Harry and Meghan Netflix documentary

[HopperFan]

I saw an interesting quote "Princess Margaret walked so Prince Harry could run."

Margaret was also a "spare" and was also much different from her sister. Margaret lost her father as a young lady (22), just like her sister. Princess Margaret didn't have an easy life and was the focus of the press most her life. Guess what? She supported her sister, they were very close with direct phone lines and even if a bit rebellious she remained loyal. Perhaps H could learn something from someone who was very much like him, except in how they handled their "spare-ness". Perhaps he could see barriers she broke so that the grandchildren (other than William) could live a bit more independent while still supporting and/or working for the monarchy. Perhaps he could see that he's not special, that others have carried burdens.

Thank you for pointing this out. He makes it sound as if there are only two grandchildren to the queen, when in fact there are many. The others have non-royal careers or view the "firm" and its responsibilities as their career. He could have opted to follow their footsteps when opting to step away. Yes it may have taken a bit of work on his part, but it could have been done.

I believe I read somewhere that William being there ASAP was due to the line of succession and things that needed to be handled immediately.

Harry's arrival would fall in line with the other grandchildren as far as importance and he did get there the day of, before others. Beatrice, Eugenie and Zara arrived the next day ~ are they complaining that they were not notified so they could be there when she passed, nope.

 

[Marrila]

I always totally respect you insights. Although I believe H&M bring out the worst in each other. I also believe she enables his behavior in an attempt to exert control over Harry. I might be more forgiving if they were two "kids" but they we're both mid 30ish adults when they married. Of course just my thoughts.

It's amazing to me how much energy they regularly spend in the most negative ways.
They have the money to step back, enjoy watching the kids grow, dabble in a few hobbies and generally enjoy life.
They chose to quit the UK and adopt the US as their home. Maybe it's time to settle in and start letting go of their long grievance list.

 

[cabanafrau]

I always totally respect you insights. Although I believe H&M bring out the worst in each other. I also believe she enables his behavior in an attempt to exert control over Harry. I might be more forgiving if they were two "kids" but they we're both mid 30ish adults when they married. Of course just my thoughts.

"Two crazy kids" was simply a figure of speech. I do understand their ages.

In regard to Meghan I think it must always be done with the lens of not knowing what we don't know. A lot of Harry's factual biographical details are known by virtue of the fact that he and his family have been in the public eye long before he was even born. That's not to say we can absolutely know everything about him, not by a longshot. It simply points out that there isn't the sympathetic narrative out there for Meghan with a public interested in her when she was also a cherubic tot; nor do we have a contemporaneous account of difficulties she faced in her life the way we do with Harry frozen in time, marching behind that coffin.

Instead her narrative is unknown, automatically regarded as suspect because it is not contemporaneous and the provenance of details inevitably will be disputed -- and most importantly, will always fall before the altar of Harry's tragic loss. How much would Harry's outcome have improved if he had found a purpose to his life in reaching out to children who've lost their parents to the anguishing cruelties of cancer or the like? I suspect it might have done him a world of good and maybe healed some of what ails him while giving him an ability to have genuine empathy for others and recognize their pain and trauma -- without cloaking himself in the ultimate victim robes and standing two steps above everyone else on the pain ladder. He mouths empty words about caring for others, while always managing to have the pity parade end at his doorstep every time. Even when it comes to his "magical" wife, her narrative always suffers in comparison to his great pain and tragedy, because we are never to forget his suffering.

I don't know enough about her real situation, real intentions and real actions to be able to say if she's a calculating, controlling, manipulative maniac or a mixed up, wounded, well meaning and intelligent yet misguided person who's in way over her head. She could be desperately in love with her dream man and advising him with an eye towards protecting herself, getting ahead and making sure he stays by her side. She could be deeply in love with someone she sees as hurting just like her and possibly believes things he says about his family and what she reads in the press and thinks they are like the Markle branches of her tree and out to damage Harry and herself. She could be giving him terrible counsel with good intentions. We don't know what we don't know.

 

[Karin1984]

I don't know enough about her real situation, real intentions and real actions to be able to say if she's a calculating, controlling, manipulative maniac or a mixed up, wounded, well meaning and intelligent yet misguided person who's in way over her head. She could be desperately in love with her dream man and advising him with an eye towards protecting herself, getting ahead and making sure he stays by her side. She could be deeply in love with someone she sees as hurting just like her and possibly believes things he says about his family and what she reads in the press and thinks they are like the Markle branches of her tree and out to damage Harry and herself. She could be giving him terrible counsel with good intentions. We don't know what we don't know.

It depends on which biography you read. If you read Harry's or Omid Scobie you will think Meghan is an angel send down from the Heavens. If you read Lady Campbell or Tom Bower's biographies, you will think she is the devil incarnated. On both ends of the spectrum they have found people to speak positive or negative about her.

The truth will be somewhere in between.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Why? I thought we were discussing details about Harry’s examples in his book. Granted, this one’s distasteful to some. But then again, some other aspects of Harry’s claims discussed here have been, as well. I suggest simply skipping over the parts you don’t want to see. Hunting is a large part of life in the RF.

Yes it is significant to the RF and in the book. I'm just squeamish. Good point. I will skip over. No criticism intended of you.

 

[cabanafrau]

There actually was a lot of information published about Meghan back when it first became evident that she and Harry were a serious couple. (I know because I read a lot of it. ) It’s funny because some of the information about her background seems to have been ”suppressed” (? by pressure from the palace - works both ways) such as why her mother was missing from her life for several years, leaving her father to raise her alone, and about her first marriage (as opposed to her second marriage, to Trevor Engelson, that was more well known), that was annulled, etc. Search today and you can’t find much about those stories anymore.

Back to her style of dress brought up a page or two back. I don’t think that Meghan was accustomed to wearing clothes that were big for her before she started dating Harry, based on pictures I’ve seen of her prior to that. I’m thinking that she was told she needed to dress more conservatively once they became a couple. This had been an issue for Diana, as well.

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/beauty/fashion/g20720972/meghan-markle-scandalous-fashion/?slide=31

View attachment 731261

For my money we have to keep in mind that hindsight is 20/20, so the fact that a great deal of the coverage of Harry's past was contemporaneous with the events while those about Meghan's early life are not must be considered. Not the least of the considerations is the spin machines involved -- and who's at the controls and why?

I don't believe for a moment that the Royal Family has the power, the savvy or the nerve to control the British press, the British aristocracy or even much of the palace staff to the extent so many seem convinced is happening. The House of Windsor's stock in trade has long been a steely sense of duty, never strong and decisive leadership influenced by great intelligence.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

...

You're right, nothing is going to satisfy or satiate Harry at this point. If Parliament were to conjure up a magical referendum that installed the Spare to the throne tomorrow and all the press in all the land declared endless celebration and joy he would not find happiness or satisfaction. The root of his problem lies between his own ears and he is the only one with the power to do something about it. He's still young enough to get help and go on and live a happy and healthy life. I hope he does that sooner rather than later, especially as a father of two young children.

IF there is a mental health disorder here that people have been discussing, it is not something that "gets better" or can be cured. There is no medicine for it. If such a person wants therapy, they might be able to learn things that help them function in the world. Just talk therapy. But if there is such a personality disorder here, the prognosis for "getting help and going on to live a happy and health life" is just not happening. Some improvements maybe, but unlikely to that level.

 

[TLSnell1981]

There actually was a lot of information published about Meghan back when it first became evident that she and Harry were a serious couple. (I know because I read a lot of it. ) It’s funny because some of the information about her background seems to have been ”suppressed” (? by pressure from the palace - works both ways) such as why her mother was missing from her life for several years, leaving her father to raise her alone, and about her first marriage (as opposed to her second marriage, to Trevor Engelson, that was more well known), that was annulled, etc. Search today and you can’t find much about those stories anymore.

Back to her style of dress brought up a page or two back. I don’t think that Meghan was accustomed to wearing clothes that were big for her before she started dating Harry, based on pictures I’ve seen of her prior to that. I’m thinking that she was told she needed to dress more conservatively once they became a couple. This had been an issue for Diana, as well.

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/beauty/fashion/g20720972/meghan-markle-scandalous-fashion/?slide=31

View attachment 731261

Thanks for this info. I knew I remembered she had been married twice before Harry. The first annulled due at the insistence of the groom's family. They nailed her a a gold digger from day one. The second she dropped like a hot potato once she'd latched onto Harry.

 

[cabanafrau]

IF there is a mental health disorder here that people have been discussing, it is not something that "gets better" or can be cured. There is no medicine for it. If such a person wants therapy, they might be able to learn things that help them function in the world. Just talk therapy. But if there is such a personality disorder here, the prognosis for "getting help and going on to live a happy and health life" is just not happening. Some improvements maybe, but unlikely to that level.

Many chronic psychological conditions are not curable, simply treatable. In the same way an addict or an alcoholic is still a recovering addict or alcoholic for the rest of their life someone with certain psychological disorders achieves the best outcome through consistently treating their condition. He is the only one with the power to push that boulder up the mountain.

 

[Karin1984]

Whatever you think of Meghan, Kate apparently doesn't have the same sense of humour.
(Yes, there are still details coming out about the details of the book, we are not done yet!)

Meghan and Kate's tension at Trooping the Colour: Harry reveals how his wife's joke to her sister-in-law fell flat.​

In his explosive memoir Spare, which went on sale yesterday, Prince Harry spoke of one of his first public appearances with his wife at the celebration of the Queen's official birthday in 2018.

But Harry describes how the bright atmosphere took a turn when Kate asked Meghan what she thought of the occasion and the new royal family member jokingly responded with 'colourful'.

Speaking about the ensuing uneasiness, the duke writes that 'a yawning silence threatened to swallow us all whole'.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Whatever you think of Meghan, Kate apparently doesn't have the same sense of humour.
(Yes, there are still details coming out about the details of the book, we are not done yet!)

Meghan and Kate's tension at Trooping the Colour: Harry reveals how his wife's joke to her sister-in-law fell flat.​

In his explosive memoir Spare, which went on sale yesterday, Prince Harry spoke of one of his first public appearances with his wife at the celebration of the Queen's official birthday in 2018.

But Harry describes how the bright atmosphere took a turn when Kate asked Meghan what she thought of the occasion and the new royal family member jokingly responded with 'colourful'.

Speaking about the ensuing uneasiness, the duke writes that 'a yawning silence threatened to swallow us all whole'.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I'm guessing wrong time and place for the "joke". Markle didn't appear to appreciate the significance of the event. Once again making fun of tradtion.

 

[HopperFan]

Whatever you think of Meghan, Kate apparently doesn't have the same sense of humour.
(Yes, there are still details coming out about the details of the book, we are not done yet!)

Meghan and Kate's tension at Trooping the Colour: Harry reveals how his wife's joke to her sister-in-law fell flat.​

In his explosive memoir Spare, which went on sale yesterday, Prince Harry spoke of one of his first public appearances with his wife at the celebration of the Queen's official birthday in 2018.

But Harry describes how the bright atmosphere took a turn when Kate asked Meghan what she thought of the occasion and the new royal family member jokingly responded with 'colourful'.

Speaking about the ensuing uneasiness, the duke writes that 'a yawning silence threatened to swallow us all whole'.

I suppose I am dense but I don't get the joke in this.

Calling something/someone colourful is a nice way of kinda being insulting (like she might have well said the event was tacky) so I don't get the joke part here. If I were Kate, I too would go silent because there really wasn't a nice response to that. "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" seems to apply to both Meghan and Kate, only Kate took the suggestion.

To impress this on Harry, a joke not gotten with subsequent silence is on no level swallow us whole silence. So that tells me he knew it wasn't funny ~ hence the awkward silence. SO again - why write this in your book? So many things he has written look bad for Meghan, what was his point? What is the endgame?

 

[mamamia2005]

Harry has apparently talked about a Matron at his school in the book:

"Unlike other matrons, Pat wasn't hot. Pat was cold. Pat was small, mousy, frazzled and her hair fell greasily into her always tired eyes. Pat didn't seem to get much joy out of life."

Harry goes on to describe that she did enjoy catching boys being naughty and was "empathy challenged" when dealing with boys' minor cuts. He says Pat had many crosses to bear.

"The biggest being her knees and spine. The latter was crooked, the former chronically stiff. Walking was hard, stairs were torture. She'd descend backwards, glacially. Often we'd stand on the landing below her, doing antic dances, making faces. Do I need to say who did this with the most enthusiasm?"

He doesn't show any remorse but instead excuses it because he did it to make his friends laugh and he says that Pat also laughed if she caught him.
"I loved cracking up my mates but nothing quite did it for me like making the otherwise miserable Pat bust a gut."

Once again, not sure this really needed to be shared with the world.

 

[cabanafrau]

Sounds to me like Meghan felt very fish out of water. (Curiously doesn't sound like someone who's absolutely killing it when it comes to understanding social cues and the significance of the royal event she was attending where she was no doubt outshining everyone else.) Kate may not have known how to take the joke, or to respond, particularly if it happened while they were out in public, on stage as it were. A polite smile and silence in that circumstance is hardly rude.

As for Harry's perspective, Harry isn't to be regarded as a reliable narrator IMO. He's demonstrated to me that he does not have a clear-eyed view of his wife, his family and many other things.

 

[cabanafrau]

Harry has apparently talked about a Matron at his school in the book:

"Unlike other matrons, Pat wasn't hot. Pat was cold. Pat was small, mousy, frazzled and her hair fell greasily into her always tired eyes. Pat didn't seem to get much joy out of life."

Harry goes on to describe that she did enjoy catching boys being naughty and was "empathy challenged" when dealing with boys' minor cuts. He says Pat had many crosses to bear.

"The biggest being her knees and spine. The latter was crooked, the former chronically stiff. Walking was hard, stairs were torture. She'd descend backwards, glacially. Often we'd stand on the landing below her, doing antic dances, making faces. Do I need to say who did this with the most enthusiasm?"

He doesn't show any remorse but instead excuses it because he did it to make his friends laugh and he says that Pat also laughed if she caught him.
"I loved cracking up my mates but nothing quite did it for me like making the otherwise miserable Pat bust a gut."

Once again, not sure this really needed to be shared with the world.

The man legitimately is stone deaf when it comes to another human being outside himself and his wife deserving any expectation whatsoever to being spoken about with a scintilla of consideration.

 

[Karin1984]

Calling something/someone colourful is a nice way of kinda being insulting (like she might have well said the event was tacky) so I don't get the joke part here. If I were Kate, I too would go silent because there really wasn't a nice response to that. "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" seems to apply to both Meghan and Kate, only Kate took the suggestion.

The event is called Trooping the Colour
My guess that was the pun Meghan was going for.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

“Colorful” seems a very underwhelming response for such a spectacular event. Couldn’t Meghan have come up with something more? I would think she was bored, too.

https://www.royal.uk/trooping-colour

 

[Marrila]

Harry has apparently talked about a Matron at his school in the book:

"Unlike other matrons, Pat wasn't hot. Pat was cold. Pat was small, mousy, frazzled and her hair fell greasily into her always tired eyes. Pat didn't seem to get much joy out of life."

Harry goes on to describe that she did enjoy catching boys being naughty and was "empathy challenged" when dealing with boys' minor cuts. He says Pat had many crosses to bear.

"The biggest being her knees and spine. The latter was crooked, the former chronically stiff. Walking was hard, stairs were torture. She'd descend backwards, glacially. Often we'd stand on the landing below her, doing antic dances, making faces. Do I need to say who did this with the most enthusiasm?"

He doesn't show any remorse but instead excuses it because he did it to make his friends laugh and he says that Pat also laughed if she caught him.
"I loved cracking up my mates but nothing quite did it for me like making the otherwise miserable Pat bust a gut."

Once again, not sure this really needed to be shared with the world.

He was repeatedly deliberately cruel to a disabled woman.
And for some reason he doesn't hesitate to share his unthinkable acts in his book.
He doesn't regret it either. His lack of remorse is shocking.

 

[cabanafrau]

He was repeatedly deliberately cruel to a disabled woman.
And for some reason he doesn't hesitate to share his unthinkable acts in his book.
He doesn't regret it either. His lack of remorse is shocking.

As Oprah is wont to say -- when someone tells you who they are, believe them.