Help Me Convince Ex!!!!

[SillyMe]

My stomach is turning for her.

 

[irishbosoxfan]

"If I have to give an answer it's going to be no"

Well he didnt call me so I called him--DS14 failed the first 2 semesters and had to tranfer to another HS(first I heard of it) so that means he will have summer school--I asked if ex could find out when school ended and SS would begin,he said he would call today.

So I asked if DS14 had SS could DS11 come w/me then DS14 could come out later to visit-He said if they were to come he'd prefer if both went together--I explained that this was probably going to be the last time for a long time we would be able to do this and want it to be a family outing and why punish DS11 for DS14.

I have asked every year for 7 years for them to come visit w/me and every year it's been no and not once did I ever say anything to the boys about it---Well last nite I told them "I could understand your dad not wanting you to fly out to visit me because he thought you were to young but I believe that this year you're old enough to fly" hopefully they'll think about that and know it's not because of me that they can't visit.

I did tell them what my plans for them this year was--I felt bad telling them because if he makes it a final no-but then they can only have him to blame and at least know that I was trying to visit with them.

I couldn't come back last nite--I spent hours crying and Dh was trying to console me--He kept saying that as long as I keep doing what I've been doing eventually they'll be able to make choices for themselves and not hate me for the choices that were made. It doesn't make it hurt any less---He couldn't even let go for his kids to go to WDW.

 

[trip]

"If I have to give an answer it's going to be no"

Well he didnt call me so I called him--DS14 failed the first 2 semesters and had to tranfer to another HS(first I heard of it) so that means he will have summer school--I asked if ex could find out when school ended and SS would begin,he said he would call today.

You should be able to contact the school and arrange to have copies of their grades sent to you each semester. You shouldn't be "left in the dark" about this information.

 

[Microcell]

I am not sure if it is you or your Dh that is in the Army, but can't you request a move closer to your sons for the next three years at least? I agree with your ex that you are the one who chose to move away.

About your question: If he has physical custody you have to do what you can to convince him. A battle wouldn't solve anything.

It seems obvious that he is hurt over this break up and making things difficult. Do you think it is possible to tell him that you would love to turn back the clock and not have all this hurt, but things are what they are and you would be ever so grateful if he could see his way clear to let them fly together to Florida, which would be a shorter flight than Kansas.

I am also betting that he will be less than thrilled that you are doing the "fun stuff" with them and he looks like the bad guy. Maybe pointing out to him that he is their rock, the one they depend on and love, and that won't change because of a fun trip.

Good luck.

 

[Microcell]

I have asked every year for 7 years for them to come visit w/me and every year it's been no and not once did I ever say anything to the boys about it---Well last nite I told them "I could understand your dad not wanting you to fly out to visit me because he thought you were to young but I believe that this year you're old enough to fly" hopefully they'll think about that and know it's not because of me that they can't visit.

I do not want to attack you, at all. Divorce is a messy thing, and emotions run crazy in these situations. Honestly, it is up to your ex if he thinks they can fly. He is there and he knows them. On my last trip to WDW, coming back to Kansas City a little girl who was 12 was flying alone, and I had to console her the whole way back because she was scared. My own young kids had to share their dad so I could take care of someone's kid. I would gladly do it again, but she probably shouldn't have been alone.

It could well be out of spite that he is keeping them away, so I would advise you to do what it takes to be close to them again. If you are there and get them every other week, then you can do what you want with them.

ETA: You are moving to Germany????? I am a child of divorce, and my mom was spiteful toward my father. I remained (to this day) mad at my father. He moved to Kansas, my mom wouldn't let us visit, out of spite. I know that. She passed away when I was 16 and off to Kansas I went to live with him and his wife. He never spoke a single ill word about my mother (becuase he still loves her to this day). I am mad at him still, because he chose his new wife over his children. We were not important enough for him.

You have no meaningful phone conversations with them because they are mad at you. You are not there and they don't like it. The oldest is acting out by flunking, those poor kids.

My mom divorced my dad, so I never understood why she seemed so mad about his move to Kansas. Now as a mother, I can say I think it was because she was upset that he left us, his children. Maybe your ex is the same?

On a bigger scale, you have a new family that you can't abandon, but you have some serious apologizing to do to your older kids. They did nothing wrong, but they don't feel good enough for your love. You need to explain that they are deserving of so much better than they got.

 

[Longsx3]

"If I have to give an answer it's going to be no"

Well he didnt call me so I called him--DS14 failed the first 2 semesters and had to tranfer to another HS(first I heard of it) so that means he will have summer school--I asked if ex could find out when school ended and SS would begin,he said he would call today.

So I asked if DS14 had SS could DS11 come w/me then DS14 could come out later to visit-He said if they were to come he'd prefer if both went together--I explained that this was probably going to be the last time for a long time we would be able to do this and want it to be a family outing and why punish DS11 for DS14.

I have asked every year for 7 years for them to come visit w/me and every year it's been no and not once did I ever say anything to the boys about it---Well last nite I told them "I could understand your dad not wanting you to fly out to visit me because he thought you were to young but I believe that this year you're old enough to fly" hopefully they'll think about that and know it's not because of me that they can't visit.

I did tell them what my plans for them this year was--I felt bad telling them because if he makes it a final no-but then they can only have him to blame and at least know that I was trying to visit with them.

I couldn't come back last nite--I spent hours crying and Dh was trying to console me--He kept saying that as long as I keep doing what I've been doing eventually they'll be able to make choices for themselves and not hate me for the choices that were made. It doesn't make it hurt any less---He couldn't even let go for his kids to go to WDW.

I am sorry your conversation with your ex didn't go as you wanted. But I have a suggestion why don't you put WDW on the back burner and take your family on vacation some place closer to your boys. You could pick them up and take them to the beack...you can rent condos thru www.afvclub.com for 299 a week. Really I think it would be hard to take all of the kids to Disney and have a good time....there is a large spread in ages and they haven't spent a lot of time (any?) together as a family to suddenly have to negotiate a theme park could be quite difficult. If you had a normal family situation it is likely that the 2 older ones would get alone time but in your situation the reason you are going is too spend time together and that might be a challenge. I thinka nice week at the beach swimming and just hanging out, getting know one another might be better for all involved.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Since you are leaving the country soon, maybe you could go to MA and take a week or two to see your boys and then you and DS11 (if allowed) could join DH, DSD and DDs in WDW for the rest of your vacation. I would hate for you to not see them before going to Germany.

 

[4greatboys]

I would change my vacation or atleast add on some days and route your trip to include a visit with the boys.
I know its hard but your the one thats going to have to go there to see them. It will mean a lot to the boys and show that you do still care and that they are important to you. Kids need lots of reassurance and as a parents we are the ones that have to go the distance.
Good luck to you!

 

[irishbosoxfan]

I took mini notes so I could address most of what you had to say.

We are ubable to move closer to the boys as DH's Mos (job) is only available in about 3 places stateside and 2 places overseas. One of those places is Germany and we won't be heading there for just over 2 years.

He has told me about not many dates and how hard it is and how he wishes we could have worked things out.

As for me being the one to do the fun stuff--he gets to do all the fun stuff everyday,he gets to hear about girls and game scores and what happened that day at school--many are thinking thats not the fun stuff but for me I love knowing that when they come home there's a new story for that day. It's all a matter of time--It's all I've ever asked for.

MICRO--I don't know what your dads situation was so I can't say. But for me after he got custody of the boys it was hard for me especially since the "they're mine you can't have them started right away" I fought for about 2 years for custody. My job was going nowhere I started suffering from depression and my lawyer advised me to move and start new and when I got my feet firmly planted go back and try for custody again. Obviousely it didn't work.

My boys don't know why we divorced at least the truth on paper version-I'm not sure what he has told them but I know it can't have been the truth because then he would be the bad guy----And I can't add to what they're going thru by telling them what was really going on because I'm afraid that if I do it will only make me look bad and they'll think I was lying to make their dad look bad.

As for vacationing closer we have done that at least once a year since the divorce but like I said earlier even though he knows I'll be there something always comes up so for a 2 week vacation I'll only see them 4 maybe 5 times.

As for my not being able to be with them and them being mad at me for not being there--there's nothing else I can do--I write letters and send them stuff I find that I know they're interested in and call at least once a week.
Not once in 7 years have they written to me or sent a card for my bday or mothers day or xmas and my ex has only called me once and that was to return a call I'd left for him.

If my ex would allow me to interact with them I would hope that everything that they are going thru could be lessened.

 

[LauraR]

I'm sorry you've had to deal with this the last 7 years. I can only imagine how hard it's been. It does seem to me that this is the only way your ex has to get at you, and he doesn't care how it hurts the children. In the beginning it would have been understandable if he didn't want the boys to fly alone, but now that they are 14 and 11, I really can't see the problem. They would have each other, which is a big plus, also.

My parents split when we were living in Germany (mid '70's) and my mother went back to the states early with my little brother. I spent the summer with my dad, then flew back by myself at age 11. It felt kind of thrilling doing it "on my own".

I hope that your ex will reconsider, but if not, maybe you should do as some others have suggested and readjust your vacation to Massachussetts. You could have a great (and probably much more relaxing!) time on Cape Cod or on a lake somewhere. I know WDW is a very enticing dream, but if you definitely are going to Germany you could always do Disneyland Paris instead with your younger kids. But if your DH has another child from a previous relationship that was planning on going, that does complicate matters.

I just want to wish you the best in all this

 

[LauraR]

I'm sorry, I didn't see that you had posted again. I can see from what you've just posted (and previous posts) that this is an extremely frustrating situation for you and you've been banging your head against an incredibly inflexible judge. I can understand why you wouldn't want to try again after such bad experiences with (her?) I want to tell you to keep fighting for your (and your sons') rights, but I also know how financially and emotionally draining that can be.

I'm sorry that you and your boys are suffering because your ex has shut you out. All you can do is keep letting them know you love them, even if nothing comes back to you. It does matter to them, even if they don't show it.

 

[irishbosoxfan]

My DH and I were discussing going to Mass this summer again but like I said it's near impoosible to get the boys even when I'm in the same state.

Mass has been our only vacation for years and it's never been a "vacation" because of all the stress.
I mean we've gone camping in the White Mtns and at the Salisbury Beach preserve and even bunked on my brothers floor and every year it ends with me crying because the boys weren't allowed to spend time with us.
I told hubby this year since we'll have the extra money we'll do a real vacation-I had hoped that ex would let them go given that fact but it's still a no go.
I am still going to take the girls to WDW because it wouldn't be fair to deny them because of the boys inability to go then have the girls hate me for that.
Especially my DSD she's going to miss out on time with DH once we get to Germany.

 

[VSL]

I don't know what to say.

You really do need to fight this. Over here in the UK, it would be taken national, and if it got bad enough, MP's would start talking, things would be sorted out.
Can't you make it known that the judge gave your ex physical custody despite new laws (or whatever they are!) were passed just before?! I know it's her courtroom, but it's not her damn state/country!

I'm really sorry this is happening though.

 

[Hannathy]

I think it is time for a new lawyer He can not refuse to let you see your children. If you have visitation rights you have visitation rights. If they were my kids I would keep them for two weeks when I got them-let him call the police maybe then you would get a new judge. This may not be prudent advise but reading all your posts I think it is time for more drastic action. I agree with all who say go to your base legal or family center. Most professionals are required to keep things confidential. But anyway how would you fighting to see your kids be a black mark on your husband. I think you hinted that there was some abuse bring it up claim you think your kids are being abused because they are afraid to speak on the phone, even if it isn't true make him prove it. IMO you are being waaaay too nice to him and need to decide if you are going to fight or give up and be happy the way it is. Sorry if this seems mean but no one would keep me from my kids unless I was dead.

 

[dbarker]

I don't have any good advice, but you need lots of hugs and pixie dust. My Ex was a very controlling (not nice) person also. From my experience, your ex and mine have a lot in common. Nothing I could say or do would change his mind. When he decided that he wasn't going to let me see my son, he just wasn't going to let me. Even if I were to spend the whole summer at his house he still will find a way of not letting me see my son. He was "punishing" me for divorcing him. DS is 18 and in USMC now.

If it were me, I would tell EX that we are leaving for WDW on xx/xx/xxxx (date). You would like for your sons to join you. And since they are teenagers now, they can fly by themselves on non-stop flights. But, if he decides that he doesn't want them to go, then tell him that it is OK. (don't let him see you cry or let him know it bothers you) Let him have a deadline for an answer so you can make all the necessary reservations. Let him know that if he misses that deadline then you can only assume that his answer is no. And let him know that he is the one that will have to tell your sons that they cannot go to WDW with you.

As heart breaking as it is, you may just have to go to WDW w/o your sons. It sounds like EX isn't going to let you see much of your boys anyway, no matter what you do. And my opinion is that not going to WDW is not fair to you, your DH or your other children. Go to WDW and have a good time.

Good Luck.

 

[tkd lisa]

I'm so sorry that this is still going on. I know you said earlier that taking this to Family Services would affect your DH's career, but I really don't think that would happen.

In my personal experience, my soon to be ex and I were both Navy employees. Short version is that he became extremely mentally unstable, had a 2 hour armed standoff with the police (after we had separated), and is currently on LWOP while in jail awaiting felony charges. My base services have been extremely supportive of me and my rights during this entire situation. I have a fairly high clearance, and there's been no impact on it, because their position is that this is my ex-s problem, not mine! In your situation, you're even one step further removed from the job impact,because your situation is entirely personal, no impact on the job.

Obviously, the final decision is for you and your DH, but I truly don't think that going to FSC is career damaging. Maybe you can make a call to their offices from a pay phone, not give any names, and ask them for some information, emphasizing that you're concerned about career impacts to your military family member?

Anyway, back to the actual situation. Again, from my experience as a child of divorce. You ex's reaction sound very similar to my mom's. Of course, in the case of your ex- he KNOWS why you left, and he shouldn't be feeling like the injured party here! But that assumes that he thinks what he did was wrong, and obviously he doesn't. My mom always made me feel like the guilty party if I ever wanted to visit my Dad. Whenever I was with Dad, he was nothing but supportive of her. He always told me to mind my mom, and emphasized that she was a good mom. But Mom couldn't say ANYTHING nice about him. From the age of about 8 to 16, I chose to not see my Dad. Frankly, the few hours I spent with him weren't worth the grief that I took from my mom about it.

But the final result was that as I got older, I realized that this was my MOM's problem. I did spend some time with my Dad, and talked on the phone and letters quite a bit between 16 and his eventual death when I was 25. And yes, I regret not having a relationship when I was younger. And one of those regrets was that Dad didn't push harder to maintain that relationship. It was a different time, and different courts, but that regret is still there.

So I guess my final piece of advice here, is please don't stop trying to see your kids! You know it's going to be hard for the next 3 years with an OCONUS assignment. If I were you, I would push this through resources from the FSC and petition the courts for a new visitation plan. I would document that I wanted a new judge, and explain why. Bring forward the original abuse issues, since that should have had some strong bearing on the custody issue. And family services ought to be able to help you address the "you're moving all the time, so you're an unfit parent" argument. That absolutely doesn't hold water!

I will keep you in my prayers. And I hope it works out.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

I do not want to attack you, at all. Divorce is a messy thing, and emotions run crazy in these situations. Honestly, it is up to your ex if he thinks they can fly. He is there and he knows them. On my last trip to WDW, coming back to Kansas City a little girl who was 12 was flying alone, and I had to console her the whole way back because she was scared. My own young kids had to share their dad so I could take care of someone's kid. I would gladly do it again, but she probably shouldn't have been alone.

It could well be out of spite that he is keeping them away, so I would advise you to do what it takes to be close to them again. If you are there and get them every other week, then you can do what you want with them.

ETA: You are moving to Germany????? I am a child of divorce, and my mom was spiteful toward my father. I remained (to this day) mad at my father. He moved to Kansas, my mom wouldn't let us visit, out of spite. I know that. She passed away when I was 16 and off to Kansas I went to live with him and his wife. He never spoke a single ill word about my mother (becuase he still loves her to this day). I am mad at him still, because he chose his new wife over his children. We were not important enough for him.

You have no meaningful phone conversations with them because they are mad at you. You are not there and they don't like it. The oldest is acting out by flunking, those poor kids.

My mom divorced my dad, so I never understood why she seemed so mad about his move to Kansas. Now as a mother, I can say I think it was because she was upset that he left us, his children. Maybe your ex is the same?

On a bigger scale, you have a new family that you can't abandon, but you have some serious apologizing to do to your older kids. They did nothing wrong, but they don't feel good enough for your love. You need to explain that they are deserving of so much better than they got.

Can I ask why you didn't get custody of your kids? You may have mentioned it and I missed it.