I'm certain about is I will never vote for McCain.
 
Ok - did anyone see the SNL opening last night?

I do not always agree with their point of view on some of the political sketches - but I can almost always see the humor. Or where they were trying to go with it anyway. But last night blew me away. There was no humor in it - it was downright insulting, to both Hillary and the people that support her. If this skit had been reversed - it would not only be getting blasted all over the media this morning - but I am sure there would be calls of getting SNL off the air. The rampant double standard makes me sick.

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/play.shtml?mea=250052


Also, here is an article that I found that goes a long way towards explaining some of my thoughts about not voting for Obama. It is a little long so I won't quote it here, but I do think it is a good read.

http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=913



I did see it, but I thought it was Hillary as seen through Obama supporters eyes.:confused3 But I will agree it was done not very funny.

That's how I saw it that it was a take from what the Media is saying and OS. Everything on there is what has been said about her and her reasoning for staying in.

However it only feeds those that honestly believe all that. And there are lots of OS that will and so. In addition to Collage students that watch it that may or may not be Hillary or OS as of yet and not know enough about politics believing it.

SNL definitely went overboard on that one. Sometimes it is enough to make me want McCain to win just for spite to say...see Obama could not win as all the OS thought he would.:confused3 but than we will not have a DEM in office. And yes that is childish but we all have those moments from time to time :lmao:

O and to add if Obama picks Richardson he for sure will not get my vote. IMO he stabed Hillary in the back for one reason only.... in hopes of the VP position.
 
The Green Party sounds interesting to me too but the problem is that if too many Democrats drift to them then that just helps McCain. I really don't want to help McCain.
Exactly. I hold the Green Party at least partially responsible for Bush being elected 8 years ago. If they want to become a viable party they need to work from the bottom up. Start with small local races, like alderman and then as those people get more experience they can move up to the higher local offices and then into Congress. However, the Greens are not a viable party and any vote for a Green Party presidential candidate is a vote for McCain, IMO.
 
Exactly. I hold the Green Party at least partially responsible for Bush being elected 8 years ago. If they want to become a viable party they need to work from the bottom up. Start with small local races, like alderman and then as those people get more experience they can move up to the higher local offices and then into Congress. However, the Greens are not a viable party and any vote for a Green Party presidential candidate is a vote for McCain, IMO.

The Green Party is as responsible for electing George Bush as Ross Perot was responsible for electing Bill Clinton. It all balances out. Like 1/2 of the Democrats now being called racists. It's a hard label to deal with and the Republicans had it slapped on them a few elections ago. It's been stuck there since. Maybe it'll come off now that's it has been stuck someplace else?
 
HE did this? Himself? Or did the people that are pushing an inexperienced man do it? He seems to be on a very smooth ride, just showing up and giving pretty speeches.

No one running for a powerful political office does it themselves!!!!

He is as experienced as many others who have held the office of President.
 
[QUOTE="Got Disney";25055374]

O and to add if Obama picks Richardson he for sure will not get my vote. IMO he stabed Hillary in the back for one reason only.... in hopes of the VP position.[/QUOTE]


Yep, if Obama picks Richardson -- then I WILL NOT vote for him, NO MATTER WHAT! I can not stand that sneaky Richardson. I think he is even sneakier then Obama.

I think that would be a very dumb move on Obama if he grabs Richardson for a VP.
 
Yep, if Obama picks Richardson -- then I WILL NOT vote for him, NO MATTER WHAT! I can not stand that sneaky Richardson. I think he is even sneakier then Obama.

I think that would be a very dumb move on Obama if he grabs Richardson for a VP.

IF Obama wants the Clinton votes, he will NOT choose Richardson!:sad2:
 
No one running for a powerful political office does it themselves!!!!

He is as experienced as many others who have held the office of President.

So he's just like the rest of them? The last thing we need is an empty figurehead that is being puppeted by the Washington elite. McCain WAS the news media's darling until Obama took his spot. At least he will know how to push back on the DC elite folks and not be used by them. That is the value of experience.
 
I have never ever said anywhere that I will vote for McCain or that I - in anyway, shape or form - support him or his candidacy. I do refuse to let anyone use him as some kind of boogie man that will scare me into seeing things the way THEY want me to see them and therefore act accordingly.

I need to believe in what I am voting/working/fighting for – I do not want to settle. I settled in 2004 and not only did it not accomplish anything – it left me feeling hopeless in ways I did not like. I do not believe in Obama. Sorry – I just don’t. I especially have no faith left for the Democratic Party. To continue my support would not only feel like I was settling – but that I was compromising myself in many ways.

Anything that I have needed to say to or about any of my fellow DIS libs has been said right here on this forum - if I cannot find a way to state how I feel or communicate my position within the terms of this board – I just do not say it at all. I have never felt the need to go running ANYWHERE to lambaste someone, insult their intelligence or throw nasty personal insults out about them behind their back.

Whatever jollies that may come from painting Hillary supporters as racist, traitors, poorly educated/ignorant or plain douche bags is eventually going to fade. Those stereotypes are real easy to throw around but it prevents the necessary action of taking a look at what EXACTLY it is that has SO many turned off. And it is especially divisive when these attacks are coming from people that are supposed to be on your “side”.

I guess that although I considered myself to be a cynical realist - I must really be a naive idealist at heart. I will follow my own conscience no matter who thinks I am an idiot.
 
So he's just like the rest of them? The last thing we need is an empty figurehead that is being puppeted by the Washington elite. I'm not thrilled with McCain, but he has opposed Bush on almost everything for years now and that is why he isn't liked by the conservatives. That is also why he WAS the news media's darling until Obama took his spot. At least he will know how to push back on the DC elite folks and not be used by them. That is the value of experience.
Maybe. More likely, though, is that he'll spend 4 years attempting to have the vast hard right accept him and support his attempts to govern. They never will. He'd be a lame duck from day one.
 
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