Help with buying a camera please.

sjt22

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Sep 20, 2011
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Hello everyone I am new to this board and I must admit I know nothing about cameras.

I have an upcoming trip with my younger brother and he is looking into getting a new camera for our trip and has asked me to ask about his choices on here.

Why oh why he can't just sign up and ask for him self I don't know :good vibes:

Anyway here is what he asked.

"Can anyone who owns a Sony A6000 mirrorless camera please tell me if they have had problems with overheating whilst recording video?
I want a reliable camera so I want to know if I should buy this camera for my Disney trip or the Panassonic GX7 for video as well as quality pictures"

Any advice would be appreciated and I will pass it onto him.

Thanks

Sarah x
 
I don't have experience with those cameras, but I can bump your post back to the top of the board ;)
 
You might go check out what dpreview.com has to say about both models. Their reviews are pretty thorough and fairly unbiased.
 
I do have the A6000 - but unfortunately can't answer your question as I rarely ever use video. Not sure if it helps by comparison - but I do shoot a lot of fast action - usually birds in flight, where I'm rattling off shots at 6 frames-per-second or 11 frames-per-second with continuous focus, as many as 1600 shots in a day, all in a very hot and humid swamp (temp has been low 90s the past week or two) with extreme humidity...and I haven't experienced any overheating. Again, it's not video, so not necessarily the same torture test, but it at least might provide some idea. Hopefully an avid video shooter with this cam can answer your question directly!
 

from what I've read, the later revision of the NEX cameras (which the a6000 is, just has a different name), no longer over heat.
 
I do have the A6000 - but unfortunately can't answer your question as I rarely ever use video. Not sure if it helps by comparison - but I do shoot a lot of fast action - usually birds in flight, where I'm rattling off shots at 6 frames-per-second or 11 frames-per-second with continuous focus, as many as 1600 shots in a day, all in a very hot and humid swamp (temp has been low 90s the past week or two) with extreme humidity...and I haven't experienced any overheating. Again, it's not video, so not necessarily the same torture test, but it at least might provide some idea. Hopefully an avid video shooter with this cam can answer your question directly!

Which lenses do you use? I'm thinking of selling my Canon kit to pick up this little Sony.
 
from what I've read, the later revision of the NEX cameras (which the a6000 is, just has a different name), no longer over heat.

I found 2 or 3 DPReview threads on the A6000 with users talking about overheating after a 1st 29 minute recording. Then in response, posters will ask what happens if the A6000 screen is flipped away from the camera...then the thread dies with no response.

The EOSHD review did not mention any overheating in video (they did point out that the NEX7 had overheating issues)

It certainly seems to be a much lesser issue than previous models. It doesn't seem like it would be a problem for me (if I were lucky enough to win an A6000) with my limited video shooting.

After reading reviews, the GX7 also sounds like a very, very nice camera, and might have a slight edge in video quality (if you are a pro) while the A6000 has a slight edge in still picture IQ.
 
Which lenses do you use? I'm thinking of selling my Canon kit to pick up this little Sony.

I'd also keep my eye on the new A77ii if you prefer dSLR ergonomics. Still a little smaller than your 7d (I believe that's what you shoot with?), but the performance may be the best APS-C camera around based on early reviews.
The A6000 seems like a great dSLR alternative for those who want a truly small body (though lenses aren't really any smaller).
 
Which lenses do you use? I'm thinking of selling my Canon kit to pick up this little Sony.

For bird shooting, I'm currently using the SEL55-210mm lens - it's not a fast aperture lens, but quite decent sharpness - but more importantly it has a small enough filter thread to allow me to fit a 1.7x teleextender to the end of it, which stretches out my reach to 357mm, or 535mm equivalent in 35mm terms. With birding, reach is more important to me than aperture, since I generally have an abundance of sun down here. I keep hoping a 300mm or 400mm lens comes along in e-mount someday, but my current combo is light enough and easy enough to carry when I want to take a break from my DSLR (which is usually running 8-10Lbs at least, with big all-metal primes onboard)...the A6000 with lens and teleextender total under 3Lbs.

I also have the 10-18mm F4, the 18-55mm kit, and the 16mm pancake in e-mount, and about 25 lenses in various old manual mounts for when I want fast primes and manual focusing - in Konica K/AR mount, Pentax K mount, and Leica M mount.
 
Thanks for the replies.

all to technical for me I'm happy with my iPhone :rotfl2:

Will show the posts to my brother.

Thanks again.

Sarah x
 
I'd also keep my eye on the new A77ii if you prefer dSLR ergonomics. Still a little smaller than your 7d (I believe that's what you shoot with?), but the performance may be the best APS-C camera around based on early reviews.
The A6000 seems like a great dSLR alternative for those who want a truly small body (though lenses aren't really any smaller).

I wouldn't switch to something with the A mount. I think that would be a lateral move from the Canon EOS world. I actually think all the SLT camera are pretty ugly.

The performance of my 7D is great, it can just be heavy at times.
 
I wouldn't switch to something with the A mount. I think that would be a lateral move from the Canon EOS world. I actually think all the SLT camera are pretty ugly.

The performance of my 7D is great, it can just be heavy at times.

Yes, most people aren't going to change systems laterally. Not sure how you would say they are ugly, they don't look too different from Nikon or Canon dSLRs on the outside, lol.

Where the A77ii will shine over the 7D, is notably better image quality (according to DXOMark), more advanced AF system, and obviously better live view mode. 7D still holds up quite well considering the age of the camera though -- and I do wonder whether Canon will eventually get around to refreshing it.
 
Yes, most people aren't going to change systems laterally. Not sure how you would say they are ugly, they don't look too different from Nikon or Canon dSLRs on the outside, lol.

Where the A77ii will shine over the 7D, is notably better image quality (according to DXOMark), more advanced AF system, and obviously better live view mode. 7D still holds up quite well considering the age of the camera though -- and I do wonder whether Canon will eventually get around to refreshing it.

FUD, AF System isn't any better than the 4 year old system in the 7D, In fact the Canon has more cross-type phase detect AF points, spread out to cover more of the frame. And don't even get me started about in-body stabilization, translucent mirrors and EVF.... the increase in dynamic range is barely noticeable, and noise levels are almost the same (the Sony goes higher, but actual noise levels are similar). I almost never use live view, and times that I have used it, the 7Ds is just fine.
 
FUD, AF System isn't any better than the 4 year old system in the 7D, In fact the Canon has more cross-type phase detect AF points, spread out to cover more of the frame. And don't even get me started about in-body stabilization, translucent mirrors and EVF.... the increase in dynamic range is barely noticeable, and noise levels are almost the same (the Sony goes higher, but actual noise levels are similar). I almost never use live view, and times that I have used it, the 7Ds is just fine.

lol... I'm not about to get into a match of which camera is better. Certainly, different people value different things. You're not a fan of EVFs, some people greatly prefer them over OVFs. Though if you switch to the A6000, you'll be switching to EVF.

Noise levels are almost the same, but the A77ii outscores the 7D pretty significantly in dynamic range (13.4 - 11.7) and color depth (24.4-22) .
Not saying any of this is noticeable in 90% of shots, but it is a fairly significant measured difference.

May I ask your objection to in-body stabilization?

As to the AF points, I don't think you looked at the new A77 AF. The new A77 has 79 points, covering a massive amount of the frame. The 7D has 19 points total. All 19 on the 7D are cross-point, while only 15 on the A77 are cross-point. So they have almost the same number of cross-points, with the A77 having far more points total, and far more coverage. Plus, the A77 has other features to improve AF ability like in-camera focus range limiting, flexible spot AF, etc.
Need to wait for more objective testing, but I suspect we will find that this is the most advanced AF system in an APS-C dSLR.

Not saying any of this is worth changing systems for. And certainly not trying to define a "best." Considering that the 7D is nearly 5 years old, it really speaks to how advanced that camera was at the time. (Certainly kicks the pants off anything Sony was offering 5 years ago!)
 
lol... I'm not about to get into a match of which camera is better. Certainly, different people value different things. You're not a fan of EVFs, some people greatly prefer them over OVFs. Though if you switch to the A6000, you'll be switching to EVF.

I'm willing to live with EVF for the sake of a smaller overall package.

May I ask your objection to in-body stabilization?

My main problem with IBS is only the imaging sensor is stabilized, not the the phase detect auto focus, which can lead to issues when tracking subjects, with continuous AF and a telephoto lens.

Noise levels are almost the same, but the A77ii outscores the 7D pretty significantly in dynamic range (13.4 - 11.7) and color depth (24.4-22) .
Not saying any of this is noticeable in 90% of shots, but it is a fairly significant measured difference.

I'd hardly say an increase of DR of 1.7, and colour depth of 2.4 from a sensor that's 5 years newer to be significant.

As to the AF points, I don't think you looked at the new A77 AF. The new A77 has 79 points, covering a massive amount of the frame. The 7D has 19 points total. All 19 on the 7D are cross-point, while only 15 on the A77 are cross-point. So they have almost the same number of cross-points, with the A77 having far more points total, and far more coverage. Plus, the A77 has other features to improve AF ability like in-camera focus range limiting, flexible spot AF, etc.
Need to wait for more objective testing, but I suspect we will find that this is the most advanced AF system in an APS-C dSLR.

A77 ii only has 15 cross type AF points, and they're all in the middle 3rd of the frame, I wouldn't want to track a subject with non-cross type points. 7D doesn't have any non- cross type points, but has 19 cross type, in Canon's usual diamond pattern.

The 7D also has advanced AF modes, it has Single Point, Spot, AF Point Expansion, and Zone.

I guess my point is the A77 ii, is Sony playing catch up, it's not more advanced than a 5 yr old design, and is arguably an equal to the likes of the EOS 7D, EOS 70D, and Nikon D7100, when it comes to AF and IQ, and that's without mentioning the half a stop of light, and 5% detail you lose because of the semi transparent mirror.

Definitely not going to lure anyone away from the Canon or Nikon systems.
 
Hello everyone I am new to this board and I must admit I know nothing about cameras.

I want a reliable camera so I want to know if I should buy this camera for my Disney trip or the Panassonic GX7 for video as well as quality pictures"

Any advice would be appreciated and I will pass it onto him.

Thanks

Sarah x

I have a Panasonic GX7 (my second Panasonic micro 4/3 camera) but do not have any experience with Sony cameras.
Micro 4/3 lenses will generally be smaller and lighter because of the smaller sensor. Apart from Canon and Nikon this system probably has a wider selection of lenses than any other and with adapters can use almost any lens.

Panasonic cameras are rated highly for video and the GX7 does a good job with that. It also has very fast and accurate focus (more accurate than SLRs since the image sensor is also the focus sensor).

Either of these cameras are going to do well, a lot of it comes down to how they feel.
 
Either of these cameras are going to do well, a lot of it comes down to how they feel.

This applies to pretty much any camera purchase these days!

Hopefully Sony, and 3rd parties grow the E- Mount lens selection out more, to make these decisions even harder!

I'm attracted to m4/3 because of the lens selection, but the smaller sensor scares me.
 
I'm willing to live with EVF for the sake of a smaller overall package.

My main problem with IBS is only the imaging sensor is stabilized, not the the phase detect auto focus, which can lead to issues when tracking subjects, with continuous AF and a telephoto lens.

No longer true. The A77ii kicks the stabilization in when half-pressing the shutter, it no longer only kicks in when acquiring the image.



I'd hardly say an increase of DR of 1.7, and colour depth of 2.4 from a sensor that's 5 years newer to be significant.

The age is irrelevant. It's 1.7 and 2.4, and whether those numbers are better or not. This actually speaks to a downside of Canon as a brand currently (and each brand has its own downsides) --- Canon's sensor technology has really stood still over the last 5 years or so, while the other camera makers have constantly evolved their sensor technology.

I suspect this may change soon --- I have a feeling Canon may soon announce a big leap forward in sensor technology. But for the time being, Canon has allowed itself to fall behind.



A77 ii only has 15 cross type AF points, and they're all in the middle 3rd of the frame, I wouldn't want to track a subject with non-cross type points. 7D doesn't have any non- cross type points, but has 19 cross type, in Canon's usual diamond pattern.

15 vs 19... and Canon's diamond, while spreading out slightly from the middle, doesn't cover nearly as much of the entire frame.

The 7D also has advanced AF modes, it has Single Point, Spot, AF Point Expansion, and Zone.

Yes, the 7D has all the modes that have become standard. It lacks the newest AF modes that can be found on the A77ii.
I particularly find AF range limiting very helpful in some telephoto situations. It really speeds up focus, when you limit the range in which you want the camera to hunt for focus.

I guess my point is the A77 ii, is Sony playing catch up, it's not more advanced than a 5 yr old design, and is arguably an equal to the likes of the EOS 7D, EOS 70D, and Nikon D7100, when it comes to AF and IQ, and that's without mentioning the half a stop of light, and 5% detail you lose because of the semi transparent mirror.

Not more advanced than a 5-year-old design? It's more advanced in just about every conceivable way. Which shouldn't be surprising given the 5-year difference in their ages.
As to the 70D and Nikon D7100 --- There you are talking about the same generation, cameras within about a year in age. Whether the A77ii is equal, behind, or ahead, will require independent testing.

Not sure where you are getting this 5% detail loss from the mirror --- I've never seen an ounce of detail loss.

There is a loss of light, but it's not a half a stop. We do have the independent testing where it comes to IQ --
Compared to the D7100 --- The A77ii is 1/3rd of a stop behind the D7100 in ISO. According to DXOMark, the A77ii is in a tie with the D7100 in dynamic range and color depth.
Compared to the 7D and 70D, DXOMark rates the A77ii better across the board. Even with the mirrored light loss, DXOMark puts the A77ii slightly ahead of the 7D and 70D in ISO performance.

So you are free to dislike the transparent mirror... but independent testing suggests that even with the mirror, the results are currently ahead of the Canon competition. (As mentioned above, I suspect Canon may be taking a leap forward in the future, but I'm only commenting on how things are now).

As to AF comparisons, we await comparisons. I always felt that Nikon was the king of AF tracking. We will see whether the A77ii has caught up, surpassed, or is still behind.

I will note, that AF on the original A77 was already faster than the Canon 7D, according to testing by Popphoto and by Imaging-Resource. According to Popphoto, the original A77 focused in good light in 0.24 in good light, and 0.98 in the dimmest conditions. The D7 was 0.37 in good light, and 1.27 in dimmest.
Imaging-resource measured the A77 shutter response time as 0.124 seconds, and measured the Canon 7D as 0.131. So Sony was already ahead by a hair according to that test.

Unfortunately, it is much harder to objectively measure "tracking." But I will await some objective testing and reviews of the A77ii.

Definitely not going to lure anyone away from the Canon or Nikon systems.

I know people who have been lured away! All depends on what a person wants. Of course, where people have a big investment in lenses from any one system, I don't expect them to be easily lured away. And I'm not saying I see it frequently, but I absolutely have seen Canon/Nikon users lured to the A77, A99, etc.

Really, there is no right or wrong camera. All the major brands can produce virtually identical images. It's a great time to be a photographer in that respect. But each brand brings some unique pros and cons to the table. (Certainly, Sony can't approach the diversity of Canon's lens lineup. Canon's greater popularity brings definite advantages. Sony doesn't have the support for professional users offered by Canon. Some people will always prefer an OVF over an EVF. And while no other APS-C camera can touch the A77's 12 fps full resolution burst rate, it comes at the cost of locked exposure and a lagging viewfinder when in high burst mode. It would be easy for someone shooting sports to still prefer the 7D's 8 fps with full exposure control, and a regular OVF viewfinder. )
 
No longer true. The A77ii kicks the stabilization in when half-pressing the shutter, it no longer only kicks in when acquiring the image.

The phase-detect AF sensor is separate from the imaging sensor, it uses a semi-transparent mirror to bounce light up to the Focus/metering sensor array. This is not stabilized with in body stabilization as only the imaging sensor shifts around to compensate for the camera moving, this does affect subject tracking.

The age is irrelevant. It's 1.7 and 2.4, and whether those numbers are better or not. This actually speaks to a downside of Canon as a brand currently (and each brand has its own downsides) --- Canon's sensor technology has really stood still over the last 5 years or so, while the other camera makers have constantly evolved their sensor technology.

13.4 - 11.7 is an increase of 12%
24.4 - 22 is and increase of 9.8%

Again neither those numbers are huge increases.

15 vs 19... and Canon's diamond, while spreading out slightly from the middle, doesn't cover nearly as much of the entire frame.

Again there is not a single cross-type point in the right third, or left third of the frame on the Sony, all 15 cross-types points are in the middle section of the frame. Both the 7D and 70D have 4 cross type points in the right third, and left third of the frame, and 11 in the middle third.

Yes, the 7D has all the modes that have become standard. It lacks the newest AF modes that can be found on the A77ii.
I particularly find AF range limiting very helpful in some telephoto situations. It really speeds up focus, when you limit the range in which you want the camera to hunt for focus.

The AF range limit is nice, but isn't needed as there is a physical switch on a lot of EF lenses. ie. EF70-200mm f/2.8 is choice of 1.5 m or 3 m minimum distance. And I couldn't even figure out what "Flexible Spot AF" even did.

Not more advanced than a 5-year-old design? It's more advanced in just about every conceivable way. Which shouldn't be surprising given the 5-year difference in their ages.
As to the 70D and Nikon D7100 --- There you are talking about the same generation, cameras within about a year in age. Whether the A77ii is equal, behind, or ahead, will require independent testing.

You do realize the 70D has the exact same 7D focus system, with the addition phase detect pixels on the imaging sensor, making AF in Live View, and video mode quicker.

There is a loss of light, but it's not a half a stop. We do have the independent testing where it comes to IQ --
Compared to the D7100 --- The A77ii is 1/3rd of a stop behind the D7100 in ISO. According to DXOMark, the A77ii is in a tie with the D7100 in dynamic range and color depth.
Compared to the 7D and 70D, DXOMark rates the A77ii better across the board. Even with the mirrored light loss, DXOMark puts the A77ii slightly ahead of the 7D and 70D in ISO performance.

So you are free to dislike the transparent mirror... but independent testing suggests that even with the mirror, the results are currently ahead of the Canon competition. (As mentioned above, I suspect Canon may be taking a leap forward in the future, but I'm only commenting on how things are now).

A guy took the mirror out of his A55, and noticed a loss in detail and light.
http://thesybersite.com/sony/a55/index.htm#slt_mirror_image_quality

As far as DXOMark, If you actually look at the graphs, DR is almost identical between ISO 100 and 3200 (the ISO you actually shot in most of the time), and you see the same with colour, and Noise almost identical. The only reason the Sony has a better scores is because it has a higher max ISO (which is almost unusable because it's too noisy).

the A77 ii is not the second coming, it's a stop gap, until Sony can convice people to stop buying Alpha mount cameras.
 
The phase-detect AF sensor is separate from the imaging sensor, it uses a semi-transparent mirror to bounce light up to the Focus/metering sensor array. This is not stabilized with in body stabilization as only the imaging sensor shifts around to compensate for the camera moving, this does affect subject tracking.

Ok.. but last I checked, all forms of image stabilization are basically useless for a moving object. So OSS is no better than IBIS.


13.4 - 11.7 is an increase of 12%
24.4 - 22 is and increase of 9.8%

Again neither those numbers are huge increases.

Those are noticeable differences. You are making a weird argument -- That since 24.4 is only 10% better than 22, the means 22 is better?

By your logic, all cameras are the same. The full frame Canon 5Diii has a dynamic range of 24. The old APS-C Canon 50D has a dynamic range of 21.8. Again, only a 10% difference. It's hard to find any 2 cameras with more than a 10% difference in dynamic range.


Again there is not a single cross-type point in the right third, or left third of the frame on the Sony, all 15 cross-types points are in the middle section of the frame. Both the 7D and 70D have 4 cross type points in the right third, and left third of the frame, and 11 in the middle third.


You're quite hung up on that. I'll wait to see objective testing of the total effect. There are areas on the A77ii with focus points, where the 7D and 70D don't have any focus points at all.


The AF range limit is nice, but isn't needed as there is a physical switch on a lot of EF lenses. ie. EF70-200mm f/2.8 is choice of 1.5 m or 3 m minimum distance. And I couldn't even figure out what "Flexible Spot AF" even did.

Not all Canon lenses have focus limiters --- You picked a very expensive professional lens as your example. Furthermore, the choice of 1.5m or 3m may be nice, but it's a very limited feature compared to the Sony focus range limiter. I can make it exact --- Focus between 10 feet and 15 feet only. Focus 20 feet to infinity. Focus only 7 to 14 feet, etc. So it's much more customizable than the physical switch.


You do realize the 70D has the exact same 7D focus system, with the addition phase detect pixels on the imaging sensor, making AF in Live View, and video mode quicker.

Yes, and even the original A77 out-performed that AF system based on professional testing. And while live view AF is faster on the 70D than prior Canon models, it is still MUCH slower than the Sony dSLT cameras.

Imaging-resource measured the AF/shutter time in the 70D live-view mode to be just over 0.5 seconds. Not bad for a traditional dSLR. But still much slower than the A77 -- 0.124 seconds. Four times faster. (400%)


A guy took the mirror out of his A55, and noticed a loss in detail and light.
http://thesybersite.com/sony/a55/index.htm#slt_mirror_image_quality

Oh.... a guy blogged about it. Okay... I'll rely on professional reviews from trusted sources. And such sources have not found any resolution penalty for the dSLT mirror. It effect is only light loss, about 1/3rd of a stop usually.


As far as DXOMark, If you actually look at the graphs, DR is almost identical between ISO 100 and 3200 (the ISO you actually shot in most of the time), and you see the same with colour, and Noise almost identical. The only reason the Sony has a better scores is because it has a higher max ISO (which is almost unusable because it's too noisy).

Huh? No.... That's not how DXOMark does their testing. You should read the explanation of their testing. Not sure where you are finding the graphs either. But they test DR and color at base ISO.

In fact, here is what the reviewer from DXOMark commented:

"Although technically the ageing but still hugely capable and popular Canon EOS 7D is the closest to the new Sony, the sensor in the Canon EOS 70D is the latest from the firm. Like others from the firm the Raw data output doesn’t fair that well with rivals in our tests, particularly at base ISO. The Sony has +1.3 improvement in color and a sizeable +2 stops wider dynamic range, however in low-light capabilities the two are evenly matched."

Now, does DXOMark consider those differences to be significant?
This is what DXOMark says about DR:

"A value of 12 EV is excellent, with differences below 0.5 EV usually not noticeable."

So according to DXOMark, the Canon 70D does not reach "excellent" level of DR. While the A77ii breaks the excellent level of 1.5 stops.

For color depth, DXOMark claims:

"A color sensitivity of 22bits is excellent, and differences below 1 bit are barely noticeable."

So according to DXOMark -- Canon 70D barely reaches an excellent level, while the Sony is noticeably better.

Now, I'm not claiming that DXOMark is the sole judge of such criteria. They are but one source. There are other professional testers, using different methodology, which have favored Canon in other ways. (For example, at high ISO, Canon better preserves the dynamic range)


the A77 ii is not the second coming, it's a stop gap, until Sony can convice people to stop buying Alpha mount cameras.

Wow. Someone is a hater. I never did claim it was the second coming. I suggested it, because you made a comment about considering the A6000, and the A77ii is still a better camera for most uses, apart from size.

What we know from objective testing so far, is that the image quality equals or exceeds all other APS-C dSLRs on the market. (With high ISO performance trailing behind by about 1/3rd of a stop). We also know it has a host of "mirrorless" type features lacking in traditional dSLRs (like focus peaking, faster live view, etc). And we know that the AF system -- which was already faster than most rivals --- has been significantly improved.
May not be the second coming. But as stated in the DXOMark review, may be the best semi-pro dSLR on the market right now.

But as I stated, I suspect that Canon and Nikon have new cameras in the works. Especially as Canon hasn't made any real progress in sensor performance in several years, I kind of think they are working on something big, soon.
 












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