Help me understand the digital TV delay

[bicker]

I know for a fact that there are some areas of Cuyahoga County(cleveland) that because of topography and other factors are going to be losing one or more mainline stations and these suburbs are close in to the city and tv broadcasting towers. I really think once the switchover occurs you'll see many stories of people losing their stations. The feds should probably also be issuing coupons for roof/attic attennas.

I think that many stations are not yet broadcasting on their digital wavelength, and I know that most of them are not yet broadcasting at full strength. While some people might have trouble picking up the signals now, once the switch has happened most people should be able to pick up better signals than they currently get.

Absolutely.

There was no feasible way of really running a test of the post-transition reality. After the transition, many stations will be increasing the power output, physically moving their transmitters, etc. So the test was a test of the box connections, not a test of the ability to receive signals.

Did you check your FCC coverage maps?

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/report2.html

89% of all television stations are increasing the number of viewers able to receive their signal. If you lose channels, you're in a small minority. However, it is clear that there will be some loss of reception. Again, see the FCC coverage maps. They show that that was a planned part of this. The overall improvement will result in degradation for a small minority. It had to; due to the laws of physics, it is not possible to improve everything for everyone.

I'm surprised the tv's that are so old they need a digital converter even work still. How old are these tv's anyway? I have two that are over 20 years old and they don't need converter boxes.

Actually, retailers were allowed to continue selling these (cheap-o) television sets into 2005.

Those of you who are having the problems, is it because you have a dish or don't have cable?

This transition has nothing to do with satellite service, and having a cable box means you won't have to worry about the transition on that television. The transition really only affects televisions that receive their signals via free, over-the-air transmissions.

I thought if you had a dish you were OK w/out a converter box!?

Mostly. Some satellite service customers integrated over-the-air service for their local channels with their satellite service for cable channels. I believe, however, that most current satellite boxes that support that integration support both analog and digital broadcasts for over-the-air reception. Some older DirecTV boxes might not.

 

[DVC Sadie]

I bet the switch to digital will be pushed back even further then June. The last I heard, the new stimulus package that is being voted on next week has approximately 345 million dollars in it to help pay for the converter boxes. How long after the stimulus package is passed will it take to get those last 6 million people the converter boxes?

 

[bicker]

Any bets that they will leave the June deadline alone as we get closer to it?

I think the June date is relatively safe. More can more channels are switching anyway. By June, the additional cost of maintaining two transmitters will be enough to get the rest of the channels to just tell the government to take a hike.

Just a reminder about why television is the primary means of emergency notification: Deaf people can't use radios.

I've decided the delay is intended to extend the period for retailers to sell digital TVs, decoders, antennas to people who DON'T need them because their TVs will work just fine ....

hehe... but what's really shocking to me is that some retailers are saying that the delay is going to cause them to run out of CECB (coupon-eligible converter boxes). How? The delay means that people won't have to rush out on February 18 to buy what they neglected to buy before then. So if they really run out, then they would have run out faster if it wasn't for the delay. Very strange stuff going on there.

Since the gov't has botched the coupon program

This is not the case. The CECB program has worked exceedingly well. Everything that has happened was anticipated, and was considered normal and acceptable potentiality when the program was proposed and approved.

That's not to say everyone actually liked the way the program was structured. Some people wanted it to cost a lot more money, and wanted to add a whole bunch of unfunded mandated objectives to the program. Those were rejected. The CECB program was not allowed to spiral out of control (until this past January, when Waxman and Rockefeller decided to start mucking around with it). Instead, it was laser-focused on making up strictly for what was being taken away, and nothing more.

What we see at work, now, in Congress and the media, is a lot of back-seat driving, second-guessing, and the propensity for folks to whine later about things that didn't go the way they wanted them to go in the first place.

 

[bicker]

My only problem is my little battery opperated tv we watch during hurricanes, when we lose cable and electricity. I'm not happy about that. We relied on that to see where the convection cells were in our area and when we needed to go to our safe room.

They're still a bit pricey:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2855063

However, there are indications that affordable units are becoming available:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001FWYLLG
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/69062

 

[Magic Mom]

Also one of the big's problems is that for some the only way they get emergency weather notification is through television. Alot of country areas do not have the tornado sirens and people are told to head for the bunkers from the television reports.

OT, but it's dangerous to rely on television for your weather warnings. Its much better to get an emergency weather alert radio.

 

[wall*e2008]

Who will be hurt if we wait? Why the resistance to waiting?

My TV. If I have to watch too many more of those commercials I may throw a shoe at my TV. The good news is I know I will not need a converter box with my new TV.

 

[Charade]

Who will be hurt if we wait? Why the resistance to waiting?

The people who are waiting to use the broadcast spectrum which be freed up when the change occurs. The stations who have to spend millions more delaying the change over by keeping their old systems running along side their digital systems. You me and every other taxpayer forking up the $650 million in proposed expenditures because of this delay (it's in the "spendulous" package).

Honestly, I expect it to be delayed again and cost even more money.

 

[OK!]

My TV. If I have to watch too many more of those commercials I may throw a shoe at my TV. The good news is I know I will not need a converter box with my new TV.

Exactly!

 

[bicker]

The people who are waiting to use the broadcast spectrum which be freed up when the change occurs. The stations who have to spend millions more delaying the change over by keeping their old systems running along side their digital systems. You me and every other taxpayer forking up the $650 million in proposed expenditures because of this delay (it's in the "spendulous" package).

Also: Many digital stations are not able to start operating at full power until analog is gone, so everyone who cannot receive digital channels because of that are adversely affected by the delay.

 

[disney1990]

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0209/592274.html

This is a very interesting article. Not all stations will be waiting until the new deadline to start all Digital broadcasting. So if you aren't digital ready, you may lost stations on February 17th anyway.

 

[seashoreCM]

The problem with not delaying the digital TV changeover is that some people on the waiting list will have to pay full price for converter boxes while some people applying later will get coupons for their second and third sets.

An alternative to this problem would be to allow applying coupons to prior purchases. This way those on the waiting list for coupons would still benefit even though they had to rush out and get their boxes now.

Yes the converter boxes work with ancient TV sets.

Video hints: http://www.cockam.com/feb2009.htm

 

[Charade]

The problem with not delaying the digital TV changeover is that some people on the waiting list will have to pay full price for converter boxes while some people applying later will get coupons for their second and third sets.

An alternative to this problem would be to allow applying coupons to prior purchases. This way those on the waiting list for coupons would still benefit even though they had to rush out and get their boxes now.

Yes the converter boxes work with ancient TV sets.

Video hints: http://www.cockam.com/feb2009.htm

There were never enough coupons for everyone. I thought you were only allowed to get 2 coupons.

 

[bicker]

That is correct: The law limited CECB coupons to two per household. And there was never intention to issue two per household in the United States... just simply two per household that cared to apply, subject to a limit on the total amount of money. That was the intention, from the beginning.

 

[Zandy595]

They're still a bit pricey:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2855063

However, there are indications that affordable units are becoming available:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001FWYLLG
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/69062

Thank you very much for posting that! I had no idea these were available.

ETA: The only problem is they have rechargeable batteries. The battery will run out in a few hours and there won't be any way to recharge it if our power is out for several days.

 

[irishbosoxfan]

I calculated a few weeks ago that there was funding for over twenty two MILLION converter boxes. Are there really that many analog, non-cable/non-dish television sets operating in this country?

I doubt it! Basically cable took over as the main method many many moons ago--even if ppl didn't opt for the premium channels(HBO and Cinemax) they still had it to watch ABC,CBS etc

OT, but it's dangerous to rely on television for your weather warnings. Its much better to get an emergency weather alert radio.

Amen! We live in tornado alley and here a thunderstorm can become a tornado in the blink of an eye(heck my weather radio went off twice this morning for severe thunderstorm warnings)

TV while good is useless for every area that may be affected--TV stations are in the big city in another county and sometimes they don't have the most up to date information.My weather radio goes off if they think we will be in the path of an incoming storm

Plus the weather radios are so much cheaper than a digital tv or even a converter box and it can run on regular batteries when the electricity goes out.

 

[bicker]

So an update on this.

One of the most remarkably bits of news we've had is (big surprise) the number of homes unprepared for the transition, while still decreasing, is decreasing remarkably slowly. In the months leading up to the end of last year, the percentage of homes unprepared would decrease by three or four or five percent per month -- significant numbers. Ever since, the percentage has been decreasing by fractions of a percent. So effectively, that could be read to mean that the delay was practically worthless: Most people who were still unprepared on February 17 weren't unprepared because they didn't have time, or didn't have opportunity, but rather because they has no interest in switching until they were forced to by the termination of analog transmissions.

In the mean time, several channels have been significantly hurt by having to pay two electric bills for an extra several months, and the FCC has not been very sympathetic.

Regardless, the June 12 date is now just about two months away. The transition will not be delayed again. No one, either inside or outside the government, is even bothering to float such a balloon. (It is likely that if somehow the date was again pushed out, a majority of stations around the country would simply ignore the order, and transition anyway, knowing that the government doesn't have a leg to stand on, this time.)

 

[bicker]

More data has come in: Fewer households have become prepared for the transition during the two months since the original deadline, than became prepared during the two weeks prior to the original deadline.

So remind me, please: Why was there a delay?

 

[Charade]

More data has come in: Fewer households have become prepared for the transition during the two months since the original deadline, than became prepared during the two weeks prior to the original deadline.

So remind me, please: Why was there a delay?

 

[onelilspark]

A few of our regular channels (FOX, CBS, ABC, NBC...etc) started broadcasting in digital when the original date hit.