Harry Potter & The Deathly Hallows

[lillielil]

I'm glad that Molly had her shining moment of glory... but it makes me wonder. If she was such a powerful witch (and she must have been, to hold her own against Bellatrix), then why did she spend nearly 7 years doing little more than making turnips fly around the kitchen? She was essentially a maid for the Order of the Phoenix, when she had the skill to do so much more. That's pretty lame. I think there's an awful of lot of misogyny in the books in general... women are, for the most part, either evil or weak. I've also noticed a lot of discussion on various boards about how readers wished that Tonks had stayed home with her son instead of joining the battle, but not a single person has said that Remus should have stayed back. That makes me GRRRRRRR.

However... Neville's moment of triumph? Pure YAY. I was yelling so much at that part. And Kreatcher leading the house-elves into battle... I totally got misty-eyed at that.

As much as I hate to admit it (having always been a fan), I wasn't thrilled with Snape's story line. I didn't mind him as a one-dimentional character before - it was a good dimention! The new one was kind of pathetic... I don't buy it that every decision he made in life was because of a childhood crush.

Now I'm starting to sound like I didn't like the book at all, which is NOT TRUE! I loved it, but the more I think about it, the more I want to nitpick.

 

[rpmdfw]

I'm glad that Molly had her shining moment of glory... but it makes me wonder. If she was such a powerful witch (and she must have been, to hold her own against Bellatrix), then why did she spend nearly 7 years doing little more than making turnips fly around the kitchen? She was essentially a maid for the Order of the Phoenix, when she had the skill to do so much more. That's pretty lame.

You're assuming that she WANTED to do more. Seems to me that Molly was very happy being a wife and mother. And she enjoyed mothering EVERYONE she cared about, not just her own children. She's a very strong-willed character, you can't tell me that Arthur could have kept her from doing anything she damn well pleased. Let's not discount the contributions of strong women who have chosen to be wives and mothers. Their contributions are as great as everyone elses. Inferring that caring about loved ones is less important than fighting on the front lines diminishes her contributions to the Order. And when the time came for her to do battle to protect her loved ones, she stepped up and did it well.

After all, equality is about being able to make those kinds of choices. Even if people choose to follow the more "traditional" course, it's their choice. She made her choice as an equal. Far be it from me to second-guess what makes someone else happy. And despite the level of tragedy Molly endures through the books, she's a happy and loving mother. A role model, even, for surviving adversity without becoming embittered. She's every bit the hero that the rest of the Order is.

 

[lillielil]

You're assuming that she WANTED to do more. Seems to me that Molly was very happy being a wife and mother. And she enjoyed mothering EVERYONE she cared about, not just her own children. She's a very strong-willed character, you can't tell me that Arthur could have kept her from doing anything she damn well pleased. Let's not discount the contributions of strong women who have chosen to be wives and mothers. Their contributions are as great as everyone elses. Inferring that caring about loved ones is less important than fighting on the front lines diminishes her contributions to the Order. And when the time came for her to do battle to protect her loved ones, she stepped up and did it well.

After all, equality is about being able to make those kinds of choices. Even if people choose to follow the more "traditional" course, it's their choice. She made her choice as an equal. Far be it from me to second-guess what makes someone else happy. And despite the level of tragedy Molly endures through the books, she's a happy and loving mother. A role model, even, for surviving adversity without becoming embittered. She's every bit the hero that the rest of the Order is.

I see where you're coming from, but don't quite agree. My problem isn't so much with that one character, but with the representation of women throughout the series. If she had been the lone Mama Bear, I would have loved it, but as a pattern... no good. I'm in no way saying being a SAHM isn't a valid choice (hell, I'd love to do it), but something about the way it's presented in the HP books is not quite right.

 

[rpmdfw]

I see where you're coming from, but don't quite agree. My problem isn't so much with that one character, but with the representation of women throughout the series. If she had been the lone Mama Bear, I would have loved it, but as a pattern... no good. I'm in no way saying being a SAHM isn't a valid choice (hell, I'd love to do it), but something about the way it's presented in the HP books is not quite right.

But your comment was essentially that Molly's potential had been wasted. I doubt she'd see it that way. And that all the women in the series are either evil or weak.

So you're saying that McGonnagall, and Hermione, and Ginny, and Fleur aren't strong female characters? How about Katie Bell and Angelina Johnson? Or Madame Hooch (granted she's not really around much in after the first couple books)?

Or for pete's sake, how about Lily Potter, who's strength of character sets the entire story into motion.

I don't see how all the women in the serious are portrayed as either evil or weak. I see several strong women on the right side. And a lot who aren't strong on the evil side.

I think she's done a fantastic job of giving us a variety of characters both male and female.

 

[I<3EvilQueen]

Don't forget Granny Longbottom, Alice Longbottom, and Professor Sprout. Even Narcissa was strong in the fact that she would defy the Dark Lord (twice if not more) to make sure that her family was safe.

 

[rpmdfw]

Don't forget Granny Longbottom, Alice Longbottom, and Professor Sprout. Even Narcissa was strong in the fact that she would defy the Dark Lord (twice if not more) to make sure that her family was safe.

And how about Daffy, Dippy Professor Trelawney throwing crystal balls down onto the heads of Death Eaters.

 

[ConcKahuna]

I kind of expected Molly to snap, after her confrontation with the Boggart.

The part that really suprised me was Dudley! I just wish they had followed up more on the Dursleys.

 

[Coopsmum77]

As much as I hate to admit it (having always been a fan), I wasn't thrilled with Snape's story line. I didn't mind him as a one-dimentional character before - it was a good dimention! The new one was kind of pathetic... I don't buy it that every decision he made in life was because of a childhood crush.

I don't think Snape has ever been one-dimensional, except for in the movies. He comes off as a waste of time in the movies. In the books, you could always sense there was something more just beyond your reach.

I don't think that his protection of Harry was because of his childhood crush, but rather his betrayal of that friendship. He essentially killed Lily. If I had caused the death of one of my friends, that is something I would carry around with me for the rest of my life. If I could relieve the smallest bit of my guilt by looking after her child, then I think I would devote my life to that. What else did he have in his life, other than his friendship with Lily, and his alliance with the Death Eaters?

 

[RemixBoyNJ]

The only characters you really have to worry about in the books are the Fathers... be it god or otherwise.. there is a good chance you end up dead ..LOL

 

[rpmdfw]

Okay, here's a question that my partner, my mom and I have been kicking around since last night.

When Voldemort cast the Avada Kedavra curse on Harry in the Forbidden Forest, did Harry survive it because the curse killed the portion of Voldemort's soul that was living inside Harry, because Harry was the master of the Deathly Hallows, or because Harry's blood was running through Voldemort's regenerated body and tied Harry to him?

Each of us it's convinced that it's one of those three things. What do y'all think?

 

[ConcKahuna]

Okay, here's a question that my partner, my mom and I have been kicking around since last night.

When Voldemort cast the Avada Kevadra curse on Harry in the Forbidden Forest, did Harry survive it because the curse killed the portion of Voldemort's soul that was living inside Harry, because Harry was the master of the Deathly Hallows, or because Harry's blood was running through Voldemort's regenerated body and tied Harry to him?

Each of us it's convinced that it's one of those three things. What do y'all think?

All of the above, in my opinion. When Harry was "dead," the withered creature that was there was the fragment of Voldemort's soul (in my opinion). Since Harry was the master of the Deathly Hallows (even though he didn't posess the Elder Wand, he was it's master), he was able to choose if he wanted to die or not. I also think one of the reasons the Elder Wand considered its self as in Harry's control was because of his blood in Voldemort.

 

[rpmdfw]

When Harry was "dead," the withered creature that was there was the fragment of Voldemort's soul (in my opinion).

I hadn't figured that out! But that's got to be what it was!

Good catch!

 

[TuckandStuiesMom]

WOW! I ditched work this afternoon and finally finished the book (Mundania has been a busy place around here lately). YES -- I had already read the last chapter and it's embarrassing to admit it -- but I was totally ready NOT to read the book if it had turned out that Harry had been permanently killed. Once I had that concern resolved, I was able to start at the beginning and read it as it was mean to be read.
JKR always has such witty and interesting word etymologies that I have been searching like crazy for a meaning within a meaning for Horcrux. She uses latin derivatives a lot and there may be a tie-in there -- Crux (cross, intersection, "heart/crux of the matter") and maybe horrere (to bristle with fear, "horror", "abhorrent") but then I would have expected the plural to be horcrucia or horcruces; not horcruxes. Oh well, I cringe everytime I hear the Bloomberg guys talking about various indexES too.

 

[TuckandStuiesMom]

I kind of expected Molly to snap, after her confrontation with the Boggart.

The part that really suprised me was Dudley! I just wish they had followed up more on the Dursleys.

I've just been on my other board (English) and I will say, I think the women there tend to be more a smidge more "girly" as a whole than we are, here. Love'em all to death but I think JKR's portrayal of Molly as more hearth-centered is not far off the mark.

 

[ILuvDVC2]

Don't forget that JKR will be on a 2-hour "Dateline NBC" tonight at 7 p.m. EST... Since it appears a lot of us have read it, we won't be worried about any spoilers and can find out if she answers any of the questions/issues we've brought up here.

 

[Disney MAINEiac]

Just finished it this morning....by far, it blew away the others. I loved it.

totally agree, totally exceeded all my expectations, I could not be happier with this book

 

[Viki]

I thought the book was perfect ... I was surprised that so many were killed off, but it was a war!