High operating costs will kill FP+

[hoosll]

Just my opinion:

1. Disney wants us to stay for longer vacations by making us unable to ride our favorite rides multiple times a day. The new system works better for first time and irregular visitors ... for adults with no kids who have certain rides they enjoy best ... system just doesn't work especially for a 4 day trip (a week's vacation if you have to drive 2 days both ways!)

2. Disney wants to better predict crowd size in advance by monitoring FP+ reservations. This is resulting in longer waits instead of less personnel. It has always been a problem to predict just how people are going to use their tickets. They are also doing this with dining by penalizing us for missing reservations. They try and drive the crowds with Magic hours and show/parades but in the end, they really don't know how we plan our days so they have unscrewed our pates and are peeking into our heads 60 days in advance to see where we plan to be.

3. Disney wants everyone to have a smart phone so they can make special offers to us as we walk around the park.

4. They want people to stay in resort hotels to get the 60-day FP reservation period which has caused people to suck up cheap hotel rooms on property then stay in off property ... saves on maids (ha ha).

I have already canceled one planned vacation because I did not want to be a lab rat for Disney tech while they smoothed out the bugs. We are scheduled for next Feb and I have such fear of reaching 60 days out that I may cancel again (and I am the queen of planning spreadsheets!)

 

[ckb_nc]

I work in IT hand have for 24 years. I have been keenly watching the Magic Bands, the MDE website and app, and FP+.

We went down there last October and were part of the FP+ roll out. We could actually double dip at the time. The experience as a whole was good but I notice some true glitches mainly in performance. I was able to double book FP+ one day.

Fast forward to May when we made a quick trip for 24 hours of disney. Same bands in use - and we were able to much more efficiently do FP+.

My review from May: I liked the ability to have Fastpasses in hand for later in the day evening to allow us to slow down and not have to get to a park early. I considered it a perk. We had control over day more frankly. Able to make dinner and lunch reservations and the family (well 4 of the 5 with smart phones) could see the plans.

My wife and I are heading down in ten days: with MDE all of my stuff is one spot for both me and Disney to see. I use Evernote to record all of our Disney reservations historically so we can see online. MDE is really making that need go away.

The investment while huge should do two things:

1. It is about the digitization of WDW experience. In theory it should drive down the # of agents to handle reservations in the call centers. Time will be this out - but in my world what we have seen is this - adding online capability does not shift traffic significantly; the increases the traffic but it does make some of the consumer much smarter. Which is actually helpful.

2. It is for the smart phone crowd - folks younger than me (47) and my kids - who expect and demand this type of interaction. I personally love the experience - more freedom, less paper to carry. I can go the parks with my phone and my band and be pretty darn ok. This is cutting edge stuff. The irony Disney probably had 5 or more years to do this.

Finally, there is a part of the crowd who this does not matter. My family would shake our heads at folks who did not about the legacy FP. Blew us away that a 15 minute review online could have saved hours. I do think with FP+ they are cramming more folks into FP windows. Nothing empirical but just my observation. Maybe FP+ was intended to do that - not sure.

 

[Suvadoo]

To the first: The majority of the Kiosk CM's have come from other department within the parks and are not "additional", somewhat resulting in some areas working "shorthanded".

To the second: In the 6 years I've worked at MK, including Main Entrance, there have not been "extra CM's" to deal with Guest problems. If a guest ticket didn't work with the legacy turnstiles, we either had to work on it ourselves or have someone else "cover" our position and walk their ticket to the podium to get it fixed.

Just my $.02

Wow. It sounds like the whole MDE has been tougher on CM's than I had originally thought.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I thought I heard that they had put things like this in place at some resorts. I haven't seen it myself, but our most recent visit was at a value resort (courtesy of a CM discount) and I'm sure they would be the last ones to get it.

We didn't see it on our trips last year...doesn't mean it wasn't there I guess, but we didn't see it

 

[HopperFan]

I have move this post to a new thread because I think it's worth discussing but it doesn't belong in the previous thread.

Picture this:
A software company approaches an entertainment giant with a program that will increase theme park revenue by reducing the time people spend in line. Additionally, the software was supposed to automate a lot of systems thereby reducing personnel. The company buys the software.
Once the software is implemented and guests are starting to make their ride reservations 60 days out, it is discovered that the system is full of glitches so the company is required to hire additional IT support for their reservation system. Then once the guests arrive at the theme park there are more problems, so additional IT support is hired to work with guests in the theme parks.
The majority of the guests who visit this theme park are first timers, and the ride reservation system is pretty complicated. So if the company wants to continue using the ride reservation system, they must continue to provide a lot of IT support personnel which is very expensive. So far, this company has spent at least 1 billion dollars on the new system. Overall, theme park attendance is up, but this is because the country’s economy is improving, not because of this new ride reservation system. The company is also experiencing increased attendance at their West Coast theme parks.
Overall the new ride reservation system has cost a lot of money, and it will continue to be a money pit because of the IT support required to help guests with the system. IMO this ride reservation system that is FP+ will be scrapped, because there is no way Disney can make it user friendly enough for their first time guests without the additional IT support. A lot of people say FP+ is here to stay because Disney has invested too much money in the project. But there does come a time when a company has to cut their losses. I would be very surprised if the FP+ portion of MM+ was still around in 5 years.

I spend a lot of time in the parks with my DS who does not talk. I enjoy people watching, listening to conversations around me, talking to folks sitting by me at the parade and other places ..... most folks I talk to, long timers and new guests like the system and the MagicBands. I rarely have met someone who complains about them.

This is not a discussion about Magic Bands. This is about the ride resevation system and wether or not it will survive.

Your original post clearly states that you are discussing the new $1 Billion system. That price is not for FastPass+. That is for the entire system, MyMagic+. MagicBands, Scanners at Attractions, Restaurants and Stores, Hotel doors, Resort gates, PhotoPass, Ticketing, Dining Plan, Ride Photos and all the active RFID tracking ..... It's all part of a plan, part of a network. A strategy to increase revenue that includes the FastPass+ system. Yes parts of it can be discussed individually - but the original post refers to the cost of the entire system.

 

[Suvadoo]

If I can add MNSSHP for sure-but needs to be even pricier I hear it's sold out way ahead.

We did the Princess & Pirates at MK back when-wonderfull event IMO.

I'm not talking about hard ticket events. When a hard ticket event is sold out, there is no ride advantage. Everything remains crowded.

When I'm asking if people would be willing to pay a premium for a less crowded experience. I am talking about Disney charging more on a daily basis, but limiting the amount of people allowed in the parks. For example taking MK's most crowded day and from this point forward making half that amount MK's maximum capacity.

 

[Planogirl]

I think Disney will eventually have an option to pay for more FP+ or pay for a premium tier'd FP+. Like 2x Tier 1s as your first 3 choices. Or a guaranteed Tier 1 as your 4th FP+.

I mean right now, basically if you stay on Disney property you get a booking advantage for FP+ and you get a less crowded experience during EMH. I've read a few threads of people buying party tickets just to do rides with short waits.

I wonder how many guests at Universal that are not staying on Universal property pay for express pass?

This is what I think too. Disney sees a way to make more money - they will practically hurl themselves at it.

As for Universal, we usually stay offsite and haven't purchased Express yet. We plan and it usually works just like in the old days before fastpasses were available in WDW. I remember taking my copy of the touring plan in the unofficial guide and laughing as we continually ran into the same people who were using it too. It worked well and there is no reason why a good plan won't work (most of the time!) in Universal.

 

[Suvadoo]

Your original post clearly states that you are discussing the new $1 Billion system. That price is not for FastPass+. That is for the entire system, MyMagic+. MagicBands, Scanners at Attractions, Restaurants and Stores, Hotel doors, Resort gates, PhotoPass, Ticketing, Dining Plan, Ride Photos and all the active RFID tracking ..... It's all part of a plan, part of a network. A strategy to increase revenue that includes the FastPass+ system. Yes parts of it can be discussed individually - but the original post refers to the cost of the entire system.

Yes you're right, but the title of the thread is "high operating costs will kill FP+" I wasn't saying anything about any other parts of MDE and the only reason I mentioned the cost MDE as a whole was to explain the logic behind my assertion that FP+ would not survive due to the continued expense required to support it.

If you look on the DIS boards, most of the questions/ problems are related to FP+. Not MDE's other components. I'm not claiming that MDE is going to go away, I just don't think FP+ will survive.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I'm not talking about hard ticket events. When a hard ticket event is sold out, there is no ride advantage. Everything remains crowded.

When I'm asking if people would be willing to pay a premium for a less crowded experience. I am talking about Disney charging more on a daily basis, but limiting the amount of people allowed in the parks. For example taking MK's most crowded day and from this point forward making half that amount MK's maximum capacity.

My point is obviously yes-people pay a large upcharge for hard tickets events-and those fill up, hence my comment they should be even higher. If they are sold out-they are too cheap.

If you know for a fact that there is "no ride advantage" at the hard tickets events-you have answered your own question even further.

Also guests already pay more for choosing onsite resorts including EMH, which does "limit the amount of people allowed in the parks."

Rising prices for high demand is the most common solution on the planet IMO-and I for one would for sure pay a lot more if it reduces crowds.

 

[Laketravis]

I am talking about Disney charging more on a daily basis, but limiting the amount of people allowed in the parks. For example taking MK's most crowded day and from this point forward making half that amount MK's maximum capacity.

While charging astronomical rates could dampen demand, and calculating a maximum daily permitted park capacity might seem on the surface a way to reduce crowds and wait times, in practice it won't make much difference under current circumstances.

Why? Take HS, for example. Even if WDW limited daily admittance to 10K guests, TSM can only provide 10,800 ride opportunities over a 12 hour interval under the most ideal of conditions.

Sounds like everyone gets to ride once without a wait, right?

Wrong. Those 10K guests have no self induced metering system so the probability of most of them heading to TSM within the same few hours time frame will - wait for it - cause long lines. Even with half the average daily guest load, WDW still needs to manage the attraction yield.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

While charging astronomical rates could dampen demand, and calculating a maximum daily permitted park capacity might seem on the surface a way to reduce crowds and wait times, in practice it won't make much difference under current circumstances.

Why? Take HS, for example. Even if WDW limited daily admittance to 10K guests, TSM can only provide 10,800 ride opportunities over a 12 hour interval under the most ideal of conditions.

Sounds like everyone gets to ride once without a wait, right?

Wrong. Those 10K guests have no self induced metering system so the probability of most of them heading to TSM within the same few hours time frame will - wait for it - cause long lines. Even with half the average daily guest load, WDW still needs to manage the attraction yield.

Very good points. Exactly why adding an E ticket Star Wars Coaster will have no effect on TSM IMO. And that was to even get to ride just once in your example.

Esp when the new ride will bring in 1,000's more guests as well.

I still hope they do though.

 

[Planogirl]

My point is obviously yes-people pay a large upcharge for hard tickets events-and those fill up, hence my comment they should be even higher. If they are sold out-they are too cheap.

If you know for a fact that there is "no ride advantage" at the hard tickets events-you have answered your own question even further.

Also guests already pay more for choosing onsite resorts including EMH, which does "limit the amount of people allowed in the parks."

Rising prices for high demand is the most common solution on the planet IMO-and I for one would for sure pay a lot more if it reduces crowds.

They have to be careful if they raise prices for the hard ticket events. They wouldn't want to raise them to the point where they wouldn't sell out.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

They have to be careful if they raise prices for the hard ticket events. They wouldn't want to raise them to the point where they wouldn't sell out.

I do agree-just pointing out folks are already willingly paying much higher prices than just the front gate.

No need to ask "would people pay more".

 

[Suvadoo]

I do agree-just pointing out folks are already willingly paying much higher prices than just the front gate.

No need to ask "would people pay more".

You're absolutely right, it was a stupid question.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

I'm not talking about hard ticket events. When a hard ticket event is sold out, there is no ride advantage. Everything remains crowded.

This isn't true. The hard ticket events at MK top out at about 25% of the MK's capacity. While it feels crowded if you stick to Main Street, ride lines are pretty much non-existent even during sold out parties.

They have to be careful if they raise prices for the hard ticket events. They wouldn't want to raise them to the point where they wouldn't sell out.

Only about half (or a little less) parties sell out now, and the majority of sell-outs occur the day of. I don't think that they can realistically raise prices any higher than they are now for the hard ticket events, because they seem to already be hitting the point where they're pricing people out.

While not a hard ticket event, I think the comparatively lackluster sales of the Osborne Lights premium package (that's being marketed as Frozen package) is proof that they can turn people off if the prices are too high, especially if they're offering very little of value like with that package.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Very good points. Exactly why adding an E ticket Star Wars Coaster will have no effect on TSM IMO. And that was to even get to ride just once in your example.

Esp when the new ride will bring in 1,000's more guests as well.

I still hope they do though.

To see the effect other rides have on TSMM, one only needs to look at DCA where TSMM doesn't even have FP at all.

You're right that an eticket coaster alone won't help.much - because the problem.in DHS isn't a lack of height requirement attractions..its a lack of.family friendly/no height requirement attractions. DCA has a lot.more of those, and the waits for TSMM are much lower.

 

[Suvadoo]

To see the effect other rides have on TSMM, one only needs to look at DCA where TSMM doesn't even have FP at all.

You're right that an eticket coaster alone won't help.much - because the problem.in DHS isn't a lack of height requirement attractions..its a lack of.family friendly/no height requirement attractions. DCA has a lot.more of those, and the waits for TSMM are much lower.

IMO TSMM at DCA is better without FP. After the early morning rush, wait times remain consistent throughout the day. The line becomes self-regulating. It was the same at HM and POTC before FP+ was implemented @ WDW. Now, it's a totally different experience.

 

[johde]

To see the effect other rides have on TSMM, one only needs to look at DCA where TSMM doesn't even have FP at all.

You're right that an eticket coaster alone won't help.much - because the problem.in DHS isn't a lack of height requirement attractions..its a lack of.family friendly/no height requirement attractions. DCA has a lot.more of those, and the waits for TSMM are much lower.

One could claim that part of DHS problem is a lack of rides period. At this point, you're down to 5: GMR, TSMM, ST, RNR, TOT. While a family friendly ride might be better at reducing the lines for TSMM, any good ride would help. I don't ride IASW or Dumbo, or Aladin's Carpets every day of my trip, or even every trip, because there are enough other rides and attractions to fill up my day. With so few rides, a large portion of the guests feel they need to "ride them all". A Star Wars land modeled after Cars Land could do wonders for the park. A new true E-Ticket attraction to anchor the expansion, be it a new coaster, or Test Track style ride, or mind blowing dark ride, think Mystic Manor not Little Mermaid. Surrounding the E-ticket attractions several B-ticket rides, ie Maters Junkyard Jamboree.

Between Star Wars Land and Pixar Place Expansion if they would bring the ride count up to about 12 with 2 major (D or E ticket) rides you'd see the lines for TSMM come down even if attendance increased because people could fill their day.

By comparison DCA is 21 rides, 6 or 7 I'd consider D-E ticket.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

To see the effect other rides have on TSMM, one only needs to look at DCA where TSMM doesn't even have FP at all.

You're right that an eticket coaster alone won't help.much - because the problem.in DHS isn't a lack of height requirement attractions..its a lack of.family friendly/no height requirement attractions. DCA has a lot.more of those, and the waits for TSMM are much lower.

Agreed-but adding that much would be similar to just having EPCOT attractions (plus some of AK) as a "land" in DHS. I would prefer those separate parks over that-but you are correct, enough additions would eventually have an effect on TSM FP+.

 

[DISNEYD14]

Thinking about OP why would Disney have to hire more IT people to work our kinks and glitches. Their website has sucked for years and they don't give a damn about that despite the upgrades it gets worse each year.
They won't hire more IT people for that and they won't for this either.
Strange an entertainment company like Disney has such short comings with IT related stuff