Have you seen this?

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

i did not read all of the posts, so I don't know if anyone else said something similar....but The families on both sized were victims in this. The kids of the biker who was run over still have a permanently disabled dad. The family of the driver may never be able to look at a person on a motorcycle without fear. None of them asked for it, but they must deal with it anyway. I don't think the family of the biker deserve contempt or any less of our sympathy than the driver's family do. Just saying....

I would agree with you about the bikers family not deserving our contempt right until they go on interviews trying to blame the actual victim. Then I say all bets are off.

 

[luvmy3]

I can't speak for anyone else but yes I do. I see it as two different incidents, the first on the highway and the second when he stopped. I do not interpret the video on the highway as a violent situation admittedly it is not a good view. Based on my own personal experience I don't see what most here see, I wonder how many here have any personal experience with a situation like this to make a legitimate interpretation. I believe that a couple snapped after they seen their friend get run over. I don't think what happened either time supports the mob mentality claims so many here have made, even the second time it was only a couple of people not a mob. To me the situation is like two people arguing one pulls a gun the other pulls his and shoots, the first person then says see I was right to pull my gun because eventually he would of shot me even though he was the one that escalated the situation.

What
Except this incident is nothing like an argument between 2 people. There was an innocent family driving down the road minding their own business and a group of thugs looking to cause trouble and they targeted that innocent family.

 

[JakeJenna]

double post

 

[JakeJenna]

And you don't think that its even remotely possible that these animals would have done the same thing on the highway had he not taken off? Seriously? You don't think it is remotely possible that they were doing things that had him frightened for his and his family's safety which is what caused him to take off and run over that guy?

No one "snapped", they did exactly what they planned to do. I don't know about "mob" mentality but its certainly thug mentality.


Besides, most sane, law abiding people would have been back on the highway with their injured friend and given he police the van's tag number.


Have you ever been around an actual motorcycle gang?-- There is most definitely a gang mentality there. They most definitely "protect" their own, They problem is they protect their own even when its their own that was being a threat.

I agree with most of what you said, I've never defended the men who beat him and I've never said they were right to chase him the way they did. Thinking he overreacted and thinking he shouldn't be in trouble are not mutually exclusive. I though George Zimmerman overreacted, didn't think he should have been prosecuted either. Though I have never rode a bike I did work as a bouncer in a club that hosted a bike night every week. I feel like I can read a situation pretty well, and while I have never been in this particular situation I have been outnumbered many times. The biggest reason I say he overreacted is even if the situation had escalated he could of done the same thing he did, which was drive out of the situation.

 

[DisneyMomx7]

I would agree with you about the bikers family not deserving our contempt right until they go on interviews trying to blame the actual victim. Then I say all bets are off.

Completely agree - I don't want to hear the bikers called "victims". The real victims were in the SUV.

I can't imagine any rational person that wouldn't have gunned it for all it was worth to get their family out of that situation. Bullies - savages - animals.

 

[luvsJack]

I agree with most of what you said, I've never defended the men who beat him and I've never said they were right to chase him the way they did. Thinking he overreacted and thinking he shouldn't be in trouble are not mutually exclusive. I though George Zimmerman overreacted, didn't think he should have been prosecuted either. Though I have never rode a bike I did work as a bouncer in a club that hosted a bike night every week. I feel like I can read a situation pretty well, and while I have never been in this particular situation I have been outnumbered many times. The biggest reason I say he overreacted is even if the situation had escalated he could of done the same thing he did, which was drive out of the situation.

Why wait until it escalated? If he felt threatened, he needed do something right then especially considering his child was in the car.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I would agree with you about the bikers family not deserving our contempt right until they go on interviews trying to blame the actual victim. Then I say all bets are off.

Totally agree!

As for my conversations about this with JakeJenna, I'm done. I still can't believe you think he overreacted when his car was already surrounded and they were slashing his tires, but there is obviously no changing your mind.

 

[mhsjax]

i did not read all of the posts, so I don't know if anyone else said something similar....but
The families on both sized were victims in this. The kids of the biker who was run over still have a permanently disabled dad. The family of the driver may never be able to look at a person on a motorcycle without fear. None of them asked for it, but they must deal with it anyway. I don't think the family of the biker deserve contempt or any less of our sympathy than the driver's family do.
Just saying....

Sorry but when you enter into a mob mentality and attack people, yes you do ask for it and you suffer the consequences.

 

[brockash]

I can't speak for anyone else but yes I do. I see it as two different incidents, the first on the highway and the second when he stopped. I do not interpret the video on the highway as a violent situation admittedly it is not a good view. Based on my own personal experience I don't see what most here see, I wonder how many here have any personal experience with a situation like this to make a legitimate interpretation. I believe that a couple snapped after they seen their friend get run over. I don't think what happened either time supports the mob mentality claims so many here have made, even the second time it was only a couple of people not a mob. To me the situation is like two people arguing one pulls a gun the other pulls his and shoots, the first person then says see I was right to pull my gun because eventually he would of shot me even though he was the one that escalated the situation.

INSANE, INSANE...this "thinking" is completely nuts and incorrect....how is a mob of bikers surrounding and stopping a vehicle on the middle of the highway and then attempting to slash the vehicles tires and then one guy actually opening the SUV's door not an escalated incident??? My gosh, how much farther did it need to go? You can clearly see on one of the video's that the SUV took off as soon as one of the guys opened his car door. You have to be just screwing with everyone...there's just no way

 

[brockash]

i did not read all of the posts, so I don't know if anyone else said something similar....but
The families on both sized were victims in this. The kids of the biker who was run over still have a permanently disabled dad. The family of the driver may never be able to look at a person on a motorcycle without fear. None of them asked for it, but they must deal with it anyway. I don't think the family of the biker deserve contempt or any less of our sympathy than the driver's family do.
Just saying....

Wrong...the ***hole on the bike who was part of the mob of bikers that physically stopped a vehicle much larger then their own in the middle of the highway did nothing but ask for it (they all did, and should all be held accountable). They tormented and made a very dangerous situation for all, including an innocent family. Do I feel sorry for the biker's kids? Of course (who couldn't help but feel extremely sad and sorry for all of those losers kids), but let's be real, after seeing this idiot's judgment and his horrendous characteristic of enjoying bringing fear and harm to others, these kids didn't have a good parent to start out with and had I known them, I would have already felt bad for them. Perhaps this incident will turn his life around, although judging by his wife's (partner whatever, kids mom) attitude, I'm sure the kids are still screwed in life.

I don't feel bad for his wife (partner) at all, in fact I am completely repulsed by the sight of her. She obviously has seen the video and knows what happened, yet she's going to try to make the true victim's of this crime out to be the villains...disgusting. And again, let's be real, she's the idiot who chose to have children with a criminal (as I recall he's had multiple run-in's with the law and arrests in the past...although not surprising in the least bit), and really it's pretty likely that this "partner" has her own criminal history...so no I feel nothing but disgust for her and I feel extremely fearful for the children involved.

If there are families of the bikers that weren't aware of their "loved one's" activities and don't condone their despicable behavior, then of course it wouldn't be right to blame them.

 

[aaarcher86]

There is a justice for Alex Lien page on FB. It has a screenshot of one of the biker's Twitters talking about the incident. He clearly states the Rover took off after they punched the mirror and surrounded the car.

Still not enough to take off though I suppose :-/

 

[JakeJenna]

INSANE, INSANE...this "thinking" is completely nuts and incorrect....how is a mob of bikers surrounding and stopping a vehicle on the middle of the highway and then attempting to slash the vehicles tires and then one guy actually opening the SUV's door not an escalated incident??? My gosh, how much farther did it need to go? You can clearly see on one of the video's that the SUV took off as soon as one of the guys opened his car door. You have to be just screwing with everyone...there's just no way

Can you clearly see that? That post on the Facebook page says he took off when they hit his mirror. Are you sure that's not what you can see? The victims wife I believe said they were hitting the car and slashed the tires nothing about opening the door at that point IIRC.

 

[dakcp2001]

Can you clearly see that? That post on the Facebook page says he took off when they hit his mirror. Are you sure that's not what you can see? The victims wife I believe said they were hitting the car and slashed the tires nothing about opening the door at that point IIRC.

In one of the videos it is clear they were trying to pull the door open BEFORE he drove over them. That video was pulled from youtube but the police have it. They got what they deserved. You go out looking for trouble, don't get mad when you find it.

Not sure why you are so desperate to grasp at straws to try to convince yourself these bikers aren't the dirtbags they clearly have shown themselves to be. If seeing it on video is not enough for you, nothing ever will be. Please google all their other videos. There are several others who had their cars surrounded, damaged, and physical altercations. DIRTBAGS. That is who these people are. Nothing more than low life criminals.

 

[Albort]

I can't speak for anyone else but yes I do. I see it as two different incidents, the first on the highway and the second when he stopped. I do not interpret the video on the highway as a violent situation admittedly it is not a good view. Based on my own personal experience I don't see what most here see, I wonder how many here have any personal experience with a situation like this to make a legitimate interpretation. I believe that a couple snapped after they seen their friend get run over. I don't think what happened either time supports the mob mentality claims so many here have made, even the second time it was only a couple of people not a mob. To me the situation is like two people arguing one pulls a gun the other pulls his and shoots, the first person then says see I was right to pull my gun because eventually he would of shot me even though he was the one that escalated the situation.

your story is more like Green Tshirt guy(+ little green t shirt boy) arguing with Red Tshirt guy in a club, then Green Tshirt is surrounded by 50 Red Tshirt guy. Both draw their guns, then Green Tshirt guy sees someone coming at them with a knife, and then another with the glow stick so Green shirt shoots to defend himself and his little boy...

I'm wondering if he's not the undercover cop? Or was influenced by the cop to post it all on YouTube. It's a perfect way for a cop to record all the drug stuff going on around and no one paying much attention to it after a while, as they would if a cell phone camera was pulled out.

Makes me wonder if its really meant to look bad on the SUV driver, but it backfired on them...

 

[Imzadi]

I can't speak for anyone else but yes I do. I see it as two different incidents, the first on the highway and the second when he stopped. I do not interpret the video on the highway as a violent situation admittedly it is not a good view. Based on my own personal experience I don't see what most here see, I wonder how many here have any personal experience with a situation like this to make a legitimate interpretation. I believe that a couple snapped after they seen their friend get run over. I don't think what happened either time supports the mob mentality claims so many here have made, even the second time it was only a couple of people not a mob. To me the situation is like two people arguing one pulls a gun the other pulls his and shoots, the first person then says see I was right to pull my gun because eventually he would of shot me even though he was the one that escalated the situation.

You are incorrect, it all is ONE incident. One that started when the bikers surrounded the SUV and kept escalating.

If you are a bouncer at a bar as you claim, then you have experienced more violence than the average person. Certainly more than this couple ever experienced before.

It is also erroneous to say "a couple snapped." 20-30 bikers chased and surrounded the SUV at it's final destination at 178th St, and a few of them were smashing out ALL the windows trying to get at the family. When the one man did pull out the driver, not ONE of his riding buddies stopped him.

PLUS: the NYPD has released yet TWO more pictures of people they want in for questioning, as of this posting.


Yes, I have been in life threatening situations. I have also been a victim of road rage. I do how to interpret this situation from such a place. You can do a DIS search, I have stated several times on the DIS that I have learned to shoot a gun, assistant coached martial arts & self defense, and also counsel abused & battered women. Prior life experiences often make people choose particular life paths. Some people become criminals because of what was done to them. Some people become victims for life and some of us work to stop or change the scars & effects of what these kind of events do to people.

The absolute fear that someone may kill you is horrendous. You realize how fragile your life is, while you realize how vulnerable and defenseless you are while your life is in someone else's power. And that is facing ONE person, let alone 30. You also go into a hyper-vigilant mode, which Gavin de Becker describes excellently in his book, The Gift of FEAR. That, in that moment, using one's instinct & intuition of FEAR wisely can save a person's life. As was used in the SUV driver's situation to ESCAPE when he did to save his family after someone pulled out a deadly weapon and his tires were knifed.

Had they stayed, there was every chance they would have been pulled out of the SUV ON the WS Hwy, and there would NOT have been a couple by-standers/Good Samaritans, who said the ONLY reason the savages stopped is because HE stopped them.

We often say when counseling victims is: that whatever they did in the moment was the right thing, as they survived. They are ALIVE. They got the hell out of there and rode to a street where a Good Samaritan risked his own life to save the driver and his wife.

Gavin de Becker says, as well as something we learn in counseling is that there will ALWAYS be people who blame the VICTIMS. And a great deal of counseling has to deal with how the victims of crimes blame themselves. "What if I had done things differently?"

Sometimes, when we track it back, the only thing people could have done differently is not get out of bed that day. People often blame themselves and other people blame them because if the could have have done something differently, then maybe they could have prevented the situation. If you could have done things differently, it means you can CONTROL THE OUTCOME ahead of time.

For some people, the understanding that there is a dangerous world out there that we can't control, that some events are random and unpredictable is often terrifying. That the world is sometimes filled with evil situations we cannot foresee, control or change the events of. People would rather hold on to their beliefs of being able to control events and blaming the victims.

I was watching Oprah today. Guest, Brene Brown, who was teaching an episode on Vulnerability - the good kind, where vulnerability is a strength, gave an excellent quote by Pres. Theodore Roosevelt back in 1910. I LOVE IT.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds. . ."
~ Theodore Roosevelt​

Yes, critics will criticize this SUV driver. But he pro-actively took action, right, wrong, some accidental, and his family are alive and he is hurt much less, due to a Good Samaritan who was there because he ran.

Brene Brown also had another quote of her own. She was talking about people she calls Twitter Thugs. (I prefer to call them Internet trolls.) People who sit back in life and don't engage, but boy, do they make a lot of comments, just to stir up trouble. They offer nothing positive, enlightening, encouraging or inspiring. Being a troll is their only power, and quite transparent when your realize them for what little they are.

Brene: "If you are not in the arena [of Life] getting your butt kicked, I'm not interested in your feedback."

She means, (not speaking to anyone in particular here,) if Trolls aren't going to get out there and do Life, take risks, have passion, experience joy, don't sit on the sidelines and criticize
how other people are risking, being vulnerable and LIVING Life! Yeah, they are going to get some things wrong, fall on their faces, run over a few people (literally ) but they are out there doing! :dance3

I would agree with you about the bikers family not deserving our contempt right until they go on interviews trying to blame the actual victim. Then I say all bets are off.

Apparently the apples don't fall far from the tree. Dad should have taught them about accountability for one's bad actions. But, since Dad has a 6 page rap sheet, I kind of think he skipped that lesson.

I can't imagine any rational person that wouldn't have gunned it for all it was worth to get their family out of that situation. Bullies - savages - animals.

Why wait until it escalated? If he felt threatened, he needed do something right then especially considering his child was in the car.

Yes, as soon as some biker took out a deadly weapon and escalated the situation by slashing the tires, that WAS the sign to get out of there - especially before the tire went flat and they lost total mobility.

By the way, the guy who was arraigned for brake checking and caused the whole thing, one of the charges he is for unlawful imprisonment. It makes me wonder if the guy who was paralyzed wasn't standing in front of the SUV, also unlawfully trying to keep the SUV from moving when he got hit?

 

[Imzadi]

In one of the videos it is clear they were trying to pull the door open BEFORE he drove over them. That video was pulled from youtube but the police have it. They got what they deserved. You go out looking for trouble, don't get mad when you find it.

If you read his previous posts, he doesn't look at videos. He doesn't read the local news stories by the reporters here, who were actually on the streets of NYC and interviewing the NYPD and Police Commissioner, as he doesn't think they are credible. He's just interested in stirring up trouble and getting people to post back. That is where he gets his sense of power from.

It's obvious the NYPD doesn't agree with him. And they've experienced more violence than this guy claims to have experienced.

There is a justice for Alex Lien page on FB. It has a screenshot of one of the biker's Twitters talking about the incident. He clearly states the Rover took off after they punched the mirror and surrounded the car.

Still not enough to take off though I suppose :-/

Yes, there is clear video footage of Robert Sims opening the door. He has turned himself in to the NYPD yesterday. I mentioned this yesterday: The 35 year old man, Robert Sims, who tried to open the SUV's door, is now being charged with GANG ASSAULT and WEAPONS CHARGES.

Yes, the tires were slashed. Even the Good Samaritan mentioned he saw the tire FLAT on the one side that he could see, when he first came upon the scene, as someone was dragging the wife out of the car. Comm Kelly mentioned in his press briefing said tires, plural.

 

[mhsjax]

Can you clearly see that? That post on the Facebook page says he took off when they hit his mirror. Are you sure that's not what you can see? The victims wife I believe said they were hitting the car and slashed the tires nothing about opening the door at that point IIRC.

Ok, first of all, why in the world you you believe anything on FB that was written by any of these biker thugs.

2nd, even if it was true, at what point would you take off to protect your wife and 2 year old. They were slashing tires, do you think they were just having a little party with this guy? I mean SERIOUSLY? Unbelievable.

 

[FireDancer]

Saw an alert on FB by ABC news that the guy who videotaped the whole thing is now receiving death threats. My how the animals have turned on each other. I'm sure that guy gets plenty of slaps on the back when he films their stunts and them terrorizing drivers.

Good, let the animals kill each other. The more of those bikers that die or get paralyzed the better for society. I'm a little sad it was only one. Every single one in the group is just as guilty as the ones the pulled the victim from the car, even if they were undercover cops.

The only down side to animals like this turning on each other is that often innocent people get hurt or killed too. I look at it like gangs. If they want to kill each other great. The more of them that kill each other the better for humanity. Unfortunately they manage to hit a 6 year old and grandma while they are shooting at their targets so it isn't as nice as it could be if they just learned to aim.

Hopefully the good that comes from this whole situation is two-fold. First, the police will get proactive and try to stop the gangs before citizens have to call 911 in a panic. Second, when a car is surrounded by a group of bikers looking for trouble the driver is also pro-active. Stay on the freeway, call 911, and start using your car to knock as many of them off their bikes as you can before they can get you. Every single member of the group is just as guilty as every other member, even if they are just sitting in the back of the group and watching.

I would agree with you about the bikers family not deserving our contempt right until they go on interviews trying to blame the actual victim. Then I say all bets are off.

I agree. The family is also an innocent victim until they try to blame anyone other then their criminal family member. Then they are no better then he is/was.

 

[bellebud]

You are incorrect, it all is ONE incident. One that started when the bikers surrounded the SUV and kept escalating.

If you are a bouncer at a bar as you claim, then you have experienced more violence than the average person. Certainly more than this couple ever experienced before.

It is also erroneous to say "a couple snapped." 20-30 bikers chased and surrounded the SUV at it's final destination at 178th St, and a few of them were smashing out ALL the windows trying to get at the family. When the one man did pull out the driver, not ONE of his riding buddies stopped him.

PLUS: the NYPD has released yet TWO more pictures of people they want in for questioning, as of this posting.


Yes, I have been in life threatening situations. I have also been a victim of road rage. I do how to interpret this situation from such a place. You can do a DIS search, I have stated several times on the DIS that I have learned to shoot a gun, assistant coached martial arts & self defense, and also counsel abused & battered women. Prior life experiences often make people choose particular life paths. Some people become criminals because of what was done to them. Some people become victims for life and some of us work to stop or change the scars & effects of what these kind of events do to people.

The absolute fear that someone may kill you is horrendous. You realize how fragile your life is, while you realize how vulnerable and defenseless you are while your life is in someone else's power. And that is facing ONE person, let alone 30. You also go into a hyper-vigilant mode, which Gavin de Becker describes excellently in his book, The Gift of FEAR. That, in that moment, using one's instinct & intuition of FEAR wisely can save a person's life. As was used in the SUV driver's situation to ESCAPE when he did to save his family after someone pulled out a deadly weapon and his tires were knifed.

Had they stayed, there was every chance they would have been pulled out of the SUV ON the WS Hwy, and there would NOT have been a couple by-standers/Good Samaritans, who said the ONLY reason the savages stopped is because HE stopped them.

We often say when counseling victims is: that whatever they did in the moment was the right thing, as they survived. They are ALIVE. They got the hell out of there and rode to a street where a Good Samaritan risked his own life to save the driver and his wife.

Gavin de Becker says, as well as something we learn in counseling is that there will ALWAYS be people who blame the VICTIMS. And a great deal of counseling has to deal with how the victims of crimes blame themselves. "What if I had done things differently?"

Sometimes, when we track it back, the only thing people could have done differently is not get out of bed that day. People often blame themselves and other people blame them because if the could have have done something differently, then maybe they could have prevented the situation. If you could have done things differently, it means you can CONTROL THE OUTCOME ahead of time.

For some people, the understanding that there is a dangerous world out there that we can't control, that some events are random and unpredictable is often terrifying. That the world is sometimes filled with evil situations we cannot foresee, control or change the events of. People would rather hold on to their beliefs of being able to control events and blaming the victims.

I was watching Oprah today. Guest, Brene Brown, who was teaching an episode on Vulnerability - the good kind, where vulnerability is a strength, gave an excellent quote by Pres. Theodore Roosevelt back in 1910. I LOVE IT.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds. . ."
~ Theodore Roosevelt​

Yes, critics will criticize this SUV driver. But he pro-actively took action, right, wrong, some accidental, and his family are alive and he is hurt much less, due to a Good Samaritan who was there because he ran.

Brene Brown also had another quote of her own. She was talking about people she calls Twitter Thugs. (I prefer to call them Internet trolls.) People who sit back in life and don't engage, but boy, do they make a lot of comments, just to stir up trouble. They offer nothing positive, enlightening, encouraging or inspiring. Being a troll is their only power, and quite transparent when your realize them for what little they are.

Brene: "If you are not in the arena [of Life] getting your butt kicked, I'm not interested in your feedback."

She means, (not speaking to anyone in particular here,) if Trolls aren't going to get out there and do Life, take risks, have passion, experience joy, don't sit on the sidelines and criticize
how other people are risking, being vulnerable and LIVING Life! Yeah, they are going to get some things wrong, fall on their faces, run over a few people (literally ) but they are out there doing! :dance3




Apparently the apples don't fall far from the tree. Dad should have taught them about accountability for one's bad actions. But, since Dad has a 6 page rap sheet, I kind of think he skipped that lesson.






Yes, as soon as some biker took out a deadly weapon and escalated the situation by slashing the tires, that WAS the sign to get out of there - especially before the tire went flat and they lost total mobility.

By the way, the guy who was arraigned for brake checking and caused the whole thing, one of the charges he is for unlawful imprisonment. It makes me wonder if the guy who was paralyzed wasn't standing in front of the SUV, also unlawfully trying to keep the SUV from moving when he got hit?

Great point! Don't stand in front of a vehicle on a highway... it's quite simple!

 

[aaarcher86]

Can you clearly see that? That post on the Facebook page says he took off when they hit his mirror. Are you sure that's not what you can see? The victims wife I believe said they were hitting the car and slashed the tires nothing about opening the door at that point IIRC.

Why would you need to see it on a video if one of the bikers freely talking about the incident on Twitter discussed how the Rover took off after the car was physically attacked?