High operating costs will kill FP+

[FlipHipster]

One could claim that part of DHS problem is a lack of rides period. At this point, you're down to 5: GMR, TSMM, ST, RNR, TOT. While a family friendly ride might be better at reducing the lines for TSMM, any good ride would help. I don't ride IASW or Dumbo, or Aladin's Carpets every day of my trip, or even every trip, because there are enough other rides and attractions to fill up my day. With so few rides, a large portion of the guests feel they need to "ride them all". A Star Wars land modeled after Cars Land could do wonders for the park. A new true E-Ticket attraction to anchor the expansion, be it a new coaster, or Test Track style ride, or mind blowing dark ride, think Mystic Manor not Little Mermaid. Surrounding the E-ticket attractions several B-ticket rides, ie Maters Junkyard Jamboree.

Between Star Wars Land and Pixar Place Expansion if they would bring the ride count up to about 12 with 2 major (D or E ticket) rides you'd see the lines for TSMM come down even if attendance increased because people could fill their day.

By comparison DCA is 21 rides, 6 or 7 I'd consider D-E ticket.

Yes! Forget all the scheduling mumbo jumbo. You want to keep guests on property give them a reason not to leave instead of trying to force them to stay. Locking them in sounds penal, I still can't believe they went with that. Sorry we don't want you to go across the street so we are locking you in

However, buy us some new Star Wars or Pixar toys and we can forget the whole thing ever happened.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

If its about money-why not just sell some % of FP+ as a 4th?

Because Disney needs to avoid the overt money grab. While we all know that Disney is focused on profits, they have to have to walk a fine line to avoid the perception of being to greedy. And we're almost at $100 for a one day ticket to MK, crossing the $100 would only be a small increase but the psycological perception makes it seem like more than that.

We attended MNSSHP this year, and I don't think we'll do it again. For $259, it wasn't worth it for us.

 

[Suvadoo]

Thinking about OP why would Disney have to hire more IT people to work our kinks and glitches. Their website has sucked for years and they don't give a damn about that despite the upgrades it gets worse each year.
They won't hire more IT people for that and they won't for this either.
Strange an entertainment company like Disney has such short comings with IT related stuff

I don't think they will necessarily hire more IT support. I think Disney was forced into doing this when they implemented FP+. I just don't think they'll be able to reduce their IT workforce based on the guests "catching on to how the system works" as Mr. Rasulo suggests.

I wholeheartedly agree, their website totally sucks and I don't anticipate it ever improving. i think it's because they just keep trying to cobble old and new software elements together and it works as well as you would expect!

 

[Suvadoo]

Because Disney needs to avoid the overt money grab. While we all know that Disney is focused on profits, they have to have to walk a fine line to avoid the perception of being to greedy. And we're almost at $100 for a one day ticket to MK, crossing the $100 would only be a small increase but the psycological perception makes it seem like more than that.

We attended MNSSHP this year, and I don't think we'll do it again. For $259, it wasn't worth it for us.

Did it allow you to get on more attractions with little or no wait?

 

[RSWA2]

I just don't think they'll be able to reduce their IT workforce based on the guests "catching on to how the system works" as Mr. Rasulo suggests.

Guests will adapt. Again, not everyone will and there will always be some guests who won't get what they want. But then again, if a guest didn't know they had to FP+ a particular ride, maybe then they won't know exactly what they are missing. The first time I went at MK, some friends were with me and they were like "oh it's just fireworks, lets move away from these crowds." It will take time it won't be 100% perfect.

I wholeheartedly agree, their website totally sucks and I don't anticipate it ever improving. i think it's because they just keep trying to cobble old and new software elements together and it works as well as you would expect!

Disney does have an issue with new technology. It was a headache for someone who had an ESPN, Disney, ABC, MDE, Disney store, etc account to have Disney sync them all. Especially if you had used the same email address to sign up, it was a mess. They're trying to merge all these various independent websites with you using 1 account.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Agreed-but adding that much would be similar to just having EPCOT attractions (plus some of AK) as a "land" in DHS. I would prefer those separate parks over that-but you are correct, enough additions would eventually have an effect on TSM FP+.

I really don understand what you are saying here. There are a bunch of great family friendly, well themed rides at DCA now...why would adding well themed appropriate family friendly rides to DHS be akin to having epcot attractions as a land in DHS?

 

[Angel Ariel]

One could claim that part of DHS problem is a lack of rides period. At this point, you're down to 5: GMR, TSMM, ST, RNR, TOT. While a family friendly ride might be better at reducing the lines for TSMM, any good ride would help. I don't ride IASW or Dumbo, or Aladin's Carpets every day of my trip, or even every trip, because there are enough other rides and attractions to fill up my day. With so few rides, a large portion of the guests feel they need to "ride them all". A Star Wars land modeled after Cars Land could do wonders for the park. A new true E-Ticket attraction to anchor the expansion, be it a new coaster, or Test Track style ride, or mind blowing dark ride, think Mystic Manor not Little Mermaid. Surrounding the E-ticket attractions several B-ticket rides, ie Maters Junkyard Jamboree.

Between Star Wars Land and Pixar Place Expansion if they would bring the ride count up to about 12 with 2 major (D or E ticket) rides you'd see the lines for TSMM come down even if attendance increased because people could fill their day.

By comparison DCA is 21 rides, 6 or 7 I'd consider D-E ticket.

I am certainly not suggesting that DHS doesnt need more rides in general,it absolutely does. Just saying that adding only 1 e ticket, as the person I was responding to suggested, would not do much to alleviate TSMM. A carsland type expansion, with e ticket and b/c/d ticket rides, but themed to pixar or star wars - or both - would be perfect

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

Did it allow you to get on more attractions with little or no wait?

At MNSSHP party? Honestly, we only rode two rides. The lines for trick or treating were long and took longer to get through than we planned. We sent 20 minutes waiting to meet the Queen of Hearts. By 7:30/ 7:45 we were in Liberty Square finding a spot to watch the parade. After Hallowishes we did a little more trick or trearing and rode BTMRR and HM. At 10:30 it started pouring and we left.

We didn't have enough problems with crowds to justify paying $258 just for rides. For almost the same amount we could add 2 nights to our trip.

 

[Suvadoo]

Guests will adapt. Again, not everyone will and there will always be some guests who won't get what they want. But then again, if a guest didn't know they had to FP+ a particular ride, maybe then they won't know exactly what they are missing.

I would agree with you, but most WDW visitors are first time guests, so Disney will always be explaining how FP+ works both on line and in the parks. IMO this is considerably harder than showing guests how the legacy FP machine/ system worked.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I really don understand what you are saying here. There are a bunch of great family friendly, well themed rides at DCA now...why would adding well themed appropriate family friendly rides to DHS be akin to having epcot attractions as a land in DHS?

Well I'm just saying CA already has Muppets, TSM and TOT, then by adding the 2 main rides in EPCOT into DHS (Soarin and Carsland is arguably TT but even a bigger draw IMO-Radiator Springs Racers, is a dark ride that utilizes the technology of Epcot's Test Track) and Turtle Talk with Crush, and then adding Tough to be a bug and Kali (Grizzly River run), then add Ariel to counter VOTLM and CA screamin for RNR-and its quite a nice line up in comparison.

But yea I would still vote for DHS to add a Soarin Caliber/popular attraction, a TT/Carsland caliber/popular attraction land, a river rapids if possible.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

But to me the big 3 everyone wants at DHS are RNR/TOT/TSM.

The big 2 at EPCOT are Soarin and TT.

CA has all 5 IMO- TOT, TSM, Soarin and then CA Screamin for RNR and Carsland for TT.

 

[ckb_nc]

I think Carsland at DHS is a matter of time - Radiator Springs where the Stunt show is now seems too simple. Adding something else Pixarish seems a great fit. More Muppet stuff? Marvel rides too. DHS has a great deal of new franchises to choose from including new Star Wars on the horizon

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I think Carsland at DHS is a matter of time - Radiator Springs where the Stunt show is now seems too simple. Adding something else Pixarish seems a great fit. More Muppet stuff? Marvel rides too. DHS has a great deal of new franchises to choose from including new Star Wars on the horizon

Yep-and I'm all for the more the better.

Never really finished my point I guess-I would still rather have 2 parks than one with more attractions.

Would have much rather seen a HP Park at US (3rd gate) than having more options at the 2 parks.

But now that we have 4 parks at WDW-add away-that's great.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I think Carsland at DHS is a matter of time - Radiator Springs where the Stunt show is now seems too simple. Adding something else Pixarish seems a great fit. More Muppet stuff? Marvel rides too. DHS has a great deal of new franchises to choose from including new Star Wars on the horizon

Guardians of the Galaxy-OK kidding.

 

[RSWA2]

I would agree with you, but most WDW visitors are first time guests, so Disney will always be explaining how FP+ works both on line and in the parks. IMO this is considerably harder than showing guests how the legacy FP machine/ system worked.

Yeah, I agree it is easier to explain to a guest, put your park ticket into the machine and it'll spit out a ticket that gives you a return time. As opposed to, create an account 60 days prior to coming, pick the parks you want to go to in 60+10 days, and select the 3 rides you want, pay attention to tiers too...

For first time guests or those who don't know about FP+, it will be hard. But for rides other than Toy Story and Soarin', I think if they get to the park and make the FP+ reservations there, that will be better for Disney than going from paper FP kiosk and 2 hours later another kiosk. They can now go shop/eat/spend money in the park and no run around.

If you are looking at it from an operating cost though, these first time/non-FP+ guests already spent the money on their trip, Disney can and does say, Oh well, you're SOL but here are some other options that we think you'll enjoy. These guests won't know any better that they got Muppets instead of Toy Story. For repeat guests or those who know FP+, it'll work and Disney saved the money there and that's what they want.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Well I'm just saying CA already has Muppets, TSM and TOT, then by adding the 2 main rides in EPCOT into DHS (Soarin and Carsland is arguably TT but even a bigger draw IMO-Radiator Springs Racers, is a dark ride that utilizes the technology of Epcot's Test Track) and Turtle Talk with Crush, and then adding Tough to be a bug and Kali (Grizzly River run), then add Ariel to counter VOTLM and CA screamin for RNR-and its quite a nice line up in comparison.

But yea I would still vote for DHS to add a Soarin Caliber/popular attraction, a TT/Carsland caliber/popular attraction land, a river rapids if possible.

I still don't get what you aee trying to say. Are you saying DHS has the same number of family friendly rides as DCA has, and adding more height requirement rides is what is needed?

 

[Angel Ariel]

But to me the big 3 everyone wants at DHS are RNR/TOT/TSM.

The big 2 at EPCOT are Soarin and TT.

CA has all 5 IMO- TOT, TSM, Soarin and then CA Screamin for RNR and Carsland for TT.

Aside from rnr/tot/tsm, there are only 2 other *rides* at DHS - the great movie ride and star tours. There are shows, yes...quite a few..but shows aren't the same draw as rides. The 3 big ones you mention at DHS are so because there just isn't much else. The lines at DCA's equivalents of those attractions are *much* shorter because there are far more than 5 rides (not.including shows) in the park.

 

[Suvadoo]

QUOTE=RSWA2;52460135]Yeah, I agree it is easier to explain to a guest, put your park ticket into the machine and it'll spit out a ticket that gives you a return time. As opposed to, create an account 60 days prior to coming, pick the parks you want to go to in 60+10 days, and select the 3 rides you want, pay attention to tiers too...

For first time guests or those who don't know about FP+, it will be hard. But for rides other than Toy Story and Soarin', I think if they get to the park and make the FP+ reservations there, that will be better for Disney than going from paper FP kiosk and 2 hours later another kiosk. They can now go shop/eat/spend money in the park and no run around.

If you are looking at it from an operating cost though, these first time/non-FP+ guests already spent the money on their trip, Disney can and does say, Oh well, you're SOL but here are some other options that we think you'll enjoy. These guests won't know any better that they got Muppets instead of Toy Story. For repeat guests or those who know FP+, it'll work and Disney saved the money there and that's what they want.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure you don't work for Disney. You are a true mercenary for money. Excellent point... I'm sad to say.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Well I'm just saying CA already has Muppets, TSM and TOT, then by adding the 2 main rides in EPCOT into DHS (Soarin and Carsland is arguably TT but even a bigger draw IMO-Radiator Springs Racers, is a dark ride that utilizes the technology of Epcot's Test Track) and Turtle Talk with Crush, and then adding Tough to be a bug and Kali (Grizzly River run), then add Ariel to counter VOTLM and CA screamin for RNR-and its quite a nice line up in comparison.

But yea I would still vote for DHS to add a Soarin Caliber/popular attraction, a TT/Carsland caliber/popular attraction land, a river rapids if possible.

But to me the big 3 everyone wants at DHS are RNR/TOT/TSM.

The big 2 at EPCOT are Soarin and TT.

CA has all 5 IMO- TOT, TSM, Soarin and then CA Screamin for RNR and Carsland for TT.

I still don't get what you aee trying to say. Are you saying DHS has the same number of family friendly rides as DCA has, and adding more height requirement rides is what is needed?

Aside from rnr/tot/tsm, there are only 2 other *rides* at DHS - the great movie ride and star tours. There are shows, yes...quite a few..but shows aren't the same draw as rides. The 3 big ones you mention at DHS are so because there just isn't much else. The lines at DCA's equivalents of those attractions are *much* shorter because there are far more than 5 rides (not.including shows) in the park.

Pretty sure we are on the same page really.

I'm saying the same thing really I think. Cutting hairs between a kids ride and ht requirement is fine-but yes DHS needs more than ONE E-Ticket coaster to help with TSM-which is what I said to Travis below.

Very good points. Exactly why adding an E ticket Star Wars Coaster will have no effect on TSM IMO. And that was to even get to ride just once in your example.

Esp when the new ride will bring in 1,000's more guests as well.

I still hope they do though.

Your response was:

To see the effect other rides have on TSMM, one only needs to look at DCA where TSMM doesn't even have FP at all.

You're right that an eticket coaster alone won't help.much - because the problem.in DHS isn't a lack of height requirement attractions..its a lack of.family friendly/no height requirement attractions. DCA has a lot.more of those, and the waits for TSMM are much lower.

Which I didn't disagree with-just saying that is a lot to add. And you admit adding an E-Ticket Coaster won't help-My main point.

I'm just saying well yea if you compare CA you can impact TSM-but thats not just adding ONE E-TICKET, that's adding Soarin, TT and all the others outlined above.

As you mention:

Aside from rnr/tot/tsm, there are only 2 other *rides* at DHS - the great movie ride and star tours.

And can you really say for a fact-if CA removed Carsland and Soarin that TSM wouldn't become a tougher ticket?

And further, if you think it's just no height requirement attractions that keep TSM in CA less busy-then removing Soarin, Carsland, TOT and CA Screamin wouldn't make TSM a tougher ticket as well?

But I do agree if DHS adds Soarin, and TT (Rad Racers) and an additional 18 attractions like CA has-then yes TSM will become an easier ticket-but probably still one of the hottest FP+ reservations.


Buena Vista Street[edit]
Main article: Buena Vista Street
Red Car Trolley
A Bug's Land[edit]
Main article: A Bug's Land
Flik's Flyers
Francis' Ladybug Boogie
Heimlich's Chew Chew Train
It's Tough to be a Bug!
Princess Dot Puddle Park
Tuck and Roll's Drive'Em Buggies
Hollywood Land[edit]
Main article: Hollywood Land
Originally called Hollywood Pictures Backlot until it was renamed to Hollywood Land, in 2012.

Disney's Aladdin: A Musical Spectacular
Disney Junior: Live on Stage
Muppet*Vision 3D
Monsters, Inc. Mike & Sulley to the Rescue!
Red Car Trolley
The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror
Mad T Party
Disney Animation:

Animation Academy
Sorcerer's Workshop
Turtle Talk with Crush
Cars Land[edit]
Main article: Cars Land
Luigi's Flying Tires
Mater's Junkyard Jamboree
Radiator Springs Racers
Condor Flats[edit]
Soarin' Over California
Grizzly Peak[edit]
Main article: Grizzly Peak (Disney California Adventure Park)
Grizzly River Run
Redwood Creek Challenge Trail
Pacific Wharf[edit]
The Bakery Tour
Ghirardelli Soda Fountain & Chocolate Shop[1]
Paradise Pier[edit]
Main article: Paradise Pier
California Screamin'
Golden Zephyr
Goofy's Sky School
Jumpin' Jellyfish
King Triton's Carousel of the Sea
The Little Mermaid: Ariel's Undersea Adventure
Mickey's Fun Wheel
Silly Symphony Swings
Toy Story Midway Mania!
World of Color

My last point was having 2 parks (instead of 4) would indeed make TSM less popular because they would have 25 attractions at DHS-but I prefer keeping EPCOT and AK, but adding to all the WDW parks had always happened and will always continue IMO.

US/IOA blew it with HP lands over a 3rd gate IMO.

 

[Suvadoo]

US/IOA blew it with HP lands over a 3rd gate IMO.[/B]

I don't know about that. With the Hogwarts express, they gave guests the incentive to buy park hoppers tickets. So they increased the revenue and avoided the expense of creating a whole new park. Also, where would they put a 3rd park?

That's a major draw for me with WDW. All of that land and it's all so green and lush. I love that WDW is like being in a large botanical garden.