Harry and Meghan Netflix documentary

[Ms Bibbidi]

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[JPPT1974]

Yeah as really it seems that the Monarchy has on a stiff upper lip. My mom says what Harry and Meghan are doing is wrong. And how that in the blasting the now late Queen Elizabeth is only making them look even worse there.
But that Harry did not want his wife to be another Diana. Sure Diana and Meghan knew what they were getting themselves into by marrying into royalty. But that really the Monarchy way of doing things seems to be these days outdated. Time for a fresh changing of the guard, no pun intended.
One thing for certain, never talk bad about the now late Queen. Really that crossed a huge line.

 

[mousefan73]

I think Meghan grew up used to getting her way, whether this was because a doting father, uncle, or being determined and smart.

I think she believed she would be able to create her own role within the family without interference. And that she would be able to make changes where necessary.
When it turned out she couldn't, she decided this was not for her and she was better off in the US.

In previous threads about H & M I also suggested that Meghan has narcissistic tendencies. She reminds me of cult leaders.

https://www.psycom.net/personality-disorders/narcissistic#symptoms
https://www.psychmechanics.com/characteristics-of-cult-leaders/

I hope the Palace gives the Sussex Survivors a chance to speak. It will give a different insight who H&M are. You truly see someone's character when you see how they treat their parents or people working for them.

Agree especially as the Queen offered Meghan the chance shadow/ have Sophie as a type of onboarding help. Meghan declined. Supposidly said she is ok as she has Harry. Says she wanted to forge her own path. Naive in a way knowing what she was up against. P

 

[Karin1984]

Agree especially as the Queen offered Meghan the chance shadow/ have Sophie as a type of onboarding help. Meghan declined. Supposidly said she is ok as she has Harry. Says she wanted to forge her own path. Naive in a way knowing what she was up against. P

Harry says "I know nothing about style", she tries to get her outfits together herself (so she says), while there are aides and stylists who can help.

For Meghan's first outing with the Queen, she got a call from the queen's aide: the queen will be wearing a hat.
That is code for: wear a hat!

If she had listened to a royal stylist, they could have told her that.

 

[barkley]

I am still convinced if they had had patience, they could have either created a role within the royal family the way they wanted, or they could have left and get a half in / half out construction.

Most European kingdoms have some sort halfway system for the second sons and daughters. They have their own lives, jobs, charities they support and show up at the important national events.

But these things take time. Wanting it all and wanting it now is what ruined them.

YES.

charles has been a proponent of a slimmed down monarchy so had the couple been patient and worked cooperatively with 'the firm' it could have been mutually beneficial to both's stated desires and goals. it could also have created positive p.r. with those who support the slimmed down concept as well as those who want to see it more modernized. presenting it in the manner of wanting to both save taxpayer dollars as well as transitioning to a 'better work/private life balance' would have been a tremendously progressive p.r. move. i don't think h&m gave a thought or care about any of this though-they saw themselves as the stars of the royal show and thought they could get whatever they wanted. they may have even been successful to a degree if they had not made what i perceive was a fatal decision in their pre-planning-trying to register harry's hrh title into a trademark. that single action spoke volumes about their lack of respect and true (financial and self promotion) motivations.

 

[igrsod]

This whole thing just points out how outdated and antiquated the Monarchy is. Times are changing and the monarchy needs to modernize. I am so shocked at how involved people are in Harry and Meghan's lives on here, who seem to dislike them. If you don't like something, don't dedicate time talking and thinking about it.... time to move on to talk about things you like. We are not going to change anything and we don't even have all the facts... we have what people on both sides want us to know.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

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[Ms Bibbidi]

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[igrsod]

I could not disagree more. It is clear that these statements show a profound lack of understanding about the monarchy.

Possibly true.... but you are telling me that all the pomp, pageantry, protocol is necessary? Are you telling me that the Royal wealth wasn't built on the backs of racism? Most other countries that had Monarchies have moved on. I don't need to get into a philosophical discussion here, but my point is, that my personal opinion is it's time for a new modern monarchy. The Royals are just as "wrong" here as H & M are... they spin and leak all the same. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.... where we will never know.

 

[Karin1984]

Possibly true.... but you are telling me that all the pomp, pageantry, protocol is necessary? Are you telling me that the Royal wealth wasn't built on the backs of racism? Most other countries that had Monarchies have moved on. I don't need to get into a philosophical discussion here, but my point is, that my personal opinion is it's time for a new modern monarchy. The Royals are just as "wrong" here as H & M are... they spin and leak all the same. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.... where we will never know.

It is not necessary, but I think it is part of human civilization and culture.

Every form of government has some form of pomp, pageantry and protocol. We had all kinds ceremonies where the leader played an important role in cavemen days, and we will have it thousands of years from now.

And each government is formed, got their wealth etc. through unfair or unequal systems. That goes for each country and culture, it is still the case, it will always be like that.

 

[barkley]

Possibly true.... but you are telling me that all the pomp, pageantry, protocol is necessary? Are you telling me that the Royal wealth wasn't built on the backs of racism? Most other countries that had Monarchies have moved on. I don't need to get into a philosophical discussion here, but my point is, that my personal opinion is it's time for a new modern monarchy. The Royals are just as "wrong" here as H & M are... they spin and leak all the same. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.... where we will never know.

these are issues charles will need to address. i think on the issue of comparing the british monarchy vs. other countries where they've largely been abolished is that in recent past and current times the british monarchy IS a tremendous source of revenue to the u.k. so you have co-dependency. reports over the past several years have indicated that the cost of retaining the monarchy is about the equivalent to $2 per u.k. person per year while the net PROFIT to the u.k. is in the billions per year. the dissolution of other monarchys, many of which had true power that impacted individual countries and people's day to day lives is very different from eliminating a group of individuals with no real impact power but serve as large scale employers and a tremendous source of revenue.

 

[Tink-osophy]

This whole thing just points out how outdated and antiquated the Monarchy is. Times are changing and the monarchy needs to modernize. I am so shocked at how involved people are in Harry and Meghan's lives on here, who seem to dislike them. If you don't like something, don't dedicate time talking and thinking about it.... time to move on to talk about things you like. We are not going to change anything and we don't even have all the facts... we have what people on both sides want us to know.

As a Brit, I'd say that they need to tread carefully in terms of change. Yes, some change is overdue (publicly and, probably, even more-so behind the scenes), but there isn't exactly a modern model anywhere else that doesn't have many similar challenges in their own ways and the history, pomp and pageantry is also at the heart of a lot of British patriotism and sense of community (we need to keep that) ...and it's, also, a big part of our tourist industry (domestically and internationally).

As for people being involved in Harry & Meghan's lives, that is purely because of the measure of their potential reach and influence and because of the consistency and volume of their negativity.

People tend to react when others keep criticizing and making claims against them (and they've definitely been criticizing us!).
People tend to react when others try to assert influence over them (that should, surely, never pass freely without challenge).
People tend to react when others create global, sensational television.

There's more at stake, here, than just talking about what you do like instead. (Although, I do recognize that is, generally in life, a good mantra to live by. )

 

[Tink-osophy]

these are issues charles will need to address. i think on the issue of comparing the british monarchy vs. other countries where they've largely been abolished is that in recent past and current times the british monarchy IS a tremendous source of revenue to the u.k. so you have co-dependency. reports over the past several years have indicated that the cost of retaining the monarchy is about the equivalent to $2 per u.k. person per year while the net PROFIT to the u.k. is in the billions per year. the dissolution of other monarchys, many of which had true power that impacted individual countries and people's day to day lives is very different from eliminating a group of individuals with no real impact power but serve as large scale employers and a tremendous source of revenue.

Well said.

 

[Karin1984]

As for people being involved in Harry & Meghan's lives, that is purely because of the measure of their potential reach and influence and because of the consistency and volume of their negativity.

And because it is like watching a trainwreck. You can't look away.

It is what we in Dutch call disaster tourism, the slowing down on the highway to watch the police and ambulances when an accident has happened.

And for some: schädenfreude, happiness at the misfortune of others. "Thank God, I am not like them / living their lives.

 

[Tink-osophy]

Monetizing their royal status is never ok. It is a huge conflict of interest. Example: a US military officer (even a retired one) can never use their military rank and status as a commercial brand. They cannot endorse Acme night goggles or John Q Public, Maj Gen US Army missiles. The rank and status are a function of a US government position. Such rank and status must be used only within the official military government structure. To break this rigid barrier invites fraud, self-dealing (instead of the public’s interest), corruption and allowing discreditable individuals or organizations to use the government status.

The British monarchy is the same. It is a thousand year old British institution with a very specific purpose, to be Head of State. It represents the the British people. There is no room in that purpose to negotiate with Meghan so she can turn that status into a brand for her to use for monetary purposes or to create or maintain a celebrity status. ...

Great post! Especially, for me, the bold text.

I realise that Harry and Meghan are complaining about their treatment, but I get the sense that a lot of that is a reaction to not getting their way as you have described.

And because it is like watching a trainwreck. You can't look away. ...

Sad, but true.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

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[Karin1984]

Today one of the British tabloids (don't remember which one) wrote about the celebrities they surrounded themselves with 2 years ago and what is left.

They compared it with Michelle Obama's current booktour. She brings friends, tweets about them, they tweet back how wonderful the book or the event was. Good for them, good for Michelle, good for book sales.

None of the big names have spoken out about H&M.This is their moment and no one (famous) wants to talk about them.

When was it when Oprah promoted Meghan's investment in a luxury tea/coffee brand?

Either the famous people realize this is a hornet's nest, or because people loose interest in their projects.

Gyles Brandreth was a close friend of Prince Phillip and because of this also close with many other royals. He wrote a book about the Queen, with some interesting details and insight knowledge, but all interviewers want to talk about is H&M. (They say the RF let him write about the Queen's cancer battle to avoid Harry dropping that bomb in his book)

George Clooney isn't just George Clooney anymore, but also George Clooney the H&M wedding guest/friend. When something happens, they will ask him for a response.

 

[HopperFan]

Possibly true.... but you are telling me that all the pomp, pageantry, protocol is necessary? Are you telling me that the Royal wealth wasn't built on the backs of racism? Most other countries that had Monarchies have moved on. I don't need to get into a philosophical discussion here, but my point is, that my personal opinion is it's time for a new modern monarchy. The Royals are just as "wrong" here as H & M are... they spin and leak all the same. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.... where we will never know.

WOW ~ I'm no royal watcher but I at least respect the importance of it their traditions. This is a lot of negative energy towards something their countrymen hold in high regard. It does not matter what any other country does, each country is free to do their own thing. And it certainly isn't on an American who claimed to know nothing about the royals to make those changes. And honestly, it hurts no one.

As a Brit, I'd say that they need to tread carefully in terms of change. Yes, some change is overdue (publicly and, probably, even more-so behind the scenes), but there isn't exactly a modern model anywhere else that doesn't have many similar challenges in their own ways and the history, pomp and pageantry is also at the heart of a lot of British patriotism and sense of community (we need to keep that) ...and it's, also, a big part of our tourist industry (domestically and internationally).

As for people being involved in Harry & Meghan's lives, that is purely because of the measure of their potential reach and influence and because of the consistency and volume of their negativity.

People tend to react when others keep criticizing and making claims against them (and they've definitely been criticizing us!).
People tend to react when others try to assert influence over them (that should, surely, never pass freely without challenge).
People tend to react when others create global, sensational television.

There's more at stake, here, than just talking about what you do like instead. (Although, I do recognize that is, generally in life, a good mantra to live by. )

SO MUCH THIS!

It is obvious that many people (Meghan included) do not understand or respect the fabric of the importance of all this.

While I am of English/Irish descent and my great grandmother (who I knew) was born & raised in England, I am not fully informed of traditions BUT I respect them. Perhaps that is why so many are put out by Harry & Meghan's actions, because they blatantly appear to disrespect. Harry has lived a quite blessed life because of it, but he now bites the hand that fed him, over and over.

these are issues charles will need to address. i think on the issue of comparing the british monarchy vs. other countries where they've largely been abolished is that in recent past and current times the british monarchy IS a tremendous source of revenue to the u.k. so you have co-dependency. reports over the past several years have indicated that the cost of retaining the monarchy is about the equivalent to $2 per u.k. person per year while the net PROFIT to the u.k. is in the billions per year. the dissolution of other monarchys, many of which had true power that impacted individual countries and people's day to day lives is very different from eliminating a group of individuals with no real impact power but serve as large scale employers and a tremendous source of revenue.

While I have never been a fan of Charles and am quite disappointed he became King for historical reasons, I do think he has spoken of downsizing, some restructuring which will make sense on many levels. He has to understand for longevity change needs to happen. But he understands there is a careful line to not diminish traditions.

AND as you say the monarchy is a HUGE income generator in many ways, especially tourism. But to continue to be that draw they must also maintain many of the traditions and commitments that others call fluff.

I do think the most important thing Charles can do right now is cut H&M off in all ways. Leaving any attachment strings just keeps this nonsense going on and on. A cut off with a "wish you well" "be successful" " lead your lives in a way that makes you happy" " we are happy for your contentment" and that be the end of it. Apron strings will only perpetuate this and hurt the monarchy.

 

[igrsod]

No. I said, "I could not disagree more. It is clear that these statements show a profound lack of understanding about the monarchy." It is a common activist tactic to try to put words into somebody else's mouth so there can be an argument. Especially if the words raise issues that are current hot-button issues. I didn't say any of those things, so I will step back and let you argue with -- yourself, I guess.

Just remember that one of the hallmarks of a narcissist is -- they are compulsive liars. Once that is understood, it is really difficult to watch what she is doing to herself and both sides of her family. So, don't start out here assuming the truth is in the middle. What a lovely idea for "compromise." But, I don't hear anybody accusing William or Charles of lying. Anyway, this is not a case for trial in the court of public opinion. One also does not "compromise" the real, factual truth with a narcissist. That is folly. This is a situation wherein a family with a huge public duty and trust that is important to a nation -- indeed a global commonwealth -- is trying hard to best handle an explosive family member who probably has a serious mental health issue.

I am also very disappointed in Netflix, Spotify and Oprah for exploiting the vulnerable characteristics of a family member with a serious mental health condition. Would they be so quick to profit from somebody with Autism, Alzheimer's or PTSD? How about a child with Downs? That by itself is appalling. There are many experts that have already stated in published media that she has a NPD health issue. It is obvious to them. Somebody at Netflix now realizes this and yet they are going ahead with Part II? What about the book publisher? But, before constructive mental health management must come other phases and some acceptance by the patient. Then some kind management can begin that protects all involved. This is not about the history of the British people or even about any racism at all. It is ultimately about trying to avoid the explosions and care for a family member who needs help. The nature of NPD complicates this beyond belief. That is why you do hear Charles saying over and over they are beloved family members. He "gets it." But, right now there are limited things he can do.

One more thing about Oprah. At the time of the famous Meghan to Oprah interview it is obvious, Oprah did not know about Meghan and the issue of NPD. When recently asked about whether William and Harry would ever reconcile, she firmly told the reporter she did not get into what was a family issue between the brothers. I applaud her for that. I think she is starting to get the big picture. I wish Netflix and the book publisher would do the same.

I was just pointing out a differing opinion. That does not create an argument. It is ok to listen to others with ideas or opinions differing from your own. I only offer an opinion that is my own... I don't expect to change yours or anyone else's mind. I just see this as a situation that does fall in the middle somewhere. I guarantee you that mistakes have been made on both sides.

 

[BayouQueen]

Today one of the British tabloids (don't remember which one) wrote about the celebrities they surrounded themselves with 2 years ago and what is left.

They compared it with Michelle Obama's current booktour. She brings friends, tweets about them, they tweet back how wonderful the book or the event was. Good for them, good for Michelle, good for book sales.

None of the big names have spoken out about H&M.This is their moment and no one (famous) wants to talk about them.

When was it when Oprah promoted Meghan's investment in a luxury tea/coffee brand?

Either the famous people realize this is a hornet's nest, or because people loose interest in their projects.

Gyles Brandreth was a close friend of Prince Phillip and because of this also close with many other royals. He wrote a book about the Queen, with some interesting details and insight knowledge, but all interviewers want to talk about is H&M. (They say the RF let him write about the Queen's cancer battle to avoid Harry dropping that bomb in his book)

George Clooney isn't just George Clooney anymore, but also George Clooney the H&M wedding guest/friend. When something happens, they will ask him for a response.

I think this will be the resolution to this mess. No A-listers will “side” with H&M, rather than with the King. Only a total megalomaniac would think they would. Eventually interest will evaporate, along with invitations to events. Fewer photo ops, no matter how hard M strives.