HBO, Mormons square off over sacred rite

[bicker]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29623424/

We're discussing this in another forum. In that forum, some of the LDS contend that if you're not LDS you cannot possibly understand how sacred these rights are to them. What do you think? Is it possible that LDS hold their sacred rites so much more deeply than the rest of us, such that we cannot ourselves possibly hold anything so sacred so as to understand what their rites mean to them?

 

[All American]

As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I believe the temple, and all that goes on within it (especially marriage), to be the most sacred thing I know. As for others, I do not believe people of other faiths or life experiences cannot understand the depth of those feelings. Everyone holds something sacred in their heart--witnessing the birth of a child or the passing of a loved one, for example. Members of my church do not own the patent to the idea of "sacred", but what is sacred to us may not be so to others and vice versa. In the end, we all have things we hold dear that we don't want to be taken lightly by others, so we treasure it in our hearts or write about it in a journal.

As for the idea of "squaring off", I have not done so. I don't see the point. If you are interested, this is the official response from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints regarding the matter and my "final answer". (Sorry, I don't know how to link the response.)


http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/the-publicity-dilemma

*taking a deep breath and hitting "submit"* because I know how well threads like this can go. . .

 

[rie'smom]

2 things:

1. I guess maybe no one who isn't knowledgeable about their faith can comprehend what their ceremony means to them.

2. Only church members in good standing can enter temples to perform or witness the sacred rites. So is it tow the line or you're shunned?

 

[SwedishMeatball]

Your question is confusing. It depends on if they are referring to their specific rites, or rites in general. Many could relate to their personal rites being meaningful to them in a way that outsiders wouldn't understand, but it is not necessarily presuming that other people don't hold their own rites in an equally meaningful way.

 

[diznygirl]

2 things:

1. I guess maybe no one who isn't knowledgeable about their faith can comprehend what their ceremony means to them.

2. Only church members in good standing can enter temples to perform or witness the sacred rites. So is it tow the line or you're shunned?

"Good Standing" = "Paid in Full"


I have a friend who left the church cuz she couldn't afford the sacredness of the inside of the temple.

 

[Glynis]

I think that one thing that is confusing to members of my church (Mormon), is that Big Love depicts a polygamous family. They are not members of the Mormon church, so why the show is depicting a Mormon rite is confusing. It kind of blurs the line for us. Polygamy was abolished a long time ago in our church, so no polygamists enter our temples. They do have their own temples, and their own rites that take place in them. I don't understand why Big Love is not showing those rites, instead of rites that wouldn't be practiced by polygamists.

 

[Goofyluver]

I understand these rites to be exclusionary, even within the LDS church itself. This is what I cannot comprehend. If the goal is to spread the message of the religion and encourage conversion to the ideals of the church, why limit the exposure of not only outsiders but members themselves?

In this case, the message of the church appears to be more exclusive than inclusive. Is this what is considered sacred?

 

[bicker]

Your question is confusing. It depends on if they are referring to their specific rites, or rites in general. Many could relate to their personal rites being meaningful to them in a way that outsiders wouldn't understand, but it is not necessarily presuming that other people don't hold their own rites in an equally meaningful way.

The question was whether or not people who are non-LDS can "understand" holding something as sacred as LDS hold their temple rites, or instead that the nature of how LDS hold their temple rites sacred is so different from how other people hold what they hold sacred sacred.

So.... "in general".

 

[Glynis]

I understand these rites to be exclusionary, even within the LDS church itself. This is what I cannot comprehend. If the goal is to spread the message of the religion and encourage conversion to the ideals of the church, why limit the exposure of not only outsiders but members themselves?

In this case, the message of the church appears to be more exclusive than inclusive. Is this what is considered sacred?

We do not exclude anyone from participating in these rites, but we do ask that they be spiritually prepared for them. To us, they are sacred, and not entered into lightly. Therefore, anyone who wants to participate in them must be a member in good standing, and be in a frame of mind that is humble and teachable.

 

[rie'smom]

I think that one thing that is confusing to members of my church (Mormon), is that Big Love depicts a polygamous family. They are not members of the Mormon church, so why the show is depicting a Mormon rite is confusing. It kind of blurs the line for us. Polygamy was abolished a long time ago in our church, so no polygamists enter our temples. They do have their own temples, and their own rites that take place in them. I don't understand why Big Love is not showing those rites, instead of rites that wouldn't be practiced by polygamists.

Sounds like a couple of offshootes of Catholicism-not the polygamy part but there are sects that call themselves Catholic even though they don't follow the tenets of the Church. They make them up as they go along.

The question was whether or not people who are non-LDS can "understand" holding something as sacred as LDS hold their temple rites, or instead that the nature of how LDS hold their temple rites sacred is so different from how other people hold what they hold sacred sacred.

So.... "in general".

sacred-entitled to repsect and reverence
worthy of religious veneration

We may not hold the same things sacred but every faith has ideals or rituals and ceremonies that are sacred to them.

 

[Glynis]

Sounds like a couple of offshootes of Catholicism-not the polygamy part but there are sects that call themselves Catholic even though they don't follow the tenets of the Church. They make them up as they go along.




sacred-entitled to repsect and reverence
worthy of religious veneration

We may not hold the same things sacred but every faith has ideals or rituals and ceremonies that are sacred to them.

I think you are right with both of your above statements. I love the way you have worded your second statement, so I bolded it! I may be a member of the Mormon church, but I find much that is sacred in the other religions that I have studied (and I have studied a lot of them). I wouldn't like any religion held up to ridicule or scorn. It doesn't do anybody any good.

 

[Goofyluver]

We do not exclude anyone from participating in these rites, but we do ask that they be spiritually prepared for them. To us, they are sacred, and not entered into lightly. Therefore, anyone who wants to participate in them must be a member in good standing, and be in a frame of mind that is humble and teachable.

Humble and teachable?

 

[rie'smom]

Humble and teachable?

willing to learn and not feeling like they know everything already

 

[bicker]

I agree, Glynis. One of the points that keep coming up is that there is no indication that the episode will involve any ridicule or scorn. The program has a long history of dealing with LDS (especially) in a sensitive manner. Some contend that a respectful, accurate depiction of what really would happen in the scenario of the episode would, unequivocally, constitute mocking. While, I think most of us can understand how LDS would see it that way, what I find objectionable is how some LDS cannot grant that other folks can understand their perspective while still seeing the opposing side of the coin at the same time.

 

[Glynis]

willing to learn and not feeling like they know everything already

Exactly.

There are things we learn on a weekly basis in our church meetings that prepare us for temple worship. Someone not of our faith would not understand the temple rites without that prior knowledge.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

I believe that sacred is a personal definition and those things, events, rites, ect. that I deem sacred are as deeply spiritual to me as those sacred things are to a member of the LDS community.

I believe that one sometimes has to be a member of a given group to fully appreciate the nuances of a rite that is particular to that group.

For example, in Trinity, Leon Uris describes one of the protagonist's distress at hearing the rosary being said. I believe that it takes an RC to fully appreciate all the nuances of that distress, but that others can fully understand that the protagonist is distressed.

So, my sacred is as meaningful to me, most definitely. In general, of course.

 

[Goofyluver]

Exactly.

There are things we learn on a weekly basis in our church meetings that prepare us for temple worship. Someone not of our faith would not understand the temple rites without that prior knowledge.

Yes. That's what they taught me when I was a member of the Mormon church.

 

[bicker]

I believe that it takes an [LDS] to fully appreciate all the nuances of that distress, but that others can fully understand that the [LDS] is distressed.

This is a great statement (projected back into the target of the thread), and really crystallizes the issue for me.

 

[maleficent1959]

I think that one thing that is confusing to members of my church (Mormon), is that Big Love depicts a polygamous family. They are not members of the Mormon church, so why the show is depicting a Mormon rite is confusing. It kind of blurs the line for us. Polygamy was abolished a long time ago in our church, so no polygamists enter our temples. They do have their own temples, and their own rites that take place in them. I don't understand why Big Love is not showing those rites, instead of rites that wouldn't be practiced by polygamists.

The first wife grew up LDS, and she and her husband were sealed in a temple marriage. I think they left the Mormon church long about the time he talked her into polygamy and took a second wife -- can't imagine why they stopped

I haven't seen the episode, but doesn't it have something to do with either the first temple marriage or some kind of re-sealing (if that's a real thing)?

 

[Glynis]

I agree, Glynis. One of the points that keep coming up is that there is no indication that the episode will involve any ridicule or scorn. The program has a long history of dealing with LDS (especially) in a sensitive manner. Some contend that a respectful, accurate depiction of what really would happen in the scenario of the episode would, unequivocally, constitute mocking. While, I think most of us can understand how LDS would see it that way, what I find objectionable is how some LDS cannot grant that other folks can understand their perspective while still seeing the opposing side of the coin at the same time.

I hope that you are right and that the episode will be a respectful depiction. I think that a lot of Mormon's are mistrustful of how we are portrayed in the media because of past experience.