Hate to do this, but have a topic about abortion...

[JennyMominRI]

Also, my dh who agrees that life begins at conception is agnostic. To me it is logical that I carried life within me. I had an internal sonogram at 6wks and saw the flashing of my ds' heartbeat. That is life.
.

I actually agree with you that it is not always a religious belief...I know athiests who believe life begins at conception..Then you have Jewish law which clearly stated that the unborn are not equal to the born..In fact Jewish law states that for 40 days after conception the embryo is considered nothing nothing more than water.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Jenny I can't decide whether you taking part in this thread is going to help you or hurt you even worse. It's making me nervous and I don't even know you.

Teejay,
I agree with you soooo much! I almost feel that it would be better for it to be closed, because I hate to see women judged and harassed for their choices. It's so typical of our misguided society. You never see men get treated like this!

Thats why I refuse to get dragged into this thread.

 

[chadfromdallas]

You never see men get treated like this!

whoa now.....

 

[minniepumpernickel]

whoa now.....

LOL, it feels exploitive to me. When was the last time that we raked a man over the coals on here? Maybe once or twice with one of the supermarket threads, but nothing this personal. Men can basically make decisions with impunity, but women are always fodder for gossip and verbal abuse. I don't get it??

 

[6_Time_Momma]

And if Jenny's case does not fit your idea of extreme limitations, what would fit your definition?

The mother's life in imminent danger.

To say that anyone can have cardiac arrest and therefore we can all know what it feels like to be in a life or death situation is just so outrageously callous. How can a person say that and not feel ashamed is beyond me.

I didn't say "anyone" could have a cardiac arrest. I said someone with cardiomyopathy could have it whether pregnant or not. And I am absolutely in no way ashamed whatsoever. What is outrageously callous to me is the sheer number of people who have abortions who don't give a second thought about it.

 

[snoopy]

The mother's life in imminent danger.



I didn't say "anyone" could have a cardiac arrest. I said someone with cardiomyopathy could have it whether pregnant or not. And I am absolutely in no way ashamed whatsoever. What is outrageously callous to me is the sheer number of people who have abortions who don't give a second thought about it.

I'm curious, how do you derive at the "sheer number" of women who have abortions who "don't give a second thought about it"?

 

[JennyMominRI]

What is outrageously callous to me is the sheer number of people who have abortions who don't give a second thought about it.

Which is a very different topic,IMO

 

[chadfromdallas]

I'm curious, how do you derive at the "sheer number" of women who have abortions who "don't give a second thought about it"?

I was about to ask this, but didn't know if I was up to getting back into this thread all that much...

Thank ya

 

[6_Time_Momma]

I should add.......if Jenny's doctor's told her that her life was in imminent danger, then yes, obviously if it was certain that she and the baby would die, an abortion would be necesary IMO. I didn't get that from her first post and that is why I made my subsequent posts.

I do not, however, believe that abortion should be legal other than imminent danger to the mother. And I am certainly not ashamed of that!

Whoa! Major edit performed!

 

[JennyMominRI]

I should add.......if Jenny's doctor's told her that her life was in imminent danger, then yes, obviously if it was certain that she and the baby would die, an abortion would be necesary !

I'm not in imminent danger in the First trimester..It's really the late second and third when it becomes a day to day risk

 

[6_Time_Momma]

I was about to ask this, but didn't know if I was up to getting back into this thread all that much...

Thank ya

Allright ya got me. However, since i have heard at least 5 women just on the DISborads say that they wouldn't think twice about having one, I am pretty sure the numbers are up there.

You can't seriously tell me that you don't think there are women out there who have abortions and don't have any qualms whatsoever about them. I believe that there is quite a high number.

 

[GEM]

I just want to jump in here for a minute. For a lot of reasons, this is also an extremely personal topic for me. As you probably know, I'm very pro-choice.

I have a 22 month old who is the absolute light of my life, and I also would love to have another baby some day. However, I can tell you right now, witout any hesitation, that if I got pregnant and my doctor told me that my life was in very serious danger if I continued the pregnancy, or even that it might be or likely would be, I would be on the phone scheduling my abortion that afternoon. There is no way I would risk leaving Paul without a mother, risk not seeing him grow up, seeing what kind of person he becomes, etc. And, yes, I know that any pregnancy is a risk to some degree - but in a normal situation the risks are pretty minimal. If I believed that the risk of my death was great, there wouldn't even be a decision to be made. I hope I never find myself in that situation, but if I did, I'd do exactly what Jenny is doing. My responsibility to my child trumps my responsibility to an unborn embryo/fetus/clump of cells - whatever you want to call it - because I don't think it's a baby at that point.

Jenny, I'm sorry your in this situation - and I'm sorry you have to defend your position. I also admire your ability to do so without becoming frustrated and hostile.

 

[6_Time_Momma]

I know this doesn't really have anything to do with anything, but I just want to jump in here for a minute. For a lot of reasons, this is also an extremely personal topic for me. As you probably know, I'm very pro-choice.

I have a 22 month old who is the absolute light of my life, and I also would love to have another baby someday. However, I can tell you right now, witout any hesitation, that if I got pregnant and my doctor told me that my life was in very serious danger if I continued the pregnancy, or even that it might be or likely would be, I would be on the phone scheduling my abortion that afternoon. There is no way I would risk leaving Paul without a mother, risk not seeing him grow up, seeing what kind of person he becomes, etc. And, yes, I know that any pregnancy is a risk to some degree - but in a normal situation the risks are pretty minimal. If I believed that the risk of my death was great, there wouldn't even be a decision to be made. I hope I never find myself in that situation, but if I did, I'd do exactly what Jenny is doing.

I'm sorry your in this situation - and I'm sorry you have to defend your position. I also admire your ability to do so without becoming frustrated and hostile.

Quite honestly, I don't think she is having to defend her situation. I posted that I understood why she made it, but that I felt it could be done differently, and would do differently myself. I never once called her a horrible person or callous or anything else. I never told her she was wrong. I don't think anyone here has told her she was wrong, have they?

 

[JennyMominRI]

Quite honestly, I don't think she is having to defend her situation. I posted that I understood why she made it, but that I felt it could be done differently, and would do differently myself. I never once called her a horrible person or callous or anything else. I never told her she was wrong. I don't think anyone here has told her she was wrong, have they?

I have not felt attacked by you in this thread

 

[chobie]

I have not felt attacked by you in this thread

I apologize for presuming to speak for you. I thought people were trying to second guess your decision and put themselves in your shoes without having any idea what it must be like. But, I have no idea either so I'm sorry.

You have spoken so eloquently and you are such a beautiful person with a beautiful family.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I apologize for presuming to speak for you. I thought people were trying to second guess your decision and put themselves in your shoes without having any idea what it must be like. But, I have no idea either so I'm sorry​

Oh I'm sur epeople are doing that..I think it's natual to ask,"what would I do if I was her"..People will come up with different answers .I'm OK with that. I think it's much easier to say what you *think* you would do when you are looking in from the sidelines.

 

[Teejay32]

Teejay,
I agree with you soooo much! I almost feel that it would be better for it to be closed, because I hate to see women judged and harassed for their choices. It's so typical of our misguided society. You never see men get treated like this!

Thats why I refuse to get dragged into this thread.

I'm with you about men, but I don't necessarily see people voicing their beliefs as judging and harassing. Their beliefs are solid, and so there's no leeway there for the exceptional cases. If I felt that way I'd have a hard time making exceptions too. But this is...choosing between "bad" and "worse" and that's when you need a rabbi, or two or three, and not a poll of random fellow citizens...that was my concern, and it seems to be unfounded anyway. Never mind!

 

[JennyMominRI]

" and "worse" and that's when you need a rabbi, or two or three, and not a poll of random fellow citizens...that was my concern, and it seems to be unfounded anyway. Never mind!

Even my most orthodox friends agree with my choice.. I haven't spoken to an O Rabbi,but I do know what Jewish law says

 

[snoopy]

You can't seriously tell me that you don't think there are women out there who have abortions and don't have any qualms whatsoever about them. I believe that there is quite a high number.

Pure speculation on your part, you can't quantify that number. You think the sheer number of women who have abortions who don't have qualms is quite high simply because you think having an abortion is immoral.

Over the years I have counseled women of all ages and socioeconomic groups who have found themselves with unwanted pregnancies. In all those years, I have only met one person who I felt had no qualms about having an abortion. Most recognize the permanence of their decision, and grieve the "what ifs?" for years after the abortion.

 

[MrsKreamer]

Thou shalt not kill has already been adopted. I don't think we need to go beyond that for this discussion​

And yet Jewish law views it differently,as Jesus would have known..the Talmud actually gives very specific instructions about how to abort if the mothers life is a stake.J esus,they say, was well educated in the laws of the Talmud

I noticied this and I have to disagree. While Jesus was raised Jewish, he did not follow many of the teachings. He taught forgivness and turn the other cheek, while there law stated an eye for an eye. He broke the Jewish law by working on the Sabbath. That is actually what his charge was when he was sentenced to death. So to say that Jesus would approve of abortions in the save the mother's life situation might be a stretch. I believe that abortion is wrong, but I can not tell others how to live their lives. It is a decision that the woman has to live with.