Have any other DVC owners lost their points because of Disney's closures?

[dismedvc]

I'm not blaming DVC management. I'm putting the blame on TWDC management for creating a corporate environment of internal competition rather than synergistic thinking to the detriment of the paying customer.

 

[johnsgrl]

When we were finally able to be in a position to buy our 1st DVC contract, I spent months scouring the boards to learn all that I could, tips/tricks/advice.
I just want to thank everyone who posts, or has ever posted to these boards. This discussion should be mandatory reading before anyone buys DVC. Not all situations in the future will lead to these kinds of issues, and at some point there will be precedent on the best way to manage such unexpected closures, but it truly shows that we can't even begin to imagine the problems that could occur.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I don't think Disney has to compensate DVC members. We took on risk as part of our ownership. My only point is, hiding behind the excuse that Parks and Hotels and DVC are separate entities is just corporate garbage. If Disney doesn't want to compensate, they don't have to. Just don't hide behind this particular excuse.

Closing the parks and forcing people to cancel their vacations is not their fault. It was not caused by any malpractice, or even any poor decision making. It was forced upon them by government authorities during a world wide pandemic and I think most people will forgive them for that. They likely won't have to deal with any legal ramifications because of this, however any goodwill lost for not finding ways to utilize TDWC's resources without costing the overall company (not DVC on its own) too much to help these folks (which in reality is a really really small number of actual people) is on them. At the end of the day, DVC management is making the conscious decision not to help because of the constraints put forward by TWDC.

I'm not blaming DVC management. I'm putting the blame on TWDC management for creating a corporate environment of internal competition rather than synergistic thinking to the detriment of the paying customer. And you are correct. It is their company and they get to decide how to run it. But it's my money and I don't have to give it to them if I don't want to.

That is so true! I think what this entire situation has uncovered, for me, is that the deep understanding I though I had about it all, wasn’t as deep as I thought,

Hopefully, we never go through it again!

 

[yankeesfan123]

Parks and resorts dips into DVC all the time. Anyone can book a DVC resort by paying cash straight through Disney’s normal website at any time.

 

[Sandisw]

Parks and resorts dips into DVC all the time. Anyone can book a DVC resort by paying cash straight through Disney’s normal website at any time.

DVC rooms available for cash are either rooms owned by Disney,..they own at least 2% of the resort.,,rooms given to them so members can use points to cruise, etc., or DVC rooms not reserved by members and rented to reduce our dues.

DVC just doesn't give them away,

 

[nagshead]

We have trip booked May 22 for ten days, 200 points. I called today to see what our options are because of the progression of the spread and we have one child with severe asthma. I’m just not confident they’ll even be open by June, if they are I don’t know if it will be safe for our son to travel. She basically told me I’m 4 days past banking window (Aug UY), and it’s use them or lose them. I asked if they are closed during my trip will they agree to bank them, again no. She said that people who had March trips booked when they closed lost their points completely too if they were expiring soon. I just don’t see how they can possibly not offer any of us who will lose our points any alternative when this was out of our control?

 

[CanadaDisney05]

We have trip booked May 22 for ten days, 200 points. I called today to see what our options are because of the progression of the spread and we have one child with severe asthma. I’m just not confident they’ll even be open by June, if they are I don’t know if it will be safe for our son to travel. She basically told me I’m 4 days past banking window (Aug UY), and it’s use them or lose them. I asked if they are closed during my trip will they agree to bank them, again no. She said that people who had March trips booked when they closed lost their points completely too if they were expiring soon. I just don’t see how they can possibly not offer any of us who will lose our points any alternative when this was out of our control?

I mean, I know it sucks and your not going to want to hear it, but knowing your banking window was your responsibility and banking was well within your control. 4 days ago this pandemic was in full swing already. It's pretty hard to claim you had no clue that you may have to cancel before your banking window ended. Your situation is a bit different than those that had vacations in March and early April with April and June use years. They essentially had no warning

 

[mlayton14]

I get the disappointment , but what many owners experiencing these losses expect consideration for their “loyalty” which is also a bunch of bunk. People never buy DVC out of loyalty , they buy because they believe they can save money, and the early buyers certainly DID get the better end of the deal vs Disney. Disney owes no loyalty in return to us especially since most owners think they are getting a great deal. If and when they do offer some consideration to folks who lost points , it will not be from the goodness of their hearts , it will be to protect the brand and the product. It sounds cold but just trying to be real here

 

[nagshead]

We did bank all our points that were not being used on this trip. Even a week ago we didn’t expect that everything would not be opening up by mid April (I mean our own president said he expected a lot to be opened back up by Easter). My kids were scheduled to go back to school this coming Monday the 6th and that only got pushed back a few days ago to May 4th. But day by day things appear to be worse and worse. So yes we did not bank as we had a late May reservation booked and felt it was far enough off that it would be ok. Disney has not even announced they will be closed by then. But either way, if they are closed and we are unable to use these 200 points (as many other people with March and April trips are facing too), it doesn’t seem right that we will have zero options. I understand that if they make exception for one they need to do it for all. But they are already making exceptions to put borrowed points back (when borrowing has always been a final move). I’m not sure what the answer is but I feel pretty strongly that any of us who are affected by the closure should not just be out of luck.

 

[Sandisw]

We did bank all our points that were not being used on this trip. Even a week ago we didn’t expect that everything would not be opening up by mid April (I mean our own president said he expected a lot to be opened back up by Easter). My kids were scheduled to go back to school this coming Monday the 6th and that only got pushed back a few days ago to May 4th. But day by day things appear to be worse and worse. So yes we did not bank as we had a late May reservation booked and felt it was far enough off that it would be ok. Disney has not even announced they will be closed by then. But either way, if they are closed and we are unable to use these 200 points (as many other people with March and April trips are facing too), it doesn’t seem right that we will have zero options. I understand that if they make exception for one they need to do it for all. But they are already making exceptions to put borrowed points back (when borrowing has always been a final move). I’m not sure what the answer is but I feel pretty strongly that any of us who are affected by the closure should not just be out of luck.

DVCM had already indicated that they were not going to change banking rules, due to closures.

So, it definitely put people with Aug UYs in a very tough position with April/May/June reservations in having to decide to cancel and bank.

I’m sorry that you could end up with the loss of points. Not sure how you make a system like this still work when you lose most likely 10 weeks worth of inventory without owners feeling the lose in some way.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

Been a member a long time but from the beginning, the very first year back when my daughter was in the college program the risks of not using use year points and moving to borrowing as much as possible seemed clear to me.

If you have current use year points in the last 4 months it is really a hit or miss to rent them. This is compounded by Disney being able to take member rooms and rent them, and in an amount that can not be figured out. Initially the impossibility of making last minute reservations was not clear to me. I soon got that message. I would bet last minute cash deals are not discounted as the discounts seem very targeted.

Companies like Dave discount the price paid on last minute sales. I don't recall every banking points because we had enough points we didn't need to and because it seemed to me borrowing was far safer for the value and use of the points.

 

[Alice Sr.]

Closing the parks and forcing people to cancel their vacations is not their fault. It was not caused by any malpractice, or even any poor decision making. It was forced upon them by government authorities during a world wide pandemic and I think most people will forgive them for that. They likely won't have to deal with any legal ramifications because of this, however any goodwill lost for not finding ways to utilize TDWC's resources without costing the overall company (not DVC on its own) too much to help these folks (which in reality is a really really small number of actual people) is on them. At the end of the day, DVC management is making the conscious decision not to help because of the constraints put forward by TWDC.

Would have Vero and HH been forced to close or would that have been DVC's decision to close? I totally agree with you, it is a conscious, (and calculated) decision. It bothers me personally that Disney is not taking the high road. Many other companies that have not enjoyed the financial boon that Disney has, are providing extensions and concessions that they are not required to do so by law or contract. I'm starting to wonder if this direction is based on new leadership philosophy. In my opinion it shouldn't be about the contract It should be about doing what's right. I will lose a couple of grand, at the end of the day it's annoying but it's not a tragedy, during these devastating times I am still gainfully employed and my family is healthy. However, I am truly hurt that people who were not able to take their hard earned vacations, will not have that opportunity in the future (with regards to those affected 2019 points). Imho, it's classless decision, and it will shape my opinion about Disney going forward. If they maintain their stance, and I totally expect that they will, they will probably be doing me a favor. I have spent a ridiculous amount of money on Disney and this apparent change in their philosophical and cultural compass will stymie that going forward, it's a (tarnished) silver lining .

 

[New Mouse]

Would have Vero and HH been forced to close or would that have been DVC's decision to close? I totally agree with you, it is a conscious, (and calculated) decision. It bothers me personally that Disney is not taking the high road. Many other companies that have not enjoyed the financial boon that Disney has, are providing extensions and concessions that they are not required to do so by law or contract. I'm starting to wonder if this direction is based on new leadership philosophy. In my opinion it shouldn't be about the contract It should be about doing what's right. I will lose a couple of grand, at the end of the day it's annoying but it's not a tragedy, during these devastating times I am still gainfully employed and my family is healthy. However, I am truly hurt that people who were not able to take their hard earned vacations, will not have that opportunity in the future (with regards to those affected 2019 points). Imho, it's classless decision, and it will shape my opinion about Disney going forward. If they maintain their stance, and I totally expect that they will, they will probably be doing me a favor. I have spent a ridiculous amount of money on Disney and this apparent change in their philosophical and cultural compass will stymie that going forward, it's a (tarnished) silver lining .

Disney philosophy to the bottom line first probably changed about 15 years ago so you are a little late to the game with your stance.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Would have Vero and HH been forced to close or would that have been DVC's decision to close? I totally agree with you, it is a conscious, (and calculated) decision. It bothers me personally that Disney is not taking the high road. Many other companies that have not enjoyed the financial boon that Disney has, are providing extensions and concessions that they are not required to do so by law or contract. I'm starting to wonder if this direction is based on new leadership philosophy. In my opinion it shouldn't be about the contract It should be about doing what's right. I will lose a couple of grand, at the end of the day it's annoying but it's not a tragedy, during these devastating times I am still gainfully employed and my family is healthy. However, I am truly hurt that people who were not able to take their hard earned vacations, will not have that opportunity in the future (with regards to those affected 2019 points). Imho, it's classless decision, and it will shape my opinion about Disney going forward. If they maintain their stance, and I totally expect that they will, they will probably be doing me a favor. I have spent a ridiculous amount of money on Disney and this apparent change in their philosophical and cultural compass will stymie that going forward, it's a (tarnished) silver lining .

What do you suggest they do?

 

[Lizzim]

We have a March use year and had previously borrowed our 2019 points for an earlier trip. I have banked our 2020 points as we will not be travelling from the UK until the situation normalises. I hope to use our points for a trip in late 2021 but am fully prepared to lose them if the risk of travelling is too great. I don’t expect any assistance should that be the case.

 

[Alice Sr.]

What do you suggest they do?

For those folks caught with unbanked 2019 points that had been used for reservations cancelled because of the closing, to have the opportunity to bank those points. As you mentioned above it "is a really really small number of actual people".

 

[CanadaDisney05]

For those folks caught with unbanked 2019 points that had been used for reservations cancelled because of the closing, to have the opportunity to bank those points. As you mentioned above it "is a really really small number of actual people".

It's a small number of people in the grand scheme of things, but if this things last 3+ months, that's a significant number of points to disrupt the entire system. I've mentioned this several times before. If they allowed banking of those points, that's great for you because you get to bank those points. You then get to book a room next year with those points that you otherwise wouldn't have booked. Again, that's fantastic for you. But now when I try to book my room next year, you've taken my room. There is now no inventory for me. I've now lost my points.

There's a perfect amount of points in the system to book every single room every single day of the year. One way or another, someone is losing points. It's either you or me.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

There are several posts and threads on the estimated number of points at risk and how to mitigate losses. If you mean perfect in the sense of exact then that is not correct. The system was built with the ability to adjust. If you mean perfect in the sense the number of points per year matches the number that shoulda, coulda and woulda been used you are not accounting for the flexibility of the system. Nor for the uses of points outside the onsite resorts which triggers cash sales. IMO the results you postulate in not a worse case scenario it is a not possible scenario. It is a general reaction not accounting for how the system works and how many smart, talented people are working to make these non issues.

When you follow the posts/threads with the points math things are not nearly as dire. It is not 'you' or 'me'. It is not a zero sum game.

It's a small number of people in the grand scheme of things, but if this things last 3+ months, that's a significant number of points to disrupt the entire system. I've mentioned this several times before. If they allowed banking of those points, that's great for you because you get to bank those points. You then get to book a room next year with those points that you otherwise wouldn't have booked. Again, that's fantastic for you. But now when I try to book my room next year, you've taken my room. There is now no inventory for me. I've now lost my points.

There's a perfect amount of points in the system to book every single room every single day of the year. One way or another, someone is losing points. It's either you or me.

 

[CarolynFH]

This is the best analysis I’ve read of why DVC can’t say now what they’ll do but have to wait until the resorts can reopen.
https://www.dvcnews.com/other-resou.../4734-disney-vacation-club-s-covid-19-dilemma

 

[CanadaDisney05]

There are several posts and threads on the estimated number of points at risk and how to mitigate losses. If you mean perfect in the sense of exact then that is not correct. The system was built with the ability to adjust. If you mean perfect in the sense the number of points per year matches the number that shoulda, coulda and woulda been used you are not accounting for the flexibility of the system. Nor for the uses of points outside the onsite resorts which triggers cash sales. IMO the results you postulate in not a worse case scenario it is a not possible scenario. It is a general reaction not accounting for how the system works and how many smart, talented people are working to make these non issues.

When you follow the posts/threads with the points math things are not nearly as dire. It is not 'you' or 'me'. It is not a zero sum game.

It's a simplification for sure. the assumptions are used for illustration purposes, not an exact scenario None of us have the actual data.

You are right, it's not a zero sum game. But the flexibility in the system is not designed to handle an extra 25+% points either. So maybe it's not literally a you vs me scenario with 100% precision, it's pretty close