Have questions re: college tuition/loans for DD

[RitaZ.]

Your numbers don't add up. If this particular school is going to run $150,000 for FOUR YEARS, why would you be expected to pay $57,000 PER YEAR? That'd mean you'd be paying $228,000 for a $150,000 education. I don't understand.

I agree. The numbers don't make sense. Something is being left out.

 

[My sister's princess]

A few things I have to toss in the ring here.....

Please Please PLEASE anyone who thinks that the FAFSA is only for Pell call your financial aid office. There are state grants, Perkins Loans, and other programs that are award through this process! Some schools have money to be awarded, and they will award it regardless of EFC, but they may require the FAFSA.

Stafford loans (at the very least unsubsidized ones) are available to ALL students, not just independent ones, so if your student wasn't awarded them, call!

The EFC is NOT your bill, it is what is estimated you should be able to contribute to your student's education, that includes costs like books, travel, ect. Your bill may be more or LESS than that number!


For scholarships check out fastweb.com, it is a great scholarship search engine.

 

[punkin]

I'll tell you what we did -- we pulled back and went the state school route. Our son had the option of going to Duke or the like and coming out with $100,000 or so in loans or going to NC State or UNC-Chapel Hill and having it totally paid for by us. When it came time for our second son to go to college we looked only at the state universities. That is our intention for our third son also. Two of the three have the kind of academic records that qualify them for the very top universities, but this still feels like the best choice for our family.

Our in-state flagship (with room and board) will cost approximately the same as a nice small private college which gave my DD a very nice scholarship. Don't rule out private schools. If the kids have the academics, they will get merit aid at a lot of schools (though maybe not the very top)

No. Many colleges require it to be filed to receive merit aid even if they won't qualify for need based aid.

That is true. Our EFC is greater than most college costs of attendance, but we still filled out a FAFSA for merit aid. I don't know why some schools require it, but they do.

 

[chisnpeke]

I believe cheating on the FAFSA is a federal offense. How do you know it can be gotten away with-do you know people who have done that?

Yes. This person is a habitual cheater though.

 

[Grumpy's Gal]

Again the ones that get screwed are the people like us who have contributed to society year after year after year to get screwed over and over again- the white, middle class American family continues to pay through their noses.

PLEASE tell me this is not going to be about race. I actually take offense to what you said......

 

[chisnpeke]

Just noticed OP, you have taken numerous very expensive vacations. I have taken expensive vacations as well but not to the extent that you have. You could have had quite a bit saved away for retirement if you would have simply cut back where you stayed at Disney (Mods and values rather than deluxes and DVC) or not gone at all. I understand the bad want to take a vacation so just cutting back on those trips would have given you some more money to put away for retirement, since you are afraid of not being able to eat.

Your daughter in no way needs a $150,000 education to be a chiropractor. I think it's more of a want than a need, just like vacations are.

You really can't complain about not having enough money to retire on when you could have had a lot put away already instead of the extravagent vacations every single year.

 

[LoraJ]

From the day his kids were born my co-worker started saving for their college funds. They took maybe two vacations in the last 20 years. He and his wife have both saved for their retirement the whole time. They are now spending 40k a year on their daughters education. They saved hard for it. They are hard working middle-class Americans. They aren't white though.

Please tell me what company your financial planner is with so I can avoid them like the plague.

 

[kafitty]

i COULD have gone to an expensive private school. i was accepted and excited. However, my parents said, "Oh heck no." And i went to a state school that i loved, with great professors. i feel like i got a great education, and even after 5 years (including summer classes and a couple years living on campus), my total undergrad degree cost around $40,000.

i know plenty of white, middle-class kids like myself who are now up to their eyeballs in debt, and guess what? NONE of us have jobs. At least i know i can now continue on to grad school (and start my debt there ) while a lot of my friends are quite stuck.

i shan't comment more, though i want to. Is there a *biting tongue* smiley?

 

[foohpah]

For the OP or anyone else that is interested: http://www.cofo.edu/

 

[Christine]

Regarding the OP's EFC number not making sense for a university that will total $150,000. If I understand this correctly, the EFC is a number assigned after filling out the FAFSA form that basically says, no matter which college you attend we expect that YOU can pay this much toward a college education. You can send that FAFSA off to 10 different schools and those schools will see your assigned EFC amount and make financial aid determinations based on that number. What you are offered from each school will differ. My EFC number is very much the same as the OPs and my DD's school is probably half that much. The EFC number was assigned before any school was even chosen.

To the OP: If your EFC number is in the $57,000 range, you are making pretty good money. That is how they expect you to afford it. Unfortunately, I don't know how much the FAFSA takes into account the cost of living in your area but it must do it a little bit based on what your mortgage might be and that's it. In that way, the FAFSA number is a little unfair to those of us who live in metropolitan areas, who, yes, make much more money but need that money just to pay living expenses. It's unfair all around, especially on your taxes, but that's life.

At any rate, with my EFC number we were offered some small Stafford loans and some Parent Plus loans. We chose not to take them because my daughter is not going to be a doctor, lawyer, or anything that is going to allow her to repay debt like that. I am very debt adverse so I cannot foist that kind of thing on her.

I am on the "pay as you go plan." My dd's college is not very expensive (4 year state school). It runs about $20,000 per year and I make a monthly payment. I didn't think I'd be able to do it but you'd be surprise what you can do if you buckle down. Am I going to Disney this year? Nope. I probably won't take a nice vacation or a vacation at all. I may take some time off and work around the house--something I haven't done in years. I'm still able to contribute toward my retirement and put a little money aside but not much. I've got another one going to college right after my first, so it will be a VERY long 8 years.

It does get to me sometimes. A relative, who doesn't make a whole less than our family, has been pretty reckless with finances. Owns two homes, has nice cars, but truly lives on the edge financially. I couldn't live like that and sleep at night. She gets offered a lot more in the way of loans (still no grants or "free" money). It's not right but I'd rather have my piece of mind and a low EFC number than live they way I would have to live to get free money.

 

[mefordis]

Here' a question: if a grandparent has saved a 529 for my daughter, does that get counted toward what we can afford to pay for her education? It's technically still in the name of the grandparents. And a 529 doesn't HAVE to be spent on the child's education. At any point the grandparents could change their mind and use it for someone else. Is this counted for that child? They have opened one for both of my girls to share, but it's in only used one name to open it.

 

[monarchsfan16]

Here' a question: if a grandparent has saved a 529 for my daughter, does that get counted toward what we can afford to pay for her education? It's technically still in the name of the grandparents. And a 529 doesn't HAVE to be spent on the child's education. At any point the grandparents could change their mind and use it for someone else. Is this counted for that child? They have opened one for both of my girls to share, but it's in only used one name to open it.

If it's in the grandparents' name, no it does not get declared on the FAFSA. The only things that get declared are the income/assets of the child and of the parents that the child lives with. My dad had 529s for my sister and me. Mom is our custodial parent, so the 529s never appeared on our FAFSAs (not that it mattered...)

As far as the OP's question as to how people do it? Sacrifice, on both the part of the student and the parents. My parents told me from the start of the college search what they could afford, and that it was contingent on good grades. They'd pay for As and Bs. We'd talk about Cs. Anything else, I'd be paying for. I was free to look at whatever schools I wanted to, but I better have a plan, and that plan better not include much, if any, loans. It also could not include working full time. They told me they could afford approximately the cost of our instate school (and that money came from a 529 (approx 1/3 of my education), their liquid (non-retirement) savings and current income). They also told me they might not be able to help me the whole time because I have a younger sister. I ended up with enough merit scholarships from private and out of state schools to bring all schools I applied to within a couple grand of the price of the instate school, so they told me any option was doable. In the end I chose the instate. My parents cut down on their own wants while I've been in school. Dad gave up the shiny car habit, mom (my parents are divorced) cut back some (moderation is key) on eating out and shopping. I finished undergrad debt-free. My sister chose the expensive out of state school. She will finish with some debt (but it will total less than a year's bill)

I'm now in grad school (at my expense), and while it was VERY painful, I turned down offers to the top schools in the country because my instate school offered me an assistantship consisting of tuition waivers for my first year, and a stipend this first year that exceeds my living expenses (because I'm living frugally), and am in the process of applying for a grant that I'd sort of rather not apply for (I don't like the prof running the program) for next year that's worth ~the value of a year's instate tuition. I've been saving for my education since I knew what money was (my parents never promised a free ride), so I'll be able to live off my savings if I get the grant, and graduate debt free, and possibly, if I live at home next year and commute 45 minutes each way (in good weather...), with money in the bank.

Sacrifice. That's how we do it.

 

[golfgal]

Do you have a high income? My friend said that when she applied they told her that her parents should be able to contribute $50,000+ to her education. They have three children and she goes to a private school so when the money they set aside is gone, it's up to her to pay back. Her mother works for an affluent school district as the treasurer so I'm guessing she makes at least $100,000.

It does suck that people who work don't get any money. My other friend, whose father is a firefighter/EMT only makes in the $40,000s and she did not qualify either.

I will tell you that for FAFSA the only thing I believe that they check is the taxes. If you have assets you could get by with putting a low amount.

There is no way someone making $40,000/year would not qualify for some aid, unless they only went to a community college. If a student is going to a state school costing $15,000/year, for example and a family makes $40,000, they would most likely get most, if not all, of their college paid for--unless they have a lot of money in LIQUID savings--not retirement funds. With those numbers, a family would only have about $15,000 of after tax money to live off if they paid 100% of their kids' college. It just doesn't add up.

You're preaching to the choir on that score. I read something here on the DIS that foster kids can get a completely free college education in at least one state...hmmmm, maybe my DD....nawww, it's nice that people who need help get it but all this crazy paperwork and all the changing family-circumstances that everyone has had to deal with...

Maybe I should have run up a lot of debt, maybe I shouldn't have ay money in the bank, maybe I shouldn't have any 401Ks or IRAs, maybe I shouldn't pay my bills on time and then MY kid would get a free ride too.

agnes!

The issue with a child in foster care is that they have NO MONEY. They are not expected to file under their foster parents income and since their parents are not supporting them, the only money they have is whatever the kids happen to have in savings. This is why they get a free ride--and GOOD FOR THEM.

My DH goes to a chiropractor. I asked him what school he went to. Not a clue so we looked him up online. He went to a state school. The horrors!

Nobody NEEDS to go to a $45,000 a year school for their bachelor.

Often with scholarships and aid a private school ends up costing less then a state school.

Here' a question: if a grandparent has saved a 529 for my daughter, does that get counted toward what we can afford to pay for her education? It's technically still in the name of the grandparents. And a 529 doesn't HAVE to be spent on the child's education. At any point the grandparents could change their mind and use it for someone else. Is this counted for that child? They have opened one for both of my girls to share, but it's in only used one name to open it.

No, which is why having grandparents do the 529 is a GREAT idea.


OP, there is NO WAY your expected contribution is that much unless you are making about $400,000/year. If you are making $400,000/year, you don't NEED aid. If you have nothing in savings/retirement and you are making that kind of money, that is your fault. If you are making less then that, you did something wrong.

There is no where on the fin aid form that asks for your balances on your retirement accounts, nor does it take into consideration your debt other then your home. It does ask what the equity in your home is. If your home is worth less then your mortgage, which is common these days, you put in zero. The fin aid form only asks for liquid money--savings, mutual funds not tied to retirement accounts, college savings plans and home equity.

 

[mefordis]

There is no way someone making $40,000/year would not qualify for some aid, unless they only went to a community college. If a student is going to a state school costing $15,000/year, for example and a family makes $40,000, they would most likely get most, if not all, of their college paid for--unless they have a lot of money in LIQUID savings--not retirement funds. With those numbers, a family would only have about $15,000 of after tax money to live off if they paid 100% of their kids' college. It just doesn't add up.



The issue with a child in foster care is that they have NO MONEY. They are not expected to file under their foster parents income and since their parents are not supporting them, the only money they have is whatever the kids happen to have in savings. This is why they get a free ride--and GOOD FOR THEM.




Often with scholarships and aid a private school ends up costing less then a state school.




No, which is why having grandparents do the 529 is a GREAT idea.

Should we just contribute to the grandparents 529 instead of our own, or do you think that could get messy later?

Thanks!

 

[golfgal]

Should we just contribute to the grandparents 529 instead of our own, or do you think that could get messy later?

Thanks!

It depends. One thing with 529 plans is that most states have some kind of a tax break or matching funds for people that contribute to a 529 plan. You need to do your research and find out, long term, what will give you the most bang for your buck. In MN they will match up to $1500/year IF you make under $35,000/year so contributing to the MN plan doesn't give you any advantages. Kansas gives you up to a $6000 tax credit so if you live in Kansas you would be silly not to contribute to the state plan.

It is not illegal or unethical in any way to have Grandparents hold a 529 on grandkids so "getting messy later" doesn't apply.

 

[Cornhusk]

Again the ones that get screwed are the people like us who have contributed to society year after year after year to get screwed over and over again- the white, middle class American family continues to pay through their noses.I work with an anesthesiologist from another country who told me that the rich people in his country come here and their kids go to school for nothing!!!!! WTH!!!!!!!!


Linda

No offense (well, maybe a little) but I suggest you think before you post. Just because you are a "white middle class American family" does not mean you are entitled to a college education. I am a minority and had to work my butt of without help from my parents to get where I am at. Not ALL cases such as the anesthesiologist, are that way as there are other minorities who have acquired their degree without taking away from others.

 

[aprilgail2]

I thought the same. It's surprising how many here are taken by surprise that their child is now a senior and they are going to have to pay for college. You know when the child is born that it's coming in 18 years. It's also shocking how many expect free tuition from the government.

I totally agree!
OP- did you not know that every year for the past 18 years that your child was one year closer to college? Instead of taking so many vacations you could have invested at least part of that money in your childs future. If you can afford that many vacations you can certainly not expect government handouts for your childs education? You could have gotten a 529 as soon as your child was born and invested part of that vaction money. Sorry but just can't feel sorry for someone that vacations over and over for the past 18 years and doesn't think about their childs future.

 

[tar heel]

My neighbor is a chiropractor and his undergraduate degree is from one of the lesser branches of the University of North Carolina system.

What is wrong with U Mass? I have a cousin whose daughters went to U Mass. The younger one was #1 in her class. Her dad went to the flagship state university where he's from, then got a doctorate from MIT, and the daughter plans something similiar.

 

[mefordis]

Well, this is terrible to think about and I hope to God it doesn't come to pass, but it IS their account so if God forbid something happens to them before we use the 529, it would be part of their estate.

It depends. One thing with 529 plans is that most states have some kind of a tax break or matching funds for people that contribute to a 529 plan. You need to do your research and find out, long term, what will give you the most bang for your buck. In MN they will match up to $1500/year IF you make under $35,000/year so contributing to the MN plan doesn't give you any advantages. Kansas gives you up to a $6000 tax credit so if you live in Kansas you would be silly not to contribute to the state plan.

It is not illegal or unethical in any way to have Grandparents hold a 529 on grandkids so "getting messy later" doesn't apply.

 

[mefordis]

Tell me about it! My kids are 1 1/2 and 6 years old. According to one of those online college savings calculators, I need to put away about $1000 each month to pay for their tuition when their time comes. A 4 year state school - out of state, because I want them to have options outside of NJ - would total 250k each for 4 years including room and board. Yikes! That is at an estimated 8% yearly return. There goes our vacations! I guess I'll have to live vicariously through you guys by reading trip reports!

I totally agree!
OP- did you not know that every year for the past 18 years that your child was one year closer to college? Instead of taking so many vacations you could have invested at least part of that money in your childs future. If you can afford that many vacations you can certainly not expect government handouts for your childs education? You could have gotten a 529 as soon as your child was born and invested part of that vaction money. Sorry but just can't feel sorry for someone that vacations over and over for the past 18 years and doesn't think about their childs future.