Help with Rules ? - re: cancelling ressies made with borrowed points

[SleepyatDVC]

Just got off the phone with my Aunt M, a fellower DVCer, who called me after having a frustrating phone conversation/transaction with MS.

We are both going down to Disney for 2 weeks. I will be going down 9/14 and she will be meeting us at the BCV the following week and staying an extra week after I leave. Well, she managed to get "cheap" airfare for her horde of 11 people. So, she's shortening her trip by a few days in October since they're no longer driving. She had planned to use those cancelled points for a February 2003 trip with her boys and a playmate cousin. She had borrowed points from an April use year to make her original Sept/Oct ressie.

So, here's the problem - She called this afternoon to cancel some of her BCV days in October (130+ points) to use those points for a February 2003 (7 month window) trip to BCV. Well, she was told by MS that those cancelled points would go into a holding account that could only be used for reservations within 60 days and in order to book her February 2003 trip, she would need to borrow additional points. Upset and confused at this time and afraid that she wouldn't be able get availability at BCV if she waited, she authorized the borrowing of additional points to make the February 2003 ressie. Then she called me.

I immediately thought that it was the cancellation less than 31 days prior rule in effect. EVEN THOUGH she was cancelling OCTOBER 2002 days? Maybe they started the 31 day clock from when her reservation started - 9/22? But Aunt M said that MS specifically stated that she was cancelling more than 31 days in advance and so the points would not go into a 30 day holding account. But because she was cancelling a reservation made with BORROWED POINTS, those points would go into a 60 holding account. She would only be able to make a new reservation with those points within 60 days and so, she couldn't use those points for a February 2003 trip. Whhaatttt?!!!! This was what Aunt M told me MS told her. And she was sure that MS told her it had something to do with borrowed points. She thought that maybe DVC had changed the rules and she didn't know about it and hence, the phone call to me.

Well, I told her that I had NEVER, EVER heard of such a rule, old or new. And would have certainly heard of it via the DISboards if it was a new rule. I would have called MS myself today to get to the bottom of this if it wasn't already after 6PM. I told Aunt M to call MS again first thing tomorrow and find out exactly what was going on with her points. If they give her the same speel, to ask MS what page to find this "rule" in the member guidebook or the member website, because I'm pretty sure that it's a non-existent rule. If she still doesn't get anywhere to ask to speak to a supervisor. If she needs me, I'll be available via 3-way calling to argue her case. And when we establish that the MS CM had no idea what she was talking about today, I think she should have the supervisor put back the additional points she HAD to borrow to make her 2/2003 trip based on the bad info given to her by MS!

Anyone heard of this idiotic "rule?"

(maybe I should have Aunt M ask for Garth? Since he's always been so helpful )

 

[mousemama]

Hi,

Same thing happened to me last week. I called about a November trip to HH using borrowed points from next year. We had not checked airfare prices yet, so we weren't 100% sure we would actually make the trip. The CM told me there was a room available, but wanted me to know that because I was using borrowed points, any cancellations would result in those points being foreited.(unless those points were used by the end of December.)

Because we were not positive that we would be able to go, we decided not to risk the points.

 

[PamOKW]

I think you need to walk through this with specific dates laid out to figure out whether or not there is a MS problem.

I just checked and the cancellation is based on 1-31 days prior to Arrival whether or not they go into a holding account. That is your answer if her check-in date is September 22. She is past the deadline. This applies to any "type" of point....banked, borrowed, current.

 

[DebbieB]

From page 33 of the Member Guidebook:

Changing a Disney Vacation Club Resort Reservation:

1-30 Days Prior to ARRIVAL: If the new reservation uses fewer Vacation Points that the original reservation, the remaining Vacation Points will be placed in your Holding Account in the appropriate use year.

 

[SleepyatDVC]

Thanks PamOKW,

That's what I originally thought. But since the 31 day rule is the only one Aunt M knew about, she asked about that and she remembered specifically that MS said she cancelled MORE than31 days in advance that this was due to something about borrowing.

But since I wasn't on the phone with them, I really can't be sure what MS actually told her. I would still have her persue it with MS until they explain it to her clearly so that she understands exactly what happened in her situation. Because even I am getting confused.

 

[DVC1996]

I'm thinking it really will be bad for Aunt M if she has to cancel those February reservations, because she will probably not have enough time to schedule another vacation and use her borrowed pts before her new use year in April. If it was me, I think I would have waited till 60 days prior to her February vacation and made the ressie with those cancelled pts. from her Sept/Oct. ressie. Maybe you can call MS and tell them your aunt was totally confused and cancel that February ressie that was made with more borrowed pts. Also....I'm thinking that Feb is not a high demand month typicially and it might be easy making a reservation in Dec for Feb with those borrowed pts stuck in a holding account. It's a shame to lose all those pts

 

[Dean]

Sounds like MS dropped the ball on this one. Since it's clear this is more than 30 days before arrival, those points should have been used for the Feb trip since they would not expire until 31 Mar of next year (April use year). I'd do as you propose, a 3 way phone conversation. My guess is they were confussed. Remember that in 2000 they changed the lead time when you could use holding account points from 30-60 days, I'm assuming this is the basis for the misunderstanding. While DVC could change the cancellation window from 30 to 60 days if they wanted, I doubt this will happen.

I think you can successfully argue not only should the banked points be used for Feb but the borrowed points should be returned to next use year without loss of the double secret one time banking option.

 

[DebbieB]

Her arrival is 9/22, so she's within 30 days of arrival.

 

[SleepyatDVC]

DebbieB,
Thanks for the reference. Yep, it looks like Aunt M is stuck with those 60 days holding account points. Looks like either she was confused and mis-heard/mis-understood MS's explanation or she spoke with a confused MS rep who explained it incorrectly. Like that has never happened before.

I called Aunt M to tell her that it was definitely the 31 day rule regardless of what she heard or thought she heard. Well, she's kicking herself because she did call MS on Friday but got the "closed" message even though her watch said 5:29PM. Her watch is probably slow. C'est La Vie...

DVC1996,
Aunt M usually makes Disney travel plans at the last minute UNLESS they're with other people. Her February trip is based on the school break of the playmate cousin who really wanted tto stay at BCV. So, she didn't want to take a chance. Normally, since she homeschools, she very flexible about when she goes down. I don't think she's ever made an 11 month ressie before. And she bought into DVC during the pre-sale!

Yes, it's a shame that the points went into holding, but no need to fight what was done correctly. If MS gave into every confused member, who would be following the rules?!! As for losing these points, well, I'm sure she'll think of a creative way of "using" them up before the end of March. We were actually thinking of a March trip for my then 4 yr old dd and some of her younger girls. It's just a bummer that we won't be able to even book it until January if we decide to do that. And what to do if nothing was available? We'll see.

LESSON: Make sure you pay attention to the 31 day cancellation rule even when modifying a reservation, especially if the modification results in less points used! And make sure you count 31 days from arrival.

Hmmm... just wondering if it would have made any difference if it was 2 linked reservations for the same unit - 8 days and 6 days? And you canceled the second set of reservations less than 31 days from the arrival date of the first reservation but more than 31 days from the arrival date of the second ressie? Might be good to know for future reference...

 

[Dean]

I guess I missed the 9/22 reference and picked up on the Oct issue. It would start counting from the first day of the reservation, not the day of the stay. Makes one wonder about making multiple separate reservations for an extended stay.