Hillary supporters Unit #3 ..yes we are still here!

[JARNJ3]

I think it is a silly article full of speculation and not one iota of factual information.

Also, why is it "Mrs." Clinton and "Ms." Palin? Was that deliberate?

The Mrs and Ms struck me as odd too.....

 

[JARNJ3]

Of course when I go back to grab the news story that I was reading earlier - I can't find it. Figures. Maybe I'll see it tomorrow... it was one of the top news stories on Yahoo earlier today. It was saying that Clinton will not be an attack dog on Palin - that the women that Palin attracts are not the ones that Clinton would. Clinton will still be going after McCain and working to attract the working middle class that she usually attracts but there will be no going after Palin.

And yeah, what was up with the “Mrs/Ms” stuff? It's Senator Clinton and Governor Palin. Did you notice that Clinton was “Mrs” while Palin was “Ms” even though they’re both married?

Was it this one?

Most Clinton backers say Palin's too far a stretch

By JOCELYN NOVECK, AP National Writer Fri Sep 5, 5:16 PM ET

Sandy Goodman was deeply disappointed when Hillary Rodham Clinton didn't get the Democratic nomination, then again when she was bypassed for the VP spot. So Goodman, a longtime Florida Democrat, flirted with thoughts of shunning Barack Obama, and perhaps even voting Republican.

Then John McCain picked Sarah Palin as his running mate, and suddenly things became clear to Goodman: The Republicans had no place for her.

"Boy, you are sure not talking to ME!" Goodman, 61, says she thought when she heard Palin's views on issues like abortion rights. Now, Goodman is volunteering for Obama.

But then there's Chrissie Peters. The 37-year-old librarian from Bristol, Tenn. has always voted Democratic and supported Clinton. She assumed she'd vote for Obama — until she saw Palin speak. Now she's voting Republican.

"She was so down-to-earth, a regular person," says Peters. "She hasn't been in politics her whole life, so she isn't jaded or tainted. And I love that she's a mom. Yes, I disagree with some of her positions, but that's what this country is about."

One of the most intriguing questions about the Alaska governor's sudden arrival on the national scene has been what impact it'll have on women voters — especially those who supported Clinton.

Palin made an overture to those voters in her first speech after being chosen by McCain.

Will the pitch work?

Evidence so far shows that Palin is not drawing a lot of support from voters outside the Republican base.

An ABC News poll released Friday found the selection of Palin makes people likelier to vote for McCain by just 6 percentage points — half the 12-point margin by which Sen. Joe Biden makes them more likely to support Obama.

And as for Clinton supporters, eight in 10 said they'd vote for Obama in November, according to a Gallup Poll conducted last weekend after McCain announced his selection of Palin.

Diane Mantouvalos, for one, thinks the numbers are behind the tide.

"We've always been a few weeks ahead of the polls," says the founder of the JustSayNoDeal Web site, a clearinghouse for groups of disaffected Clinton supporters seeking to punish the Democratic Party and Obama for what they see as inexcusable treatment of Clinton.

Mantouvalos hasn't decided whom she'll support in November. But she believes many former Clinton supporters will end up voting for McCain. And she thinks Palin will help make that happen.

"I was there," Mantouvalos says of Palin's convention speech. "I was blown away. She seemed so confident in her own skin."

And what about all the issues on which Palin differs so sharply from Clinton? "Principle trumps issues for this group," she says of her and others like her.

To Gloria Steinem, the nation's most recognizable feminist, that logic is mystifying.

"Selecting Sarah Palin ... is no way to attract most women, including die-hard Clinton supporters," Steinem wrote this week in the Los Angeles Times, arguing that McCain's running mate is seriously underqualified. "Palin shares nothing but a chromosome with Clinton."

In an e-mail to The Associated Press, Steinem added: "I have yet to meet one single human being who was for Hillary and is now for McCain, with or without Palin, but some must exist somewhere."

Historically, women vote on the issues, not by the gender of the candidate, and since 1980 they've trended Democratic for that reason, says Debbie Walsh, director of the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University.

"I wouldn't expect that the McCain-Palin ticket will pull in Clinton supporters," says Walsh. "They were supporting her on the issues. Her gender just added to the appeal."

Whatever appeal gender has for female voters, Obama's campaign is not about to let McCain corner the market. Clinton herself, along with Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano and Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, all are scheduled to campaign for Obama in the coming weeks, particularly where they can vouch for Obama to large female audiences

The Washington group EMILY's List, which backs female candidates who support abortion rights, says its own polling shows that a majority of Clinton supporters — 55 percent — say Palin's presence on the ticket makes them even less likely to vote McCain. Only 9 percent say it makes that more likely.

"There really couldn't be more of a distance between Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton on the issues and the agenda that Clinton fought so passionately for," the group's executive director, Ellen Moran, said in an interview. "The more (Clinton supporters) are learning about Palin, the more they are coming to the Obama-Biden ticket."

That's not the case for self-described "Clinton die-hard" Amy Goldman. The consultant from Edgewater, N.J. says she'd been leaning toward McCain for a while, but his pick of Palin sealed the deal.

"His pick goes outside the box," said Goldman, 52, who like Mantouvalos is involved in the Internet-based efforts to challenge the Democratic party. "I'm not being bitter by voting this way. I really think they're a great ticket."

Liz Hunter won't go that far. The 25-year-old Clinton fan is deeply conflicted. She's not ready to support Obama, but doesn't think she could seriously vote Republican. She read Palin's speech online, so she could pay attention to the details. "Sometimes on TV, you get caught up with all the applause," she says.

"I really respect the fact that she has five children and a career, and keeps her family strong," said Hunter. But at the same time, "I just don't think I could go over to that side." The debates will decide it, she says.

For Goodman, the Florida voter who's shifted to Obama, there will be no such indecision. She'll work to convince fellow Clintonites that they shouldn't be swayed by the woman on the Republican ticket.

"I was insulted when she referred to Hillary and the 18 million cracks in the ceiling," Goodman says, referring to Clinton's line that her primary votes put that many cracks in the glass ceiling that has held women back. "I don't believe Hillary was making those 18 million cracks for Sarah Palin."

 

["Got Disney"]

ya know what....has anyone noticed how the REP are sticking up for Palin with all the gender comments and so is the RNC....they are saying they will not take that and it is unacceptable and will fight it all the way...

Gee would have been nice if the DNC had done the same for Hillary don't ya think.....I think the DNC could learn something from the RNC when it comes to gender comments

 

[Planogirl]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";27390520]ya know what....has anyone noticed how the REP are sticking up for Palin with all the gender comments and so is the RNC....they are saying they will not take that and it is unacceptable and will fight it all the way...

Gee would have been nice if the DNC had done the same for Hillary don't ya think.....I think the DNC could learn something from the RNC when it comes to gender comments[/QUOTE]
I was thinking that too. I understand someone choosing not to support Hillary but the level of nastiness was sad. So many never once cared what anyone said about Hillary.

 

[punkin]

I was thinking that too. I understand someone choosing not to support Hillary but the level of nastiness was sad. So many never once cared what anyone said about Hillary.

Listen to what they are saying about Palin now (I mean the Dems). Not so much that she's a right wing nutcase (which she is) but that she has 5 kids and a special needs baby so she will not be able to be VP; that she's a bad mother; that she's neglected her daughter causing her to get pregnant.

They are also knocking Cindy McCain for the clothes she wore.

The political attacks pretty much get lost in the SEXIST personal attacks, don't they. I thought we were above that, but I am deeply ashamed.

 

["Got Disney"]

I was thinking that too. I understand someone choosing not to support Hillary but the level of nastiness was sad. So many never once cared what anyone said about Hillary.

Listen to what they are saying about Palin now (I mean the Dems). Not so much that she's a right wing nutcase (which she is) but that she has 5 kids and a special needs baby so she will not be able to be VP; that she's a bad mother; that she's neglected her daughter causing her to get pregnant.

They are also knocking Cindy McCain for the clothes she wore.

The political attacks pretty much get lost in the SEXIST personal attacks, don't they. I thought we were above that, but I am deeply ashamed.

ITA on both posts. Also found it very sad that the DNC and media were all over any racial comments that came out about Obama and made sure that it was dealt with. They were also very good at twisting around the race card and on some people. I am soooo ashamed at how they are pulling out this crap on Palin. I may not agree with her on many issues but I can tell you this...she is or seems to be more of what Obama says he is...Hope and Change ...than Obama is.

I can't wait till the debates. Mostly between Obama and McCain. If there is any indication that it will be like Saddle back or O'Rieally(sp) than McCain is going to wipe the floor with Obama.

I could not believe how Bill got Obama to addmit that the Surge was a complete success and how great it worked when he was so against the surge in the first place. I almost fell off my chair. You could see how frazled Obama was admitting that.

WEll look forward to watching the RNC bring the people down that are all over Palin for being a woman

 

[chobie]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";27397320]ITA on both posts. Also found it very sad that the DNC and media were all over any racial comments that came out about Obama and made sure that it was dealt with. They were also very good at twisting around the race card and on some people. I am soooo ashamed at how they are pulling out this crap on Palin. I may not agree with her on many issues but I can tell you this...she is or seems to be more of what Obama says he is...Hope and Change ...than Obama is.

I can't wait till the debates. Mostly between Obama and McCain. If there is any indication that it will be like Saddle back or O'Rieally(sp) than McCain is going to wipe the floor with Obama.

I could not believe how Bill got Obama to addmit that the Surge was a complete success and how great it worked when he was so against the surge in the first place. I almost fell off my chair. You could see how frazled Obama was admitting that.

WEll look forward to watching the RNC bring the people down that are all over Palin for being a woman [/QUOTE]

Yes, God forbid we should have a Potus who can admit he was wrong about something after receiving new information. BTW, O'Reilly wrote a very complimentary column about Obama today and how he handled the interview -showed him much more respect than you are.

Speaking of... I thought you were being open-minded about Obama? Saying you are looking forward to seeing the McCain wipe the floor with him doesn't sound open-minded to me.

 

["Got Disney"]

Yes, God forbid we should have a Potus who can admit he was wrong about something after receiving new information. BTW, O'Reilly wrote a very complimentary column about Obama today and how he handled the interview -showed him much more respect than you are.

Speaking of... I thought you were being open-minded about Obama? Saying you are looking forward to seeing the McCain wipe the floor with him doesn't sound open-minded to me.

Ya know what....I never said I WAS LOOKING FORWARD to him wiping the floor with McCain ...I said that I bet he will. Stop coming in here and taking my words and twisting them around than bringing your twisted words over to the OT and bashing me....If you can not face that Obama is a weak debater or does not do well when asked questions that is your problem.


I can't help that you cant take any criticism of Obama from anyone. I find it so funny that the OS call it total flip flopping on something that other candidates change there minds on but with Obama it is him just changing his mind and that he and he only has the right to do that. That is called Hypocrisy

You and others are so blinded by him and you cant see that you protect him with everything he does even when he is wrong for it. You OS have made it much of your debate on how he was against the War and against the Surge and how it has been proven over and over again that he was right.....Know that he is changing his mind it is us who are calling it flip flopping that are wrong...not Obama.

When Obama flip flops so do all his supporters.....where he goes you follow no matter what.

I will not do that for any candidate. I did not do it for Hillary and I wont do it for Obama or McCain. Sorry but I don't walk that blinded when it comes to voting for the next POTUS. I pay attention to both candidates flip flops and weigh them as such and for me this flip flop is a doozy and goes against much of what he stands for.

And for your info Palin has pushed me farther away from the McCain camp.
STOP TWISTING MY WORDS!!!!!!!!!

enough is enough!!!!!

 

[chobie]

FTR, I agree with you there are sexist comments coming from Dems about Sarah, but there are equally as many coming from cons -- did you not see the the that cute little picture of all the "ugly" Dem women compared to all the beatiful con women posted on that thread a few days ago? What do you think about them bragging about her looks (which they do quite often) and then showing really messed up pictures of Hillary?

And please don't tell me its ok for the cons to post sexist things because that is what you expect from them. BTW, Saddle back thing was not a "debate" and I thought Obama did quite well in the Democratic debates.

 

[Planogirl]

FTR, I agree with you there are sexist comments coming from Dems about Sarah, but there are equally as many coming from cons -- did you not see the the that cute little picture of all the "ugly" Dem women compared to all the beatiful con women posted on that thread a few days ago? What do you think about them bragging about her looks (which they do quite often) and then showing really messed up pictures of Hillary?

And please don't tell me its ok for the cons to post sexist things because that is what you expect from them. BTW, Saddle back thing was not a "debate" and I thought Obama did quite well in the Democratic debates.

I would disagree that the sexist comments are equal but in whatever amount they're sad. I guess that part of my problem is that I expect Democrats to steer away from such things. I was wrong.

I do know that some of Cons love bad pictures of Hillary too though. Of course we did have the shots of GW being goofy and such things too (but he does give the photographers lots of ammo doesn't he?). I don't like the pics but I guess it's expected.

None of it's OK though - I definitely agree with that.

 

[chobie]

I would disagree that the sexist comments are equal but in whatever amount they're sad. I guess that part of my problem is that I expect Democrats to steer away from such things. I was wrong.

I do know that some of Cons love bad pictures of Hillary too though. Of course we did have the shots of GW being goofy and such things too (but he does give the photographers lots of ammo doesn't he?). I don't like the pics but I guess it's expected.

None of it's OK though - I definitely agree with that.

It's a common theme with the cons -- how "their" women are attractive and ours are ugly.

I think comments that she should stay home with her kids are sexist and horrible when coming from Dems. Yet, it is beyond hypocritical for the likes of James Dobson who has been preaching for 30 years women should stay home and submit to their husbands to be praising Sarah.

 

[punkin]

I would disagree that the sexist comments are equal but in whatever amount they're sad. I guess that part of my problem is that I expect Democrats to steer away from such things. I was wrong.

Yes, that's my concern too. Who cares what the crazy conservatives do? They still expect women to be barefoot and pregnant. How do the Dems justify their sexism?

 

[Planogirl]

It's a common theme with the cons -- how "their" women are attractive and ours are ugly.

I think comments that she should stay home with her kids are sexist and horrible when coming from Dems. Yet, it is beyond hypocritical for the likes of James Dobson who has been preaching for 30 years women should stay home and submit to their husbands to be praising Sarah.

It is hypocritical. I won't say that all Cons think like this but I know that some still believe that women are inferior and should stay home. (Nothing wrong with staying home IF it's the woman's choice!). Yet they go on about how Palin is so wonderful and that it's great that she's been nominated for such a busy, responsible job and would also be one step away from the powerful position on earth! How do they make sense of the two concepts?

Again, of course not all Cons feel this way. Just those who do puzzle me.

 

[chobie]

Yes, that's my concern too. Who cares what the crazy conservatives do? They still expect women to be barefoot and pregnant. How do the Dems justify their sexism?

They shouldn't justify and we should call them out on it. However, questioning her judgment as a parent on some things is not sexist - just as Edwards judgment was questioned about running while his wife was ill was ok.

Saying she should not run because she has kids- sexist. Saying she should have thought about how the media would react when they found out her daughter was pregnant before accepting VP -- is not. Questioning her parenting because she has a pregnant teen - not good. Questioning why she slashed funding for teen moms and supports abstinence only education -- is good.

Another thing -- there are con women on the DIs fighting tooth and nail to say they can be feminists and anti-choice, against rights for lesbians and be submissive to their husbands. Huh?

 

[crazyforgoofy]

Yes, that's my concern too. Who cares what the crazy conservatives do? They still expect women to be barefoot and pregnant. How do the Dems justify their sexism?

I'm a feminist and a Democrat. I wouldn't vote for Gov. Sarah Palin if she were running for dog catcher because I disagree wholeheartedly with most of the things she believes in. I don't believe she would have been chosen by John McCain to be his running mate if she weren't physically attractive. She has too many other negatives. I didn't back Senator Clinton because I chose another candidate, not because she's a woman, not because's she 60 years old. I agree with the vast majority of Senator Clinton's views but I agreed with Senator Obama about the war in Iraq.

I have no problem with Governor Palin choosing to run for high political office with her personal family situation. I respect her RIGHT TO CHOOSE. I wonder if she expect to be paid as much as the last Vice-President, after all she won't have his level of experience.

 

[Planogirl]

Another thing -- there are con women on the DIs fighting tooth and nail to say they can be feminists and anti-choice, against rights for lesbians and be submissive to their husbands. Huh?

Actually they can be all of those things in their own little worlds. They however can't apply their wishes to everyone else and that certainly includes lesbians.

That's really the heart of the matter for me. I don't care if a woman stays home, is against choice and gay marriages and whatever else, as long as she doesn't interfere in the rights of others.

 

[punkin]

Another thing -- there are con women on the DIs fighting tooth and nail to say they can be feminists and anti-choice, against rights for lesbians and be submissive to their husbands. Huh?

To quote one of my favorite movies: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. (that means I agree with you)

I agree with the vast majority of Senator Clinton's views but I agreed with Senator Obama about the war in Iraq.

Obama's current view on Iraq does not differ substantially from McCain's. Additionally, Clinton and Obama both wanted us out of Iraq. Was there a real difference about their positions?

And let us not forget that Obama never had to actually vote for or against the war.

 

[Dolce27]

FTR, I agree with you there are sexist comments coming from Dems about Sarah, but there are equally as many coming from cons -- did you not see the the that cute little picture of all the "ugly" Dem women compared to all the beatiful con women posted on that thread a few days ago? What do you think about them bragging about her looks (which they do quite often) and then showing really messed up pictures of Hillary?

And please don't tell me its ok for the cons to post sexist things because that is what you expect from them. BTW, Saddle back thing was not a "debate" and I thought Obama did quite well in the Democratic debates.

All I recall is a lot of ugly pic's of Hillary posted on the Obama thread back in the primaries that you all were making fun of.

 

[chobie]

All I recall is a lot of ugly pic's of Hillary posted on the Obama thread back in the primaries that you all were making fun of.

It was wrong - many of us called them out on it -many of us OS protested the Hillary as wicked witch banner.

Do you think its okay -- on any thread?

 

[Dolce27]

It was wrong - many of us called them out on it -many of us OS protested the Hillary as wicked witch banner.

Do you think its okay -- on any thread?

Nope. Just finding it a little hypocritical when your beloved thread posted many of them and trashed Hillary continuously throughout the primaries and I’ve only seen the Conserv's post one picture. Then again, many of the Conserv’s have never liked Hillary because she’s liberal and stands on issues they don’t agree with so it’s not so surprising to see someone post a pic like that of her on there. However, you lib’s attacked one of your own.