Has anything gotten BETTER over time?

[DougEMG]

Isn’t that kind of the tricky part of measuring improvement and perks? Rarely is something universally approved or a benefit to everyone. I think the goal needs to be the greatest amount of good to the greatest number of people. I think most people approve of Aulani being in network.

I would prefer that there were only WDW resorts in the system.

 

[kevtlas]

We have been happy with our membership since joining. I agree that the member site has kept improving, and the ability to do more online has made things much easier for us when stationed overseas.

 

[eandt]

I suppose, conversely, under the heading of "perks aren't guaranteed", they could come back with some sort of marketing pitch that reads "Disney may, at any time and at its sole discretion, introduce additional perks, including complimentary Annual Passports and unlimited Fast Passes", exclusive to Disney's Vacation Club memberships purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development. Or something to that effect. They have the right to give and take as they please (no contractual obligation), and they aren't actually promising it. They're simply mentioning it as an "example" of what they "COULD" offer. And, if you were an original Disney's Vacation Club owner, it was a perk that you did in fact enjoy, so it's at least arguably within the realm of possibility.

Couple that with a guide saying something like "Well, it's not available now, and I can't say if or when it might happen, but.............. I have heard talk, and they did specifically add that to the memo that went out, so..........

This is the language RE AP's in the contract I just signed. Not sure if it is something new or not

Annual Passes: From time to time, Members may purchase select WALT DISNEY WORLD® Annual Passes (“WDW Passes”) and Disneyland Annual Passports (“DL Passes”), at a discount off the regular prices and to be used according to the terms and conditions of the WDW Passes or DL Passes purchased, to theme parks and resort attractions owned and operated by DPEP at the Walt Disney World Resort or Disneyland Resort.

 

[Bjaiken77]

I think owning DVC should mean that you are extra valued by Disney. You’ve committed 20-50 years of vacations. I shouldn’t have to look at my contract; I should just feel like I’m being taken care of.

Whenever we buy season tickets, I can tell you that the team cares about its season ticket holders. They don’t just say, “look, you got a discounted seat because you bought all 81 home games.” They try to provide as many perks and activities as they can provide, and thats only at a sporting event (not an amusement park). And if they make the playoffs, do you know who they take care of first: Season ticket holders. Loyalty and repeat business has to mean something.

 

[sssteele]

Non perk benefits that have improved are the ability to book online which was a huge benefit for me. I also really like being able to pay MF monthly from my account, not sure how long this has been in effect. A big benefit is that the rise in onsite room costs makes me feel a lot better about owning DVC.

For perks my favorites are the annual pass discount, the merch discount (although no discount might actually save me money) and the Epcot lounge. I've been to 1 Moonlight Magic which I really liked, but the odds of being at WDW when one of these events is on isn't that good. The annual pass discount is the one perk that I can't live without and the removal of it would certainly change how I vacation at WDW.

Absolutely agree with your last statement. If APs disappear, we (wife and I) will only venture into the parks occasionally. Maybe a new attraction would lure us, but I can't imagine paying over $200 a day for admission. And, of course, admission prices will continue to rise.

 

[Sandisw]

This is the language RE AP's in the contract I just signed. Not sure if it is something new or not

Annual Passes: From time to time, Members may purchase select WALT DISNEY WORLD® Annual Passes (“WDW Passes”) and Disneyland Annual Passports (“DL Passes”), at a discount off the regular prices and to be used according to the terms and conditions of the WDW Passes or DL Passes purchased, to theme parks and resort attractions owned and operated by DPEP at the Walt Disney World Resort or Disneyland Resort.

That does seem updated to me. I will have to look at my RIV documents from 2019 to see what it says.

 

[crisi]

I think owning DVC should mean that you are extra valued by Disney. You’ve committed 20-50 years of vacations. I shouldn’t have to look at my contract; I should just feel like I’m being taken care of.

Whenever we buy season tickets, I can tell you that the team cares about its season ticket holders. They don’t just say, “look, you got a discounted seat because you bought all 81 home games.” They try to provide as many perks and activities as they can provide, and thats only at a sporting event (not an amusement park). And if they make the playoffs, do you know who they take care of first: Season ticket holders. Loyalty and repeat business has to mean something.

There is a critical difference - you might not buy season tickets next year. Disney looks at DVC owners as a captive audience - you will either use your points and spend money at Disney, or you will trade your points out, and they will rent those points to someone who spends money at Disney, or you will rent your points to someone who spends money at Disney, or you will waste your points, and they will rent out the room as breakage inventory (still collecting your dues) to someone who will spend money at Disney. If you get too upset at getting treated like a captive audience, you will sell your points to someone who will spend money at Disney. Disney could care less which of these actions you take, because their end result is pretty much the same. And even if that room sits empty, they have covered their costs because you have to pay dues and made their big profit off whomever originally bought the contract.

Disney is a modern company that believes in maximizing shareholder value. Every time you think "Disney should" think "how will this impact Disney's bottom line." Because that's what Disney really wants to take care of.

 

[DougEMG]

There is a critical difference - you might not buy season tickets next year. Disney looks at DVC owners as a captive audience - you will either use your points and spend money at Disney, or you will trade your points out, and they will rent those points to someone who spends money at Disney, or you will rent your points to someone who spends money at Disney, or you will waste your points, and they will rent out the room as breakage inventory (still collecting your dues) to someone who will spend money at Disney. If you get too upset at getting treated like a captive audience, you will sell your points to someone who will spend money at Disney. Disney could care less which of these actions you take, because their end result is pretty much the same. And even if that room sits empty, they have covered their costs because you have to pay dues and made their big profit off whomever originally bought the contract.

Disney is a modern company that believes in maximizing shareholder value. Every time you think "Disney should" think "how will this impact Disney's bottom line." Because that's what Disney really wants to take care of.

The only thing missing in this is the potential for DVC members to do resort stays only and use the DVC location to visit other attractions in the Orlando area. Then Disney loses out.

 

[Bjaiken77]

I feel like a lot of these debates go in circles, which is fine because I understand people have varying points of views. I get that Disney is a business and looking out for the bottom line. However, “my happiness” (vis-a-vis high level of customer service and benefits) and “their bottom line” don’t have to be opposing. In fact, I spend a lot more money at the parks/resorts, buy more points, and recommend the club to others when I’m happy with the product. It’s in their bottom line interest to keep me that way.

 

[crisi]

The only thing missing in this is the potential for DVC members to do resort stays only and use the DVC location to visit other attractions in the Orlando area. Then Disney loses out.

And they don't actually loose, they have your capital and your dues. They probably have some of your restaurant dollars. They just make less than they would if you bought theme park tickets.

 

[crisi]

I feel like a lot of these debates go in circles, which is fine because I understand people have varying points of views. I get that Disney is a business and looking out for the bottom line. However, “my happiness” (vis-a-vis high level of customer service and benefits) and “their bottom line” don’t have to be opposing. In fact, I spend a lot more money at the parks/resorts, buy more points, and recommend the club to others when I’m happy with the product. It’s in their bottom line interest to keep me that way.

Keeping people happy costs money. And often it costs more than the gains you make. Customer service costs money - and since with DVC much of that customer service cost gets passed to us, increases in customer service don't necessarily make more people happy than the status quo - and members are currently seeing really high dues increases already because of contract negotiations (the current situation with long wait times and such is a product of the moment - plus some bad business decisions Disney made. Their marketing department has really been inept of late - throwing out promotions that the other divisions are staffed to deliver on - free dining early in the pandemic was the other one I'm thinking of). Perks cost something. The old adage that it costs more to get a customer than keep a customer has been proven to be false in many many cases (its the reason retail return policies went from liberal to really strict - my husband worked in one of the big retailers corporate offices - they ran analysis and lost money on 20% of their customers in returns - and that doesn't get into the money you lose when customers abuse your staff contributing to high staff turnover or the other costs of having people in your store. They were trying to figure out - other than returns - how to discourage 20% of their customers from coming in (spoiler: eCommerce, customers are a lot less expensive online - Disney Parks really can't do that effectively)). Disney doesn't need to keep most people happy, they simply need most people content with the status quo.

 

[Bjaiken77]

If Disney looks at us as a captive audience, and doesn’t find it profitable to provide things that make people happy, then I think people have the right to complain and try their best to make Disney uncomfortable. I don’t fully agree that Disney looks at us as a captive audience and doesn’t feel the need to promote activities that make people happy, but I understand the point and how people may hold that position.

That’s why I find these debates cyclical. I understand that Disney is a business and their goal is to be profitable, but people are always going to play that card whenever it comes to what Disney should do. I, personally, don’t find it that simple whereas I know others feel like it is. I happen to feel like keeping people happy is part of a good long term business plan, even if you only look at it from the bottom line perspective.

 

[Sandisw]

If Disney looks at us as a captive audience, and doesn’t find it profitable to provide things that make people happy, then I think people have the right to complain and try their best to make Disney uncomfortable. I don’t fully agree that Disney looks at us as a captive audience and doesn’t feel the need to promote activities that make people happy, but I understand the point and how people may hold that position.

That’s why I find these debates cyclical. I understand that Disney is a business and their goal is to be profitable, but people are always going to play that card whenever it comes to what Disney should do. I, personally, don’t find it that simple whereas I know others feel like it is. I happen to feel like keeping people happy is part of a good long term business plan, even if you only look at it from the bottom line perspective.

The harder problem is what one guest needs to be made happy doesn’t translate to everyone.

So, it’s a balance between everyone and all types of guests. Other than using points to pay for my room, I don’t see myself much different than a any other guest when it comes to things that need to be done to keep me a happy WDW guest.

For example, I am thrilled we don’t have parades and fireworks right now because boy, did it make it easier and enjoyable at the park. But, I loved the little pop up things that happened during the day.

That of course is not to say that it isn’t nice to see things done here and there, but not much that we need to enjoy it. And there in lies the difficulty because what I need to be happy is not what others need.

 

[Bjaiken77]

The harder problem is what one guest needs to be made happy doesn’t translate to everyone.

So, it’s a balance between everyone and all types of guests. Other than using points to pay for my room, I don’t see myself much different than a any other guest when it comes to things that need to be done to keep me a happy WDW guest.

For example, I am thrilled we don’t have parades and fireworks right now because boy, did it make it easier and enjoyable at the park. But, I loved the little pop up things that happened during the day.

That of course is not to say that it isn’t nice to see things done here and there, but not much that we need to enjoy it. And there in lies the difficulty because what I need to be happy is not what others need.

Yeah, I’m fine with that, but I’m reading comments essentially saying Disney doesn’t care about DVC member experience, specifically it being a good experience, because DVC members are a captive audience and providing an exceptional experience costs money. I just don’t hold that opinion.

 

[Sandisw]

Yeah, I’m fine with that, but I’m reading comments essentially saying Disney doesn’t care about DVC member experience, specifically it being a good experience, because DVC members are a captive audience and providing an exceptional experience costs money. I just don’t hold that opinion.

I agree with them but only to the extent that DPEP who make a lot of the decisions regarding experiences doesn’t see us a a different subset of guests when making decisions,

I think it is up to DVD who sells and markets the product to find ways to make agreements with other divisions to enhance the experience.

In that I agree with you as I believe that they see us as important because we are the ones who help them sell the program to gain new buyers. I think it’s why we saw the 4 plus 2 free tickets. It may not have been much but it was certainly popular!

 

[Bjaiken77]

I agree with them but only to the extent that DPEP who make a lot of the decisions regarding experiences doesn’t see us a a different subset of guests when making decisions,

I think it is up to DVD who sells and markets the product to find ways to make agreements with other divisions to enhance the experience.

In that I agree with you as I believe that they see us as important because we are the ones who help them sell the program to gain new buyers. I think it’s why we saw the 4 plus 2 free tickets. It may not have been much but it was certainly popular!

I hear you 100%, and I understand that there are subdivisions that may have differing point of views. I’m new enough to DVC to say I don’t know what those viewpoints may be. However, as long as it’s attached to the Disney name, I don’t draw distinctions between subdivisions. It’s a Disney product, and I’m holding Disney accountable and responsible for everything that falls underneath it, both the good and the bad.

As with any large corporation or bureaucracy, the key is to get your concern to the person whose job is to care about the core mission of the product or agency. I’m not so cynical as to believe that any large corporation is immune to customer feedback regarding its ability to produce intended and expected results. I came into DVC during the pandemic, so that’s a reason that pretty much all businesses have gone off script. We’ll see what happens once things return to normal.

 

[crisi]

I hear you 100%, and I understand that there are subdivisions that may have differing point of views. I’m new enough to DVC to say I don’t know what those viewpoints may be. However, as long as it’s attached to the Disney name, I don’t draw distinctions between subdivisions. It’s a Disney product, and I’m holding Disney accountable and responsible for everything that falls underneath it, both the good and the bad.

As with any large corporation or bureaucracy, the key is to get your concern to the person whose job is to care about the core mission of the product or agency. I’m not so cynical as to believe that any large corporation is immune to customer feedback regarding its ability to produce intended and expected results. I came into DVC during the pandemic, so that’s a reason that pretty much all businesses have gone off script. We’ll see what happens once things return to normal.

You don't but Disney does. And they have to. Each division has its own P&L. Each division President is evaluated off his P&L. And if you manage to get the ear of Bob Chapek, you are doing well - because that is the guy whose job it is to care about the core mission. And Disney CEOs tend to think their core mission is "protecting shareholder value."

 

[Bjaiken77]

You don't but Disney does. And they have to. Each division has its own P&L. Each division President is evaluated off his P&L. And if you manage to get the ear of Bob Chapek, you are doing well - because that is the guy whose job it is to care about the core mission. And Disney CEOs tend to think their core mission is "protecting shareholder value."

I hear you. But if you only care about the bottom line on every decision you make, eventually, it starts to erode your bottom line. Additionally, people making things uncomfortable tends to draw their attention. That’s the power of social media. Look what happened with Game Stop and AMC on Reddit. I haven’t been with DVC long, but I’ve been around Disney all my life. I believe there is accountability beyond shareholders, even though you have to keep them happy, of course.

 

[crisi]

I hear you. But if you only care about the bottom line on every decision you make, eventually, it starts to erode your bottom line. Additionally, people making things uncomfortable tends to draw their attention. That’s the power of social media. Look what happened with Game Stop and AMC on Reddit. I haven’t been with DVC long, but I’ve been around Disney all my life. I believe there is accountability beyond shareholders, even though you have to keep them happy, of course.

GameStop and AMC on Reddit had little to do with customer service or anything else. That was creating a call for short sellers for a pair of dying companies. Both have had lousy fundamentals for years, and Covid was really hard on AMC.

And while I agree with you that is how companies should work, the reality is since the 1980s, investors and shareholders reward short term gains. A quarter - a year. Maybe three. They don't care beyond that. Executive compensation reflects this short term thinking. And Disney is in a state of complacency regarding theme parks - no matter what they cut, theme park attendance goes up. AND they did decide to make a bunch of long term investments in theme parks - they invested a TON of capital - then Covid hit and their bottom line took a hit. Its going to be a few years of belt tightening to make sure they can meet their covenant obligations. Since their biggest line item is employment costs, expect to not see pre-Covid levels of staffing for some time.

 

[Bjaiken77]

GameStop and AMC on Reddit had little to do with customer service or anything else. That was creating a call for short sellers for a pair of dying companies. Both have had lousy fundamentals for years, and Covid was really hard on AMC.

And while I agree with you that is how companies should work, the reality is since the 1980s, investors and shareholders reward short term gains. A quarter - a year. Maybe three. They don't care beyond that. Executive compensation reflects this short term thinking. And Disney is in a state of complacency regarding theme parks - no matter what they cut, theme park attendance goes up. AND they did decide to make a bunch of long term investments in theme parks - they invested a TON of capital - then Covid hit and their bottom line took a hit. Its going to be a few years of belt tightening to make sure they can meet their covenant obligations. Since their biggest line item is employment costs, expect to not see pre-Covid levels of staffing for some time.

I’m talking about the power of social media with GameStop and AMC. We have difference of opinion, which is fine.