Have questions re: college tuition/loans for DD

[bballmom56]

If you are rolling over and letting an institution "tell you" it is a requirement for merit/talent money, I feel sorry for you. I would not darken the hallways of any institution that would require me to fill out a FEDERAL form for aid for something that has nothing to do with Federal or state aid at all.

We are the types who question everything and would certainly want to know the reason this was required when we can find quite a few institutions that do not make such a requirement. Of course there are those who think that a child can only get a college degree with a school loan. Sad...very sad I tell you.

Nope, not rolling over. No need to feel sorry for me either. My kids both got/are getting an excellent education at the college of their choice. They will graduate with no debt because of their scholarships and money we had saved. Had we not filled out the FAFSA the college would say no problem - there just would not have been any merit money awarded. Then we would either have to take loans (which we didn't want to do) or they could not have attended the college which would have been a loss for them. And that would have been really stupid just to avoid filling out a form.

 

[agnes!]

Although at most colleges we have checked and the FAFSA is NOT required for purely merit/talent scholarships. I'm just not comfortable divulging financial information for no good reason, confidential or not.

I feel sorry for those people who have been brainwashed into thinking that FAFSA is a requirement. Many of those who think that way are being led to believe this by college admission/aid staff that receive a healthy back-end bonus for those who apply for and receive aid.

Quite shameful really. We will never fill it out for our DD and there will absolutely be no limits on her options unless she brings it on herself.

ALL GRANTS DO NOT REQUIRE FASFA. There are such private grants do not require the filling out of this form. Not all grants are made with federal involvement. I will decide what is best for my child. You have made it quite clear that you look down at people who would DARE send their child to a community college. There are educational opportunities that do not require an IVY league education. It is far worse to burden a child with any loan or sacrifice your retirement at the risk of a child's education. Some people just cannot imagine actually you know paying for college without any assistance.

This came up on Dave Ramsey a few weeks ago and he and I and DP are in agreement on this. There is NO requirement for you to fill out this form for the institutions we are looking at. There are going to be those who will go through college get a degree and spend their lives working for someone else. Our life and our teaching and belief is to be the employer and not the employee. You can get this without a silly form.

Why? Because we are not going to have her rely on federal or state aid to pay for college? How about the fact that we expect DD to work for it and pay for her education herself with possible private grants from DP and I as well as other sources. Our intent is to possibly reward $$$ based on grades and performance and other incentives after her first year.

I admit, I'm wondering what a "private grant" from a parent to a child actually is. (Isn't it still a "grant" or even a "gift" or "allowance"?) Do you mean that you are going to actually give your DD the money directly (but only after the first year of college)? Or do you mean that you are applying to private foundations and institutions that do not (at least now) require any sort of Federal documentation? Just because something is so at this moment doesn't mean it will remain unchanged in the future. What will you & your DP do if these institutions change their procedures a short while before your young child is ready for college/university/community college/whatever? Is it just that you bear ill-will toward all types of governmental grants/loans/aid?

We don't believe in taking out loans of any kind nor do we believe in relying on the government or the state to get us to where we are in life.

You can resent it all you like, but we happen to appreciate that DP and I both paid for our education through hard work and dedication and graduated owing nothing to anyone. It is a far more rotten and horrible thing to have someone graduate college and be enslaved by college loans.

Sorry I am not Google. You can do your own research. I have and know there is absolutely no way we will fill out the FAFSA nor will we encourage anyone to do the same. You are obviously clueless about this and as you have already made it clear, anyone who would consider a community college is beneath you. Not going to waste my time responding to your silly beliefs.

And sorry, but I'm not sure the way to bring others into your way of thinking is:
to call their beliefs
silly
to say that if they follow a different path they will be
enslaved
to call a form that is being recommended by others
silly
to infer that those who disagree with you
will go through college and only work for others
to call people who fill out this supposedly "silly" form
brainwashed
and that all the people who disagree with you have been led (like sheep, I assume?) to this state of mind by college admission personnel who are basically being
bribed.

Quite shameful, really.
agnes!

 

[LisaR]

After some internet know it all claimed on here in January that you could NOT get a scholarship without it, we began to do research and found out that this was just not true at all. There are several scholarships for both talent and merit that do not require the filling out of this form.

Go ahead fill it out if it makes you feel better, but we have found several institutions and grantors of these scholarships that do not require it. We certainly won't be doing it. The fact of the matter is we can afford to pay for college for our DD, but our decision was to put money into a UGMA and let her make her own decisions without how to spend the money. With compounding, she will be able to more than pay for her schooling if that is what she wishes to do. If she decides to travel the world and stay in Hostels, she is still getting an education. She could blow it all on drugs and live on the street too, but we do not live our life based on what-ifs.

We believe we are giving her the foundation to do what is best for her even if we disagree with it. She also might take that money and become a VC and invest in others. She won't however be going to college counting on us filling out some form. There are people who believe you can't even get into college without filling out the FAFSA. Sad but true. Those people are truly brainwashed and I promise you those who are telling you it is a requirement have never been challenged on it and they do in fact receive a great deal in kickbacks for their respective universities for pushing loans and aid in the first place.

How on earth can you possibly swear what you will or will not do for your child in 12 years from now? Talk about narrow minded and brainwashed.

I have learned so much from those going through the college process now. Maybe I don't agree with the way some are going about it and maybe I don't agree with what some view as a "proper" education but I can assure you, I have learned a great deal. I can't imagine telling a bunch of people that have high school seniors or college freshman that they don't have a clue what they are talking about when it comes to college admission. These people are going through it right now. They are a wealth of information. Try, just once to open your mind up to what others have to say. You may learn a thing or two. I promise, that is a good thing. Narrow-mindedness and brainwashing work both ways.

 

[PixieTopaz]

. The fact of the matter is we can afford to pay for college for our DD, but our decision was to put money into a UGMA and let her make her own decisions without how to spend the money. With compounding, she will be able to more than pay for her schooling if that is what she wishes to do. If she decides to travel the world and stay in Hostels, she is still getting an education. She could blow it all on drugs and live on the street too, but we do not live our life based on what-ifs.

.

Groovy

 

[m&m's mom]

Many of those who think that way are being led to believe this by college admission/aid staff that receive a healthy back-end bonus for those who apply for and receive aid.

What in the world are you talking about? I worked in college Financial Aid in a major university and for a few years after Grad School. DH was certified by the US Dept of Education to calculate all financial aid expected family contributions, awards etc and I have never heard of anyone getting "back-end" bonuses for aid.
There was an issue with certain institutions trying to influence borrowers to use their banks but that was a very long time ago and was dealt with and that was not an "aid" situation. The students qualified- they just wanted those getting loans to use a certain bank to get the loan.
Who would be the one providing the bonuses?

 

[christineann]

I have a child with a college degree and a career in his major field and a second child in her senior year in a very demanding science major. Thanks to the FAFSA, their college received and reviewed our financial information and worked with us to make sure they were able to attend. Nothing is "free" - these kids worked (and are still working) very hard and deserve their scholarships and financial aid, and the college wanted them enough to make it happen.

If TOC doesn't want to divulge personal information on the FAFSA, so be it. Shhhhhhhh......more money for those who should get it and don't have an attitude about it

 

[MrsPete]

Here is where my hero Dave Ramsey addressed this very issue. Such sound advice about this:

http://www.daveramsey.com/radio/highlights/?urlVars=2010/2/4/Rein-in-College-Costs

So the questioner asked whether he should help his child locate loans . . . and Dave said no.

I'm in complete agreement with that answer, but Dave Ramsey (about whom I am entirely neutral) didn't advocate or deomonize the FAFSA form. He's just against LOANS.

The FAFSA form opens doors to Pell grants and other forms of need-based aid. Yes, loans are a part of that, but they are not the whole story.

I am still convinced that you have no idea what the FAFSA is.

 

[testifyoncruises]

So the questioner asked whether he should help his child locate loans . . . and Dave said no.

I'm in complete agreement with that answer, but Dave Ramsey (about whom I am entirely neutral) didn't advocate or deomonize the FAFSA form. He's just against LOANS.

The FAFSA form opens doors to Pell grants and other forms of need-based aid. Yes, loans are a part of that, but they are not the whole story.

I am still convinced that you have no idea what the FAFSA is.

In other shows, he has come out and demonized the FAFSA app. There is just not a link on his website.

I know exactly what the FAFSA is. I am convinced you just think it is impossible to go to school or get a scholarship or aid without filling it out. It is not and I know it to be FACT.

 

[MrsPete]

After some internet know it all claimed on here in January that you could NOT get a scholarship without it, we began to do research and found out that this was just not true at all. There are several scholarships for both talent and merit that do not require the filling out of this form.

Oh, you can get a scholarship without the form . . . but ALL federal financial aid is lost to you without the form, and SOME merit-based scholarships are lost to you without the form. No one believes that you cannot gain admission to college without it, but sensible people want access to any possible financial aid they might gain.

I know that my daughters will not be eligible for a Pell grant or other federal financial aid, but they MAY be able to get some state aid or other merit-based aid. That's worth my time in filling out the form.

You say you have the money (already at age six -- wow) for your daughter to attend college. We have also been saving actively for years, although our first child's much, much closer to college than yours is. However, we still want her to search for any money available to her. If we can spend LESS of that money, that's good for us.

 

[MrsPete]

If TOC doesn't want to divulge personal information on the FAFSA, so be it. Shhhhhhhh......more money for those who should get it and don't have an attitude about it

You know, you're completely right.

 

[MrsPete]

In other shows, he has come out and demonized the FAFSA app. There is just not a link on his website.

I know exactly what the FAFSA is. I am convinced you just think it is impossible to go to school or get a scholarship or aid without filling it out. It is not and I know it to be FACT.

I am not a follower of Dave Ramsey, so I don't pretend to know his views on everything financial -- but I do know that that particular link didn't prove anything that you said it'd prove. I just did a quick google search to see if I could learn just what Dave Ramsey thinks about the FAFSA . . . and I couldn't find much. I do see in two separate places that he's very against loans (and is in favor of living at home or other creative ways to lower costs rather than borrowing). But he doesn't come out against the FAFSA online.

I know it's possible to go to college without filling out a FAFSA. I just think it'd be stupid to close doors on most of the aid that could come your way.

Since you're so knowledgeable about this, how about providing us some links that'll convince us? Be sure they don't require tin-foil hats though 'cause I'm a little low on Reynolds Wrap.

 

[testifyoncruises]

You say you have the money (already at age six -- wow) for your daughter to attend college. We have also been saving actively for years, although our first child's much, much closer to college than yours is. However, we still want her to search for any money available to her. If we can spend LESS of that money, that's good for us.

We lived like no one else so we can now live like no one else. Using simple DCA, we have been slowly putting away into an UGMA on a regular basis. By the time, DD reaches age for college she will have more than enough to attend a respectable university even with inflation. There is no possible aid she will qualify for based on our income or her money, it is a moot point.

However there are some know it alls who claim it is IMPOSSIBLE to get merit or talent based money without the FAFSA and we know that is not at all true.

 

[MrsPete]

We lived like no one else so we can now live like no one else. Using simple DCA, we have been slowly putting away into an UGMA on a regular basis. By the time, DD reaches age for college she will have more than enough to attend a respectable university even with inflation. There is no possible aid she will qualify for based on our income or her money, it is a moot point.

However there are some know it alls who claim it is IMPOSSIBLE to get merit or talent based money without the FAFSA and we know that is not at all true.

Yes, and you're fine with your daughter using all that money for travel and drugs, if that's what she chooses. We part ways on that topic too.

No, what we understand is that the FAFSA is the ticket to MOST AID, and we don't understand why you'd close the door on MOST AID, leaving yourself only very few options.

I understand the "she won't qualify for aid" idea. My daughters won't qualify for Pell Grants either -- but the FAFSA opens the door to other aid; for example, when I was in school 20 years ago EVERYONE who was a state resident qualified for the State Incentive Grant. It wasn't a whole lot, but the ticket to that small grant was the FAFSA. If you didn't fill it out, you didn't get that free money.

Please prove it to us. Find us some links.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

We lived like no one else so we can now live like no one else. Using simple DCA, we have been slowly putting away into an UGMA on a regular basis. By the time, DD reaches age for college she will have more than enough to attend a respectable university even with inflation. There is no possible aid she will qualify for based on our income or her money, it is a moot point.

However there are some know it alls who claim it is IMPOSSIBLE to get merit or talent based money without the FAFSA and we know that is not at all true.

You misunderstand. We are saying that if you child wants to go to a school and the school says we will give you free money if you fill out the FAFSA, you fill it out.

Are you saying that you will turn down merit aid over filling out the FAFSA?

 

[Art 1]

We lived like no one else so we can now live like no one else. Using simple DCA, we have been slowly putting away into an UGMA on a regular basis. By the time, DD reaches age for college she will have more than enough to attend a respectable university even with inflation. There is no possible aid she will qualify for based on our income or her money, it is a moot point.

However there are some know it alls who claim it is IMPOSSIBLE to get merit or talent based money without the FAFSA and we know that is not at all true.

We have done the same. My son is a senior in Univ and we had his money saved. The baby who is a HS senior also has her money sitting there. We have never filled out the FAFSA. I would never qualify. The baby will have most of her tuition paid for due to her grades, the HS that she attended, SAT and community service. WE DID NOT HAVE TO FILL OUT FAFSA.

 

[MrsPete]

This is from the FAFSA website:
The Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA) is the form used by virtually all two and four-year colleges, universities and career schools for the awarding of federal student aid and most state and college aid. To assist in completing the FAFSA, see Completing the FAFSA . . .

This is from a website about completing the FAFSA for Texas schools:
It is probably the only way that many students will be able to afford to attend college after high school. All federally funded need-based financial aid programs are distributed based on the responses that you provide on your FAFSA. All state funded need-based financial aid (which in Texas is managed and awarded by each Texas public college or university) is distributed based on the responses that you provide on your FAFSA. Many colleges and universities with both state funded and privately donated scholarship funds will distribute these awards based on the responses that you provide on your FAFSA. Many private scholarships that you apply for that are not associated with any particular school will require that you submit a copy of your SAR (Student Aid Report) that you receive after completing the FAFSA. FAFSA is extremely important and essential for college bound seniors. It can be thought of as the machine that powers the financial aid process. All students, no matter what socio-economic background they come from should complete a FAFSA. While there is no guarantee that you will be eligible for any federal, state, or private funds if you submit a FAFSA, you most assuredly will not receive these if you fail to submit a FAFSA.

Then I tried googling "Scholarships without FAFSA" and this is what I found:
If a student wants to qualify for need-based financial aid in the United States , you almost certainly need to fill out a Free Assessment for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA) form. . . . Universities and colleges around the country also rely on FAFSA for information about how much students and their families can be expected to pay for college, though they may also require current and future students to fill out additional paperwork as well. Most schools offer their own financial assistance to needy students, and FAFSA helps them determine who is the most deserving of that aid.

. . . When it comes to the merit-based scholarships that many institutions commonly hand out, a student's award may be given without taking into account his or her FAFSA whatsoever. Among the other types of scholarships that do not require a FAFSA to apply are those given based on athletic ability, special interests, or success in a particular major or academic area of study. For the majority of scholarships handed out by private or non-profit organizations, a student's FAFSA is not taken into consideration.
For those who plan on obtaining private loans to cover the costs of their education expenses, filling out a FAFSA may not be necessary as well. While the FAFSA is required to obtain federal funding, there is no such requirement for education loans handed out by banks and other private lenders. For these types of financial aid funds, students or their parents must fill out a separate set of paperwork specified by the lender.

Although a FAFSA may not be an absolute requirement for every student, it is strongly advised that those who think they may need financial aid funding go ahead with the process and fill it out. Doing so can only benefit students in the long run, since many may find out that they are eligible for financial aid funding that they did not even realized they would qualify for.

And one more:
Some students and or parents realize they aren’t going to qualify for federal need-based aid. Maybe the family income is too high, or the house is paid off and worth too much. Whatever the economic reason, not every student is going to qualify for federal grants or subsidized loans.

But even if you’re absolutely sure that you can’t get federal help, its still worthwhile to take an hour to file a Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA).
When you complete the FAFSA, you get a Student Aid Report (SAR). Some schools want a SAR as part of the application process, and some will use it to consider students for institutional financial aid that could be more generous than the federal programs. At more expensive schools, even middle class students aren’t expected to pay for tuition.


Words that jump out at me:

used in awarding MOST federal and state aid
privately donated scholarship funds will distribute these awards based on the responses that you provide on your FAFSA
Many private scholarships that you apply for that are not associated with any particular school will require that you submit a copy of your SAR
FAFSA may not be an absolute requirement for every student, it is strongly advised
did not even realized they would qualify for

In closing, I tried to find ANYTHING online that says "don't do this" or "it's not worth it" . . . and I failed.

 

[MrsPete]

WE DID NOT HAVE TO FILL OUT FAFSA.

I totally get that it's a choice . . . but you may have missed out on some aid that was available to you. You don't know -- and some non-need based aid agencies DO look at the FAFSA. I don't understand leaving any stone unturned.

 

[Art 1]

I totally get that it's a choice . . . but you may have missed out on some aid that was available to you. You don't know -- and some non-need based aid agencies DO look at the FAFSA. I don't understand leaving any stone unturned.

I know that it's not worth us filling out.

 

[ReneeA]

I totally get that it's a choice . . . but you may have missed out on some aid that was available to you. You don't know -- and some non-need based aid agencies DO look at the FAFSA. I don't understand leaving any stone unturned.

Me either. Especially since it really only takes and hour or so as long as you have your tax returns sitting right there with you.

 

[punkin]

I know that it's not worth us filling out.

Well, it is true that if you can painlessly write out a check for 4 years of tuition and not blink at the expense, it is probably not worth filling out. We do not fall into that category.