Help, I'm drowning! Terrible twos...

[ryan840]

OK, someone here has to have a way to help me! My sweet well behaved son has recently turned into the most frustrating child ever. He has always listened so well, and wherever we go I get comments on how well behaved he is. He is still well behaved for the most part, but he has decided that he is just flat out not going to listen to me. He tells me no and does what he wants! I have given him time outs since he was about a year and a half, and they never really mattered to him- he would sit there proudly and wait until he was told to get up. Now I sit him down and he gets right back up, refusing to sit, even when I sit there and watch him. He hits me if he is really upset, not often but still... I am losing it! I put him down for a nap an hour and a half ago, and after taking away his two favorite toys (for two separate instances) and a huge screaming match that has left me feeling like the worst mother ever he is still awake and doing what he wants- mainly staying in bed but getting out occasionally. I have had to give up on him for today, I am about to lose it and it's not worth that to me... I have no idea what to do to make him listen- I have always followed through with "threats" of time outs, toy removal (just started this recently as I'm still not sure he's old enough to understand it), not getting a certain treat, and the occasional spanking. None of it matters anymore, he just doesn't care. If he doesn't behave or ask nicely for something he doesn't get it, I don't give into tantrums, we try to focus on positive reinforcement... I just don't get it- how do you make a two year old understand??? PLEASE tell me you've gone through this, and that it gets better! I feel awful, I can't take it anymore.

 

[carmel]

My adorable, quiet-as-a-mouse 2 yr old decided to enter the tantrum phase 2 weeks before our first family cruise. She had only had a couple before we boarded the ship but had such a tantrum inside the cabin that I felt like throwing myself over the side. Nothing, and I mean nothing, would get through to her. She finally passed out from exhaustion.

Since then, I would consider her an extreme tantrum thrower. Her record is 1 hr 40 minutes. She refuses time outs - I once kept putting her back on a chair for 40 minutes straight trying to get her to sit on it for 2 minutes. I finally gave up. Take away a toy? Well, then she only has 99,999 more to play with. I have talked to behavior specialists and they say the best thing to do is to ignore them completely....'put them in a safe room and walk away'. Does this work? Not with her! She comes and throws herself ON my feet (I have to supress giggles at her theatrics). Her peds finally told me to make her room a safe room and lock her inside until she calms down. I have only done that twice as it makes me feel like a total monster. Every 30 seconds, I calmly tell her that as soon as she calms down, she can come out. But it is horrible. She does calm down and wants hugs afterwards.

Will it get better? Gosh, I hope so. Everyone keeps telling me that. She just turned 3 and I will say the tantrums are not as often. I check with her teachers at school and they say she, for the most part, is a delight and very bright. They say she does it around me because she feels very safe and wants the attention. I'm glad she feels so safe around me but it is quite hard on me.

Just this morning, she refused to put on her clothes for school. I have FANTASTIC daycare workers who have told me to bring her in her pjs and they will make her get dressed. Well, I kept telling her that if she didn't get dressed, I would have to take her in her Dora nightgown. She thought I was bluffing and was quite surprised when I put her in her carseat. Her teacher made her go to the bathroom at school and get dressed. She then had a long talk with her about how she had to do what I tell her to do. She was an angel. Dressed for the teacher in a minute! She's got my number, that's for sure.

I never thought I had the capacity to love something so much. I adore her so much it hurts. But, she has really put me through the wringer the last year. What an adorable, blessed stinker.

 

[LibertyLover]

Ah, how well I remember the terrible twos. Like it was just last year. Oh, wait. DD is 3 and it was just last year. DD was 16 months old when we adopted her and she was an angel. Then 8 or 9 months later, bam, smack into the "terrible twos" wall. Tantrums, oh yeah, been there, done that. DH and I took her to WDW for the first time in January - she was 2 and a half. The tantrum she threw in AK was so bad that I had to take her back to AKL and let DH and DSD24 continue on their own. No punishment worked. Time outs were a joke to her. As you say - take a toy away - right - only several hundred left to play with. So we try to ignore her. It does seem to lessen the duration of the tantrum. She still throws tantrums now at 3, especially when she is tired and hasn't had her nap (ask me about last night's because the dog sat on the couch next to me and she couldn't - DH finally admitted that he had forgotten to put her down for a nap and that was why she was so cranky). As our pediatrician is fond of saying - "3 - it's not that far from 2." Anyway, no, you are not alone. Trust me when I tell you this. They will have tantrums, and Murphy's Law being what it is, that tantrum WILL occur at the most inconvenient time, place, etc. The only things you can do is make sure they don't hurt themselves, not blame yourself for the tantrum, ignore the tantrum as much as possible and when the tantrum is over dry their eyes, mop the snot off their noses and give them a cuddle.

 

[ryan840]

Thanks for your posts carmel and LibertyLover, it helps to know I'm not the only one. We got you beat on tantrums, he's done three hours! He only throws them at home though, I guess we're lucky there... It sounds like we've tried all the same things, and they just don't work. Its so frustrating, especially being 6 months pregnant with out of control emotions. Just like you said carmel, I love him so much it breaks my heart to go through this and I feel like I'm doing something wrong to cause it/make it worse. He has FINALLY gone to bed after 2.5 hours of the worst behavior I've ever seen from him and I'm hoping he stays alseep until my husband comes home. No matter how long he sleeps, he won't be going to bed tonight I'm sure...

 

[waspnest]

All I can say is that it is totally normal. When I "compare notes" with other people, and I hear how normal my ds is, I don't know whether to be happy or sad. Happy because it's normal, sad because there's nothing I can do about it!

 

[carmel]

The irony is that my first daughter was the easiest child to ever walk the planet. I think she had a 9 second tantrum - ONCE. You could reason with her. You could talk to her. You could tell her 'no' without her throwing herself on the floor and screaming for an hour. She is the most even-tempered soul I have ever encountered.

Three hours? Hats off to you Toward the end of the 1 hr 40 minute tantrum, I sat on the couch and sobbed. She wouldn't even let me watch tv. Every time I turned it on, she ran up to the tv and turned it off. The only way she would have stayed away from my feet (screaming and writhing around) was to have duck taped her to heavy furniture in the other room. That thought did cross my mind.........

 

[LegoMom3]

I'll pipe in and agree with your first two replies - ignore it as much as you possibly can. He's pushing all the buttons and it sounds like he knows it! A tantrum is part "I don't know how to express what I'm feeling" and part "HEY! Pay attention to ME!! Try to maintain a calm demeanor in front of him (I know, much easier said than done!...I've seen three boys through this stage!!) and if you need to scream, go to the basement or your bedroom or bathroom and let it out into a pillow (which can make you feel incredibly better! ).

Other than that, hang in there!! He WILL grow out of it!

 

[ryan840]

The three hour tantrum was a fun one, let me tell you. For the last half hour I was in tears begging him to stop because he was breaking my heart. I kept picturing him being tortured or something from the way he was acting- highly disturbing! He was so worked up he couldn't calm down, and he had no idea why he was even throwing one... Ironically though, the tantrums aren't too big an issue for me (in general)- it's the blatent (sp) disobedience that I can't handle. I mean seriously, how do you tell a two year old that it is unacceptable to sit there and ignore me or tell me no and to hit me and throw things? I can try til the cows come home, but it doesn't work.

 

[Huntava]

I have twin toddlers, DD is very easy to deal with, but DS makes up for that, and he was in his "terrible twos" when he was just over a year old. I have been told by many mothers that he is just acting like a boy, but he can be difficult. I haven't heard it called a "safe room" before, but that is what his bedroom is, and when he has a time out, it works real well, b/c if he is throwing a tantrum, he doesn't get an audience, and that really motivates him. He really hardly has any timeouts these days, b/c I will warn him once that if he repeats a bad behaviour he will get a time out, and that usually puts an end to it. Also, I pick my battles, so there aren't a whole lot of things that could put him in time out. It also helps to give them the ability to choose...for some reason, he LOVES to pick out his pants and shirt in the morning, and I let him pick out whatever he wants (his wardrobe is such that he couldn't make some glaring ensemble). Anyway, it seems to really help when you empower them with the ability to make some decisions about their day to day routine.

 

[Mom to Jordan]

Well, he really is cute!!!
Also sounds normal. Also sounds like he has mom totaly wrapped. I agree that ignoring while very tough is best. Do not get into a power strugle with him. You will not win. Pick your battles. Does it really matter if he wears his PJ's to walmart. Two's HATE limits. Only impose what needs to be imposed to keep him safe and you sane and then be sure you follow through EVERY TIME. Give him lot of choices. Does he want to take his nap on his bed or yours. Does he want cheese or P&J. Give him choices you can live with and still give him control. Try to avoid rather that stop the fits. Also know that after so long he can not calm himself down.
I would also avoid spanking and use natural consiquences. If he throws the toys, you take them away. If he won't leave the TV aone. uplug it so he can not watch. AND hang in there. It does get better and THEN they become teen-ages!!!

Jordnas' mom

 

[J. Galt]

Trust me, you are not alone. My now three-year old would throw terrible tantrums when she was two. She is a pretty loud kid to begin with and it was unbelievable when the tantrums happened. She is three now and I agree with the above poster who said that two isn't that far from three. She doesn't throw herself to the ground anymore, but she is still in the "testing the limits" stage and is an extremely stubborn child.

I really liked a book called "Childwise". I can't remember the authors names, but they have written a whole series of books... "Babywise", "Toddlerwise".... each addressing various behavioral problems of different ages and common sense suggestions for handling it. Some people hate Babywise (which deals mainly with sleep issues), I happened to love it. I thought Toddlerwise was kind of a waste of time. Childwise gave some great advice. They state that a lot of times "time outs" can be overused and therefore ineffective. You need to come up with an idea that works best for your kid.

Time outs are lost on my kid (she is currently an only child and has no problem entertaining herself, even without any toys and sitting by herself. I think we could put her in a dark closet by herself and she could still manage to have a good time). The best stuff I took from Childwise included making kids look you in the eye when you give directions and then requiring them to answer "yes, Mommy" afterwards (makes it hard for them to back out of it). So, for example, if my daughter is refusing to say, get in the car so we can go to the grocery store I just state "We are getting in the car and going to the grocery store, say 'yes, Mommy'". Then she says (grudgingly) "Yes, Mommy" and gets in the car. If they are really little, you could just have them nod or say yes or whatever. If there is complaining, I say "All I want to hear from you is 'yes, Mommy'". Sounds harsh, but it works!

Another idea I have used is when there is throwing of toys or tantrums or whatever, I say "This is not how we behave. You need to apologize for (whatever she did)". Then she has to say "Sorry I (whatever)" to me or whoever she directed the behavior against. There is a distinction in the book between saying you are sorry (should be used for accidental stuff) and asking for forgiveness (for intentional stuff). We have started to dabble in this distinction, but haven't used it directly yet. This, also has worked like a charm. Both of these techniques sort of knock the wind out of her little sails. Takes the control away from her.

There are lots of other ideas in the book, some will work for you and some won't. They just want you to see other alternatives to "time outs" and pick an arsenal that will work with your kid. The main theme of the book is that the kids will learn personal responsibility for their actions so that they can (eventually) make better behavior decisions in the future (ie. morals).

Anyway, you can take or leave the advice in the book, but I at least recommend going to the library or bookstore and paging through it to see if it can give you any ideas.

Good luck and realize that although the actual tantrums may die down, the whole disciplining the kids and teaching them how to behave thing never really ends. I have this one friend whose kids are kind of out of control and she keeps asking me when the "naughty stage" ends. I keep saying that it will never end if you don't take some active steps to end it. This is life long learning time for your kids. Just accept it and move forward!

 

[my3princes]

I have 3 sons ages 8, 10 and almost 3. I am going through the terrible 2s now, complete with temper tantrums. It seems to come in waves and if the 2s are terrible then wait for the 3s cause they can be torturous. I remember going through it with my older 2 boys. It will end and you will be tested to the core, but it will end. I have my 2 yr old and I take care of my 3 yr old nephew. It is a constant battle of wills, but thankfully they don't seem to both be horrible on the same days. I have found that sending them to a cushion in my room works best because there is nothing fun in there. Just remember that it will end and they will become sweet again one day.

Deb

 

[NicRI]

Hi, thought I would leave my two cents worth....


We try to ignore my DD's tantrums. Laughing sometimes helps for us... sometimes it makes it worse... Redirection works very well for us.

Tantrums in our house usually happen when she's tired and has not napped very well. (The kids been a cat napper since birth.) And sometimes when we're both tired. I find if I can allow myself to step back and try to see what's really going on. For example: Are you on the phone when it happens? Or other wise preoccupid?

We have an issue when I try to cook dinner. My DD likes to drag her baby dolls in the kitchen and put them to sleep and needs to line them up right around my feet. (Yeah, has made for some fun dinners!!) I actually tripped over one of them and grabbed the first thing I could to balance myself so that I wouldn't hurt anyone.... ripped the cabinet door clear off. DH was not pleased.... to say the least.

Sometimes they are just strong willed and god love them, the need to be in the world.

Hope this was helpful...

 

[ryan840]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm taking notes. What other books do you all recommend? I I will check out the one J. Galt mentioned, and I'd love to hear what ones you "swear by". Thanks again, it helps (somewhat ) to know you're not alone.

 

[minkydog]

.. I just don't get it- how do you make a two year old understand??? PLEASE tell me you've gone through this, and that it gets better! I feel awful, I can't take it anymore.

Easy--you don't. Training a two year old is a lot like training a puppy. When you want a puppy to wet in the yard you don't spend 3 hors trying to convince them to go, you pick them up and put them out there. Done. If they accidently wet in the house or tear up some papers you scold gently, then clean it up and it's OVER.

I have gone through it twice already and i have one who is permanently in the two's(he's mentally handicapped.) I totally understand your frustration. But don't take his behavior so personally. He is pushing your buttons--but only because it works. Most 2yr olds act exactly like your son(and mine). It's part of their normal development and you can't let it make you feel like a bad mother when he throws a tantrum. It's what they do, for heavens sake! So decide what you're going to do and do it, like training a puppy. You love him all the same, but you keep training even when he is defiant. Sooner or later, he'll get better(and then it will be some other kind of behavior, like driving 50mph in a school zone )

cathy--mom to John, 19;Eleni, 12: & Christian, 10

 

[ryan840]

Easy--you don't. Training a two year old is a lot like training a puppy. When you want a puppy to wet in the yard you don't spend 3 hors trying to convince them to go, you pick them up and put them out there. Done. If they accidently wet in the house or tear up some papers you scold gently, then clean it up and it's OVER.

I have gone through it twice already and i have one who is permanently in the two's(he's mentally handicapped.) I totally understand your frustration. But don't take his behavior so personally. He is pushing your buttons--but only because it works. Most 2yr olds act exactly like your son(and mine). It's part of their normal development and you can't let it make you feel like a bad mother when he throws a tantrum. It's what they do, for heavens sake! So decide what you're going to do and do it, like training a puppy. You love him all the same, but you keep training even when he is defiant. Sooner or later, he'll get better(and then it will be some other kind of behavior, like driving 50mph in a school zone )

cathy--mom to John, 19;Eleni, 12: & Christian, 10

I know what you're saying, but it doesn't work like that. Today's nap for instance consisted of me telling him it was naptime, going through our daily nap/bedtime routine and leaving the room as usual. Then he gets up, and he is put right back into bed. A quick/casual I love you good night and I'm back out the door. Rinse, repeat... Several times. That's when it get's frustrating- he just flat out ignores me and yes I know he is pushing my buttons, but I don't know how to stop it- ignorance doesn't work in his case, he just gets up and plays for a couple of hours before finally going to sleep (this was the case a few months ago). He ends up getting yelled at, time outs, toys taken away... all over two and a half hours before finally going to sleep. Most of this was because of his telling me no and hitting me, not because he simply wouldn't go to sleep. Yes, he was tired before I put him down, for anyone who might be wondering. He was never allowed out of his bed, he was put right back in as soon as he got out but it didn't stop him from trying. It sounds simple on paper, but you can't just put a kid into bed and make them go to sleep.

 

[minkydog]

I know what you're saying, but it doesn't work like that. Today's nap for instance consisted of me telling him it was naptime, going through our daily nap/bedtime routine and leaving the room as usual. Then he gets up, and he is put right back into bed. A quick/casual I love you good night and I'm back out the door. Rinse, repeat... Several times. That's when it get's frustrating- he just flat out ignores me and yes I know he is pushing my buttons, but I don't know how to stop it- ignorance doesn't work in his case, he just gets up and plays for a couple of hours before finally going to sleep (this was the case a few months ago). He ends up getting yelled at, time outs, toys taken away... all over two and a half hours before finally going to sleep. Most of this was because of his telling me no and hitting me, not because he simply wouldn't go to sleep. Yes, he was tired before I put him down, for anyone who might be wondering. He was never allowed out of his bed, he was put right back in as soon as he got out but it didn't stop him from trying. It sounds simple on paper, but you can't just put a kid into bed and make them go to sleep.

I hope you didn't think I was criticizing you. I have been in your shoes(I'm still in your shoes!) You are right--you can't make a child go to sleep. You can, however, stop getting sucked into the argument. The more you interact,the more the situation escalates.(Staying calm is really the hard part,IMO)

If he isn't ready to go to sleep at bedtime, i wonder if it is time to cut down his afternoon nap. One of the things I did with my oldest(my ADD child) was change my expectations--he didn't have to go to sleep, but he did have to be quiet. We changed nap-time to "rest-time", which did not require him to go to sleep, but he had to play with quiet toys. If I had to speak to him, he had to stay in his room until Daddy came home. (It really did not take long to get through to him.) I child-proofed his room and allowed him to get out of bed if he wanted, as long as he was quiet. He actually did nap severl days a week. We had the same rule for bed: quiet, stay in room, if I have to come up then you lose toys, story,etc. Many, many nights he would fall asleep on the floor playing with toys, but he stayed in his room.

My youngest(10) still does that. He is severely mentally handicapped so there is no reasoning with him. We turn off the lights and shut the door. He usually plays for awhile,then falls asleep when he gets bored enough.Sometimes I have to haul him back into bed because he fell asleep in a pile of toys. But I will not keep going back or trying to reason with him. It's pointless and aggravating, and it prolongs the bed-going.

 

[brymolmom]

I'm with you guys still going through the tantrums. I've got a 3 year old ds and a 2 year old dd. 3 year old is mostly mild mannered and well behaved but very whiney (which drives me just as nuts). The 2 year old is a total drama queen and will freak out screaming if I don't let her (for instance) 'play' with the scissors that are up, out of reach, on the counter. I had to start time outs with her at a very young age, but they do, seem to help some of the time. Not sure if this would work for everyone but initially she wouldn't stay in the timeout chair, so I put her in 'baby jail' (a pack n play we had setup next to the timeout chair). That got to her quickly - she was 'locked' in and couldn't leave. Another suggestion that I've read for those of you who have kids that won't sit in timeout (therefore making it nearly impossible to ignore the tantrums) - is to make a safe room as previously mentioned (preferably with no toys or distractions in it) and then put a child proof door handle on the inside of it - to prevent them from escaping from the room. It's likely to cause distress and make the tantrums worse for the first few times, but they will likely learn that the quicker they quiet down, the sooner you will let them out from timeout. Just an idea if you want to ignore but aren't able to do so.

Hang in there everyone - very normal behavior. They're just looking for their boundaries and we need to teach them what those boundaries are - even if they kick and scream all the while.

 

[100AcreWood]

This is definitely a challenging age! I joke with my friends how could anyone with a 2 or 3 year old even think of getting pregnant!

Dd's 2 year preschool teacher gave me advice about bedtime when we were going through a challenging time. She suggested a very long bedtime ritual that we consistently do every night. So for us it starts with a long bath (30 mins or until she wants to get out). Then, we move to a nice snack with TV for 30 mins (nothing too exciting). Then, we brush teeth and read three stories. I also turn on lullaby music which I change around every week or so. You may want to try another type of sound though. Sometimes music can be too stimulating. If dd had an exciting day I use the babbling brook CD and that seems to help sometimes! Then I lay down with her until she falls asleep (my own choice - but I work and I like the extra time with her). It works for us.

Don't get me wrong we still rough nights here and there! And when they're rough, they're rough!

Good luck!

 

[carmel]

Bedtime routines....

I mentioned that my first daughter was easy. She was extremely easy. However, I used to get frustrated at bedtime. I would put her down then become upset that she wasn't asleep within 10 minutes. Being a first-time Mom, I thought the world would come crashing down if I got her off schedule. That was silly. I leared to put her in her crib with a few books and mayb a quiet toy and she played a while and fell asleep.

I'm not saying you are silly at all. I was told by my peds that if you can't get them to fall asleep, quiet and restful time alone in their room is a good second.

If you son gets out of bed, maybe that is okay. He will play and then realize he is tired. Put him down once, check on him periodically but don't force the issue of making him lie down. Once he realizes that lying down is HIS choice, he is probably more likely to do it on his own.

Oh, by the way, my daughter was up early and dressed herself with no problems. She ran into daycare and was beaming. Her teachers made a huge deal out of how proud they were of her for getting dressed and not causing us to be late. She got to wear a special sticker. I was proud of her too!