Harry and Meghan Netflix documentary

[Karin1984]

One more thought I had:

Meghan claims that she was never aware of her skin colour, until she moved to the UK.

Is there any explanation in the episodes how that works with the story that her mother was mistaken for her nanny due to their different skin colours?

 

[RoseGold]

If she had said from the beginning "I will not give this sign of respect, because I am not a British citizen," it would be seen as rejecting the entire royal family and what it stands for.

But that is what she said in that hugging mess with Kate. She's a cool American girl like Michelle Obama. She doesn't need that old-fashioned crap. At least that's the current schtick.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Gonna give it a try, although I am sure part of it is that this is one of the few things that the tabloids can pick on. Although, an Australian critic (where they want to leave the Commonwealth) saw it as an attack as well.

As with everything they do, it is not what they say, it is how they say it.
The century old tradition of a bow or curtsy to the queen is a sign of respect. A sign of respect is not something to mock. By exagerrating and comparing it to a cheesy US dinner show, Meghan gives off an air "Oh my God, these traditions are sooooo stupid!" And not necessarily making fun of herself, "I was such a clutch."

If she would ever be in the presence of Charles or Camilla again, or in the future William or Kate, and she makes a curtsy, this is the image everyone will be thinking of. Knowing what she thinks (or seems to think) about their traditions is something she should have kept to herself.

If they had had a British Director it is unlikely this was included or included in this way. This is subtext an American probably can't pick up. It is likely that Meghan and Liz thought the same way you did, or thought that it would appeal to the US audience. And I think Harry just agreed with it them.

I am trying to think of an American equivalent. Is there something with the president or an army officer be saluted by soldiers?
Or, Harry who on veteran's day staged an inspecties of soldiers at Pearl Harbour? I believe that's a new little scandal.

Well stated, especially the bolded.

 

[jonny123]

These threads just become a ****show.

And ---

I once said very early in their dating time years ago, that for me there is just something about her I find disingenuous. Don't hate her in the least, I hope it all works but for both of them. But regardless I just can't shake that. Nothing remotely catty or remotely attacking, at a time back when everyone loved her. And I got let's see - "some women don't like women" and "catty" and possibly prejudice slants.

But the funniest thing back then is I also said Hey sometimes I just feel things about people, it is not as judgemental as it sounds. I added, Look Ellen is so beloved as well and I get a disingenuous vibe from her too & quite frankly feel guilty since she is so loved.

And then another poster came on and said my daughter is like that, can sense things about people. She has this weird list in her head that includes random people like Morgan Freeman.

And then it seemed like two seconds later both Ellen & Morgan Freeman had huge scandals. Laughing. Mostly about how they are not who you think they are.

And then Meghan wanted a secluded and private life in Canada.

Megan could have NPD

 

[Pea-n-Me]

It's a sign of respect to their head of state. Meghan wasn't (and isn't) a UK citizen, she didn't have to curtsy at all.

This is like a Brit putting both hands on their heart for the pledge of allegiance. They don't have to do the pledge at all, this isn't even their country. And that isn't even how we do it.

This is kind of funny.

https://www.insider.com/queen-elizabeth-meeting-presidents-controversy-awkward-moments-2021-6

 

[Karin1984]

But that is what she said in that hugging mess with Kate. She's a cool American girl like Michelle Obama. She doesn't need that old-fashioned crap. At least that's the current schtick.

That is why she would have benefitted from a longer courtship/engagement/post wedding period. Then Meghan could have looked into where she wanted to adjust to this life and where it clashed too much with her beliefs.

Also rejecting the help from other royals and aides was not a wise decision. Sophie Wessex could have told her where there was room for your own opinion and interpretation, and where there was no wiggle room.

 

[RoseGold]

Even if she never became a British subject, and Megxit never happened, the family and the people of the UK would have expected that she would follow traditions. Especially if you want your (future) family in law to like you.
If she had said from the beginning "I will not give this sign of respect, because I am not a British citizen," it would be seen as rejecting the entire royal family and what it stands for.

Michelle Obama didn't curtsy, Melania didn't curtsy. Americans are not supposed to curtsy.

Her initial narrative -- awshucks who's Prince Harry? I'm in the Princess Diaries -- required her to learn to curtsy, but she could have gone with the actual correct answer, which is that she is American and doesn't have to do this. And it would have ended up matching where the narrative ended up. Even when she converted to the Queen's religion, she still wan't her subject.

 

[ford family]

Gonna give it a try, although I am sure part of it is that this is one of the few things that the tabloids can pick on. Although, an Australian critic (where they want to leave the Commonwealth) saw it as an attack as well.

I think you are confusing two issues.
Australia is talking about becoming a Republic with an elected head of state rather than, as of now, King Charles.

They could, and probably would, remain a member of the Commonwealth.

Of the current 56 Commonwealth members, 32 are already Republics and some others even have their own monarchy instead of the British one.

ford family

 

[RoseGold]

I cringed when I heard that recorded phone call when he was proposing or had just proposed. She planned to sell it. Why else would you record that?

Once Megxit was on the table, sure, get Netflix to loan you some equipment. But this was obviously a plan way before that.

 

[Karin1984]

Michelle Obama didn't curtsy, Melania didn't curtsy. Americans are not supposed to curtsy.

Her initial narrative -- awshucks who's Prince Harry? I'm in the Princess Diaries -- required her to learn to curtsy, but she could have gone with the actual correct answer, which is that she is American and doesn't have to do this. And it would have ended up matching where the narrative ended up. Even when she converted to the Queen's religion, she still wan't her subject.

How are these women the same? Besides they are American, the situation when they curtsy (or not) and their relationship to the queen are completely different.

I think you are confusing two issues.
Australia is talking about becoming a Republic with an elected head of state rather than, as of now, King Charles.

They could, and probably would, remain a member of the Commonwealth.

Of the current 56 Commonwealth members, 32 are already Republics and some others even have their own monarchy instead of the British one.

ford family

My bad, I thought Australia wanted both.

 

[RoseGold]

How are these women the same? Besides they are American, the situation when they curtsy (or not) and their relationship to the queen are completely different.

She has the same legal relationship to the queen as Michelle or Melania, which is nothing. Meghan wasn't (and still isnt) a subject.

I could make a better argument for cultural practice, like bowing in Japan. Everybody does it, just do it to fit in. You'd do it to any older family member or formal situation or whatever. But curtsy to the queen in particular is a political sign of subjugation, being a subject. Americans haven't had to do it for hundreds of years, all of us. It was the point of the revolution. I almost wish she had just said that, it would have made more sense.

Oh, and it would be just as gross if she were making fun of bowing in Japan. Gross.

 

[2Lunds]

Interesting. I read the curtsey thing as her poking fun at HERSELF. As in, her only frame of reference was Medieval Times so she went WAAAY over the top with the curtsy the first time. Also, not sure why Harry couldn't have given her a quick demo

 

[Karin1984]

She has the same legal relationship to the queen as Michelle or Melania, which is nothing. Meghan wasn't (and still isnt) a subject.

I could make a better argument for cultural practice, like bowing in Japan. Everybody does it, just do it to fit in. You'd do it to any older family member or formal situation or whatever. But curtsy to the queen in particular is a political sign of subjugation, being a subject. Americans haven't had to do it for hundreds of years, all of us. It was the point of the revolution.

Yes, legally, but in reality she was presented to the Queen as Harry's girlfriend and possible future wife and British princess. She wasn't an average American meeting the queen. She was going to be a British subject, she was studying for her immigration tests. The original (official) plan was to live in the UK for the rest of her life.
If she had said back then in the car to Harry: "No way I am going to curtsy, I am an American."
Either Harry had not introduced her, or she would be behind 0-1 from the first meeting.
It's not about if she had to do it as an American citizen, but if she had to do it as Harry's girlfriend and future wife/princess.

Participating in traditions of your new family shows that you want to be part of the new family. Meghan wanted to be part of the royal family or at least she wanted to be liked by her boyfriend's grandmother.

Interesting. I read the curtsey thing as her poking fun at HERSELF. As in, her only frame of reference was Medieval Times so she went WAAAY over the top with the curtsy the first time. Also, not sure why Harry couldn't have given her a quick demo

Apparently Harry also told her that he didn't know anything about the royal girl stuff, like style and outfits etc. He might not know how to properly curtsy.
In another interview they also refer to Fergie being the one who taught her to curtsy right before meeting the queen. So Fergie meeting them outside when their car arrived is probably true. And as she was there, she was the better example.
I assume that she was exaggerating in the interview with bowing like Alice. She only probably went deeper than needed, but with her back straight and her chin to her chest.

 

[2Lunds]

Yes, legally, but in reality she was presented to the Queen as Harry's girlfriend and possible future wife and British princess. She wasn't an average American meeting the queen. She was going to be a British subject, she was studying for her immigration tests. The original (official) plan was to live in the UK for the rest of her life.
If she had said back then in the car to Harry: "No way I am going to curtsy, I am an American."
Either Harry had not introduced her, or she would be behind 0-1 from the first meeting.
It's not about if she had to do it as an American citizen, but if she had to do it as Harry's girlfriend and future wife/princess.

Participating in traditions of your new family shows that you want to be part of the new family. Meghan wanted to be part of the royal family or at least she wanted to be liked by her boyfriend's grandmother.


Apparently Harry also told her that he didn't know anything about the royal girl stuff, like style and outfits etc. He might not know how to properly curtsy.
In another interview they also refer to Fergie being the one who taught her to curtsy right before meeting the queen. So Fergie meeting them outside when their car arrived is probably true. And as she was there, she was the better example.
I assume that she was exaggerating in the interview with bowing like Alice. She only probably went deeper than needed, but with her back straight and her chin to her chest.

He may not know about style, but he must have seen hundreds of women curtsey over his lifetime.

 

[SandyinMonterey]

For a couple who wanted to avoid the limelight - they sure have an odd way of doing it

Agree. I was thinking the same thing. He (and Meghan) seem to be doing many of the things that he publicly criticized.

 

[BayouQueen]

Aren’t they cool, smart, savvy, beautiful and hip, and everyone else is an unenlightened fool?

 

[barkley]

i don't plan to watch it (did not watch their prior interviews) in large part b/c based on their words and actions i find them inauthentic and hypocritical. that said, from what i have observed since their relationship became public and has now transitioned into it's current state i have repeatedly felt like meghan had a very delusional idea of what her role in the monarchy/royal family/world stage would look like/entail.

i think meghan saw the princess diana mystique and believed she was the person who would logically step into her shoes. i think as it became obvious she was not destined for that she has looked to other historical royal, royal adjacent or politically powerful adjacent female figures to emulate and try to take bits and pieces on to revise her past and present narrative. there are obvious elements of the wallis simpson greater love for a woman vs. the monarchy legacy (i don't think she researched that too well though b/c the public and private ostracizing of wallis and edward post abdication isn't what the made for tv movies focus on and a far cry from what she seems to desire). i also see her emulating princess grace-wanting to be the royal who gave up hollywood to become a cherished patron of the arts and humanitarian (another miss-grace WAS a respected academy award winning actress who DID give up allot while meghan isn't even listed as a cast member on the 'suits' rotton tomato page/grace did much of her patronage and philanthropy anonymously vs. for public attention and accolades). more recently i'm wondering if the months of covid isolation had meghan watching and rewatching reruns of 'evita' because she's sure pushing the 'i came from poverty, i have been/am (was not? kind of waffles on this depending on branding she's seeking) discriminated against, one of the people-harry is a supporter of the people/we are YOU NOT THEM/ THEM IS BAD....' speak.


i agree with the post above that meghan is perhaps afflicted with a narcissistic disorder.


finally (and i only mention this b/c i watch all the 90 day fiancee junk)....when is something honest going to be put out about harry's legal status in the u.s. it stinks to high heaven about privilege and u.s. federal law violations if he was able to come here on a whim without going through all the legal hoops others do with valid spousal visa applications. he is also working here despite saying he doesn't want to pursue citizenship/a green card. the only option then? it's speculated to be The O-1 non immigrant visa which is for 'the individual who possesses extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business, or athletics, or who has a demonstrated record of extraordinary achievement in the motion picture or television industry and has been recognized nationally or internationally for those'. not criteria i think anyone would say he meets.

 

[Karin1984]

A spokesman for the couple told the New York Times that Megxit was never about privacy.
'Their statement announcing their decision to step back mentions nothing of privacy and reiterates their desire to continue their roles and public duties. Any suggestion otherwise speaks to a key point of this series. They are choosing to share their story, on their terms, and yet the tabloid media has created an entirely untrue narrative that permeates press coverage and public opinion. The facts are right in front of them'.

Could be me, but it's a bit late after 2 years and countless lawsuits to start denying this.
(And it sorta contradicts Harry's earlier statements that he hopes this departure would give them a quieter life)

 

[lisaviolet]

This is where you all are going to have to either explain it to me like I’m five and/or excuse me for being a dumb American… What is disrespectful (to anybody, let alone the queen) about reenacting a curtsy while retelling a story? Bear in mind, I only watched that scene once and I didn’t sit there and analyze every detail, but that part got a light chuckle from me and it didn’t come across as disrespectful in any way. It struck me as Meghan poking fun at herself more than anything as she described what was a fish-out-of-water moment for her.

Funnily, I felt like I could relate to it on some level because I was once in a situation where a child in Japan, only about 4 or 5 years old, curtsied to me to express gratitude for something I had done. It took my brain a second to process what was happening, then my next thought was “Wait, people really do this?” followed by a minor internal freak out as I wondered if I was supposed to do something in return. It was so awkward! It left me a bit stunned and I later had to ask my husband if I handled it okay.

I’ve retold that story to friends and family before and, yes, I’ve included a reenactment of how the girl abruptly stiffened and clicked her heels together before kneeling into the curtsy, and guess what? I meant absolutely no disrespect to that sweet child. The whole thing is, in my mind, just a funny story about that time I was caught off guard by a curtsy and curtsy protocols. Because really, how many Americans have ever been in the position to give or receive a curtsy and it not be a joke or a part of a child’s game?

I saw this scene as lighthearted and mildly amusing. That others (British media, angry internet commenters in general) see it as some deep disrespect thrown at the Queen leaves me wondering if some people are just looking for things to be offended by.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...sex-fascinated-Royals-says-childhood-pal.html

Shortly before Meghan and Prince Harry's wedding in 2018, Ninaki Priddy, the duchess' childhood best friend and maid of honour at her first wedding to Trevor Engelson, told the Daily Mail: '[Meghan] was always fascinated by the royal family. She wants to be Princess Diana 2.0.'

A picture of a 15-year-old Meghan posing in front of Buckingham Palace, with friend Ninaki, during a European trip in 1996, previously emerged before the duchess' big day.

Speaking in 2018, Ninaki, whose friendship with Meghan ended before the duchess began seeing Prince Harry, said: 'I know the royal family was something she found fascinating.

Let’s also not forget that Meghan also has a bachelor’s degree from Northwestern University in Theater and International Relations!

I.jiust want to be clear that although I referenced that scene, I was not talking about her re-enactment with any purpose. That was just a lighthearted scene although Harry's face was interesting. No one but the British would be able to explain the seriousness surrounding it, after the fact. i certainly don't understand it, even coming from a Commonwealth country.

I was talking about Harry's face when Meghan stated she had no clue that she would ever have to curtsy.

These constant I had no clue at all comments on so many rather simple facets, are just difficult to fathom. That's all. In all areas, even imaging they never had conversations about it all, at some point..

 

[lisaviolet]

I agree with the poster about both sides of the couple & friends. What dedicated and trustworthy friends, all this time. That part was lovely.

As was any moment with Doria. Her mother has a zen about her mannerisms & thoughts Straightforward and calmly fair and frank with whatever is thrown at her, then & now.