Harry and Meghan Netflix documentary

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I have often wondered when the call went out to William, Edward, etc., to get on a plane in the first place. I have wondered if Harry, and his debate regarding Meghan traveling also, held the others back and caused them to miss saying their goodbyes. It’s something I have wondered about since the Queen passed away, but all the talk about Spare has me thinking about it again.

Logically, I would have thought that a call would have gone out as soon as anyone realized her condition was deteriorating, based on the time it would take for the family to get there. Something like when a person is in the hospital and the doctor says you might want to notify the family to come. Sometimes people gather and the person recovers and sometimes they don’t, but in the interest of allowing family to say goodbye, you get the ball rolling. Knowing there were detailed plans in place for everything involved with the Queen’s death, it may not have been as chaotic as we think, and there would have been staff with specific tasks to perform to take some of it off of the family.

I sincerely hope that Harry did not prevent the family from leaving as quickly as they wanted to. I would like to think that Edward and Andrew in particular, who were losing their mother, weren‘t held back by anyone from attempting to get there in time to say goodbye. In all the timelines, they talk about when the PM received various notes. I would like to think the immediate family was notified at or before the PM (even respecting the obligations and requirements in place for the transition of power in the circumstances). On a personal level, I did feel bad for Edward and Andrew that they did not get to say a final goodbye to their mother, if that was something they wanted to do. I was able to choose whether to be present when each of my parents passed, and would not have wanted that choice taken from me.

I doubt we will ever know for sure whether it was possible for the first plane to leave earlier and arrive before the Queen passed. We also won’t know what was said in the calls about how serious her condition was, or how urgent it was to leave quickly. William’s group may have known from the start that they wouldn’t make it in time, and that could be why Harry is upset they left without him. We just don’t know. In a way, it is better if it wasn’t possible to arrive in time, so there aren’t any “what if” thoughts for any of the family. It can be rough in any family when one person prevents another from saying a final goodbye, and the royal family is no different in that respect.
They had an entire plan for the Queen's death called Operation London Bridge. Part of it was Operation Unicorn which took care of all of the details in case she died at Balmoral. So, none of this was last-minute. Who would go, when and how was all part of it I'm sure. However, rules and expectations don't apply to the Markles, right?
 
I'm not sure Harry has evolved emotionally much past the age of 12...when his Mum tragically died. Many accounts state his alcohol and drug use began around 13...it would make sense. He appears to stuck in that trauma ...reinforced by substance abuse. His wife doesn't appear to want a healthy husband. She seems to feed the negativity and insecurities. IMO
 
There is a programme on channel 5 in the U.K. called ‘Ben Fogle: New Lives in the Wild’. Series 17, EP 1 is about a former US snowboarding champion who has chosen to live on about 80 acres of land in the Sierra Nevada. When asked why, he says he wanted privacy. His understanding and my understanding of ‘privacy’ are similar.
 
Let's get beyond the blood sports thing.
Why? I thought we were discussing details about Harry’s examples in his book. Granted, this one’s distasteful to some. But then again, some other aspects of Harry’s claims discussed here have been, as well. I suggest simply skipping over the parts you don’t want to see. Hunting is a large part of life in the RF.
 

I have often wondered when the call went out to William, Edward, etc., to get on a plane in the first place. I have wondered if Harry, and his debate regarding Meghan traveling also, held the others back and caused them to miss saying their goodbyes. It’s something I have wondered about since the Queen passed away, but all the talk about Spare has me thinking about it again.

Logically, I would have thought that a call would have gone out as soon as anyone realized her condition was deteriorating, based on the time it would take for the family to get there. Something like when a person is in the hospital and the doctor says you might want to notify the family to come. Sometimes people gather and the person recovers and sometimes they don’t, but in the interest of allowing family to say goodbye, you get the ball rolling. Knowing there were detailed plans in place for everything involved with the Queen’s death, it may not have been as chaotic as we think, and there would have been staff with specific tasks to perform to take some of it off of the family.

I sincerely hope that Harry did not prevent the family from leaving as quickly as they wanted to. I would like to think that Edward and Andrew in particular, who were losing their mother, weren‘t held back by anyone from attempting to get there in time to say goodbye. In all the timelines, they talk about when the PM received various notes. I would like to think the immediate family was notified at or before the PM (even respecting the obligations and requirements in place for the transition of power in the circumstances). On a personal level, I did feel bad for Edward and Andrew that they did not get to say a final goodbye to their mother, if that was something they wanted to do. I was able to choose whether to be present when each of my parents passed, and would not have wanted that choice taken from me.

I doubt we will ever know for sure whether it was possible for the first plane to leave earlier and arrive before the Queen passed. We also won’t know what was said in the calls about how serious her condition was, or how urgent it was to leave quickly. William’s group may have known from the start that they wouldn’t make it in time, and that could be why Harry is upset they left without him. We just don’t know. In a way, it is better if it wasn’t possible to arrive in time, so there aren’t any “what if” thoughts for any of the family. It can be rough in any family when one person prevents another from saying a final goodbye, and the royal family is no different in that respect.
Is it impossible that Andrew, Edward and Sophie would have been the ones pushing to leave Harry behind in order to avoid any added stress under the circumstances? I myself have been intimately involved in major life events where the likelihood of disruption from an unwell family member is factored into decisions made. On two notable occasions said family member insists a specific family member engineered the decision made. They were completely wrong. They won't even listen to anything said by anyone who was present that doesn't agree with their opinion.
 
They had an entire plan for the Queen's death called Operation London Bridge. Part of it was Operation Unicorn which took care of all of the details in case she died at Balmoral. So, none of this was last-minute. Who would go, when and how was all part of it I'm sure. However, rules and expectations don't apply to the Markles, right?
I agree with you that they had a detailed plan, including the order people would be notified and who would be asked to travel to Balmoral, which is why the day may have been less chaotic than expected. There were only two variables which could not be known in advance that threw a wrench in the plans. One is how quickly the Queen passed once it was determined her health was deteriorating, which affects the amount of time family would have to get there to say goodbye. The other is where those family members might be when they were notified and the travel time required to get them to Balmoral. They could have been spread out over the length and breadth of the UK and been forced to travel separately. It appears that they were fairly close together, which would facilitate getting to one plane and flying together. If Charles and Anne had not already been in Scotland, they may not have arrived in time either.

What we don’t know is whether Harry was excluded from the first plane deliberately, or if the first plane was delayed by his request to bring Meghan, or even if he got mad and refused to fly with the others because he couldn’t bring Meghan. His side at this point is going to be whatever makes him the victim of the Firm, which may or may not be close to the truth. Really, although I have wondered about the timing, it’s really something private for the BRF that I don’t need to know.
 
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I agree with you that they had a detailed plan, including the order people would be notified and who would be asked to travel to Balmoral, which is why the day may have been less chaotic than expected. There were only two variables which could not be known in advance that threw a wrench in the plans. One is how quickly the Queen passed once it was determined her health was deteriorating, which affects the amount of time family would have to get there to say goodbye. The other is where those family members might be when they were notified and the travel time required to get them to Balmoral. They could have been spread out over the length and breadth of the UK and been forced to travel separately. It appears that they were fairly close together, which would facilitate getting to one plane and flying together. If Charles and Anne had not already been in Scotland, they may not have arrived in time either.

What we don’t know is whether Harry was excluded from the first plane deliberately, or if the first plane was delayed by his request to bring Meghan, or even if he got mad and refused to fly with the others because he couldn’t bring Meghan. His side at this point is going to be whatever makes him the victim of the Firm, which may or may not be close to the truth. Really, although I have wondered about the timing, it’s really something private for the BRF that I don’t need to know.
It was reported there was a 69 minute delay from the original departure plan. Allegedly they were waiting for Harry (who is said to have been "having a row" with the wife). Some report that the Prince of Wales and Harry never flew together. I would have thought this had changed after the birth of Prince William's children. So who knows?

The squabble tainted the Queen's last hours on this earth and left many hard feelings. This much we do know.
 
I agree with you that they had a detailed plan, including the order people would be notified and who would be asked to travel to Balmoral, which is why the day may have been less chaotic than expected. There were only two variables which could not be known in advance that threw a wrench in the plans. One is how quickly the Queen passed once it was determined her health was deteriorating, which affects the amount of time family would have to get there to say goodbye. The other is where those family members might be when they were notified and the travel time required to get them to Balmoral. They could have been spread out over the length and breadth of the UK and been forced to travel separately. It appears that they were fairly close together, which would facilitate getting to one plane and flying together. If Charles and Anne had not already been in Scotland, they may not have arrived in time either.

What we don’t know is whether Harry was excluded from the first plane deliberately, or if the first plane was delayed by his request to bring Meghan, or even if he got mad and refused to fly with the others because he couldn’t bring Meghan. His side at this point is going to be whatever makes him the victim of the Firm, which may or may not be close to the truth. Really, although I have wondered about the timing, it’s really something private for the BRF that I don’t need to know.
I believe that all of the people on William’s plane were in the Windsor area (not sure what it’s called) but that also included Harry (who happened to be in the UK on business). His delay in joining them was likely caused by his being completely irate and arguing with his father about Meghan going, so the others left. I can’t blame them. Time was of the essence. I believe there was a medical staff with the Queen. Something happened that was relatively sudden.

I’ve posted this twice already in this thread. It has a lot of details about the travel arrangements on that day.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/queen-died-charles-anne-with-her-balmoral-b1024527.html

The Jenna Bush Hagar perspective on Charles getting the call that his mother was ill:

https://www.newsweek.com/jenna-bush...es-learned-queen-elizabeth-ill-health-1742458
 
I'm not sure Harry has evolved emotionally much past the age of 12...when his Mum tragically died. Many accounts state his alcohol and drug use began around 13...it would make sense. He appears to stuck in that trauma ...reinforced by substance abuse. His wife doesn't appear to want a healthy husband. She seems to feed the negativity and insecurities. IMO
I am quite sure that is largely part of his problems. That day his world stopped and basically only started turning again during his days in the army (having a purpose something bigger than himself), stopped again when his location in Afghanistan got leaked. And then started again when he met Meghan. He needed a mother figure, someone who he could project the image of his mother on.

And I think Meghan gets energy from being adored and was more than willing to take on this role.
 
I'm not sure Harry has evolved emotionally much past the age of 12...when his Mum tragically died. Many accounts state his alcohol and drug use began around 13...it would make sense. He appears to stuck in that trauma ...reinforced by substance abuse. His wife doesn't appear to want a healthy husband. She seems to feed the negativity and insecurities. IMO
I don't know that there's enough public information about Meghan's life to have much understanding of her. Looking at the situation with her father, the behavior of a wide swath of the Markle branches of her family tree, the fact she seemed to have no family beyond her mother present at the wedding and the fact her parents were divorced kind of lays out some very good likelihood her home life had some serious challenges. For me that leaves some room to acknowledge that she might have some struggles and in fact might not have the tools to respond to the negativity and the insecurities in a healthy way. Her responses might in fact fuel the negativity and insecurities without any intention on her part. She can only do what she knows.

These two crazy kids might in fact truly love each other and have been drawn together by recognizing aspects in each other where they struggle. It can be great if those involved have insight into their situation and develop a common goal of a better life together. Hopefully they get to that place.

All the publicity out of this book has done is prove to me that Harry is a lost soul with zero insight. I truly did not expect the naked envy and hatred he has for his brother, not at all. I think that is something that has largely bloomed up over the past five years and is probably shocking and confusing to the family. Unfortunately that won't help them to warm to Meghan or build any type of relationship with her. Any spark of hope I have of this situation righting itself in any way and the ship changing course at all 100-percent rests on Meghan at this point. If Meghan ever recognizes that her statement about people liking her not needing to hate Kate and vice versa needs to be addressed first and foremost in her own home maybe there can be progress. If Meghan were to reach the point of trying to reel things back to calmer waters I wonder if it would even be possible to get the toothpaste back in the tube with Harry's family? In their shoes I can see it being very difficult to ever trust.
 
YES that too. At times it is so strange hearing him talk, it is like in his mind he has isolated his world to just him and his mother, as if she's still here. Then there is the world with Meghan & kids. And then there is the circle with his Dad & brother where it's them against him. There is the circle with the Queen and no one else. And then the entire rest of the family just doesn't exist. I mean it's fine if they are not close. But he speaks as if he was the only one important to the Queen and the only one who would miss her ... same as excluding William from the grief and trauma they went through. But the problem for him is if he were to acknowledge all of their experiences and pain then his behavior is the unhealthy one. He needs to be the only one impacted from "life". He can't acknowledge the others, it won't work with the narrative.

it appears harry highly compartmentalizes his relationships, experiences, thoughts and memories. by mentally separating his conflicting thoughts, emotions and experiences he is able to avoid or ignore any contradictions. having a partner who appears to support and encourage his ignoring of obvious inaccuracies and contradictions only further affirms for him that his memories/perspectives of events are the only and true and accurate realities. any divergence based on someone else's memory or even stone cold irrefutable evidence will likely not logically register with him and be strictly viewed on his part as a personal attack on his honesty.
 
Edit: Hoping everyone can be level headed in their responses here.
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I believe that all of the people on William’s plane were in the Windsor area (not sure what it’s called) but that also included Harry (who happened to be in the UK on business). His delay in joining them was likely caused by his being completely irate and arguing with his father about Meghan going, so the others left. I can’t blame them. Time was of the essence. I believe there was a medical staff with the Queen. Something happened that was relatively sudden.

I’ve posted this twice already in this thread. It has a lot of details about the travel arrangements on that day.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/queen-died-charles-anne-with-her-balmoral-b1024527.html

The Jenna Bush Hagar perspective on Charles getting the call that his mother was ill:

https://www.newsweek.com/jenna-bush...es-learned-queen-elizabeth-ill-health-1742458
It's likely she crashed. I'm guessing they were able to stabilize her but had no idea for how long. (supposition on my part but plausible) I read a statement regarding Charles "letting his mother go" and the turmoil he experienced over this decision.
 
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Just a PS ~ Harry always seem to talk as if he and William are the only grandchildren of the Queen. There were some that came before them and some that came after them. There are some that have been quite successful in having a private life with private sector jobs AND also handling some royal duties. Some have been fulltime royals or have full time private sector careers. Harry could have been like them. He is one of eight grandchildren. Once William had three children of his own securing the line of succession, Harry was free to pursue a life similar to his adult cousins. His youngest cousins have been the most proper respectful of the monarchy kids, so impressed by them (Queen loved their mother). He is no more special than his other cousins and he has lots to learn from them.
Thank you for pointing this out. He makes it sound as if there are only two grandchildren to the queen, when in fact there are many. The others have non-royal careers or view the "firm" and its responsibilities as their career. He could have opted to follow their footsteps when opting to step away. Yes it may have taken a bit of work on his part, but it could have been done.
 
I don't know that there's enough public information about Meghan's life to have much understanding of her. Looking at the situation with her father, the behavior of a wide swath of the Markle branches of her family tree, the fact she seemed to have no family beyond her mother present at the wedding and the fact her parents were divorced kind of lays out some very good likelihood her home life had some serious challenges. For me that leaves some room to acknowledge that she might have some struggles and in fact might not have the tools to respond to the negativity and the insecurities in a healthy way. Her responses might in fact fuel the negativity and insecurities without any intention on her part. She can only do what she knows.

These two crazy kids might in fact truly love each other and have been drawn together by recognizing aspects in each other where they struggle. It can be great if those involved have insight into their situation and develop a common goal of a better life together. Hopefully they get to that place.

All the publicity out of this book has done is prove to me that Harry is a lost soul with zero insight. I truly did not expect the naked envy and hatred he has for his brother, not at all. I think that is something that has largely bloomed up over the past five years and is probably shocking and confusing to the family. Unfortunately that won't help them to warm to Meghan or build any type of relationship with her. Any spark of hope I have of this situation righting itself in any way and the ship changing course at all 100-percent rests on Meghan at this point. If Meghan ever recognizes that her statement about people liking her not needing to hate Kate and vice versa needs to be addressed first and foremost in her own home maybe there can be progress. If Meghan were to reach the point of trying to reel things back to calmer waters I wonder if it would even be possible to get the toothpaste back in the tube with Harry's family? In their shoes I can see it being very difficult to ever trust.
I always totally respect you insights. Although I believe H&M bring out the worst in each other. I also believe she enables his behavior in an attempt to exert control over Harry. I might be more forgiving if they were two "kids" but they we're both mid 30ish adults when they married. Of course just my thoughts.
 
I don't know that there's enough public information about Meghan's life to have much understanding of her. Looking at the situation with her father, the behavior of a wide swath of the Markle branches of her family tree, the fact she seemed to have no family beyond her mother present at the wedding and the fact her parents were divorced kind of lays out some very good likelihood her home life had some serious challenges. For me that leaves some room to acknowledge that she might have some struggles and in fact might not have the tools to respond to the negativity and the insecurities in a healthy way. Her responses might in fact fuel the negativity and insecurities without any intention on her part. She can only do what she knows.

These two crazy kids might in fact truly love each other and have been drawn together by recognizing aspects in each other where they struggle. It can be great if those involved have insight into their situation and develop a common goal of a better life together. Hopefully they get to that place.

All the publicity out of this book has done is prove to me that Harry is a lost soul with zero insight. I truly did not expect the naked envy and hatred he has for his brother, not at all. I think that is something that has largely bloomed up over the past five years and is probably shocking and confusing to the family. Unfortunately that won't help them to warm to Meghan or build any type of relationship with her. Any spark of hope I have of this situation righting itself in any way and the ship changing course at all 100-percent rests on Meghan at this point. If Meghan ever recognizes that her statement about people liking her not needing to hate Kate and vice versa needs to be addressed first and foremost in her own home maybe there can be progress. If Meghan were to reach the point of trying to reel things back to calmer waters I wonder if it would even be possible to get the toothpaste back in the tube with Harry's family? In their shoes I can see it being very difficult to ever trust.
I agree, I think that at this point, there is no going back for him. And I think that he is OK with that. I know that he comes off to a lot of people as being a spoiled brat, and in some ways he is. But we all deal with our life tragedies differently. If he wasn't who he was, then I think that people would be more sympathetic toward him. The fact that he is rich is a huge factor in people's opinion about him. And again, none of us truly knows what happens behind the scenes. We don't know what others have said to him or how he was treated. Same with Meghan, no one knows what her relationship with her family was like. And as you said, only her mother being at her wedding speaks to there being a divide.
 
I don't know that there's enough public information about Meghan's life to have much understanding of her. Looking at the situation with her father, the behavior of a wide swath of the Markle branches of her family tree, the fact she seemed to have no family beyond her mother present at the wedding and the fact her parents were divorced kind of lays out some very good likelihood her home life had some serious challenges. For me that leaves some room to acknowledge that she might have some struggles and in fact might not have the tools to respond to the negativity and the insecurities in a healthy way. Her responses might in fact fuel the negativity and insecurities without any intention on her part. She can only do what she knows.

These two crazy kids might in fact truly love each other and have been drawn together by recognizing aspects in each other where they struggle. It can be great if those involved have insight into their situation and develop a common goal of a better life together. Hopefully they get to that place.

All the publicity out of this book has done is prove to me that Harry is a lost soul with zero insight. I truly did not expect the naked envy and hatred he has for his brother, not at all. I think that is something that has largely bloomed up over the past five years and is probably shocking and confusing to the family. Unfortunately that won't help them to warm to Meghan or build any type of relationship with her. Any spark of hope I have of this situation righting itself in any way and the ship changing course at all 100-percent rests on Meghan at this point. If Meghan ever recognizes that her statement about people liking her not needing to hate Kate and vice versa needs to be addressed first and foremost in her own home maybe there can be progress. If Meghan were to reach the point of trying to reel things back to calmer waters I wonder if it would even be possible to get the toothpaste back in the tube with Harry's family? In their shoes I can see it being very difficult to ever trust.
There actually was a lot of information published about Meghan back when it first became evident that she and Harry were a serious couple. (I know because I read a lot of it. :teeth: ) It’s funny because some of the information about her background seems to have been ”suppressed” (? by pressure from the palace - works both ways) such as why her mother was missing from her life for several years, leaving her father to raise her alone, and about her first marriage (as opposed to her second marriage, to Trevor Engelson, that was more well known), that was annulled, etc. Search today and you can’t find much about those stories anymore.

Back to her style of dress brought up a page or two back. I don’t think that Meghan was accustomed to wearing clothes that were big for her before she started dating Harry, based on pictures I’ve seen of her prior to that. I’m thinking that she was told she needed to dress more conservatively once they became a couple. This had been an issue for Diana, as well.

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/beauty/fashion/g20720972/meghan-markle-scandalous-fashion/?slide=31

1673462028115.jpeg
 
In one of the interviews Harry praises the Dutch and Norwegian kings for taking the right steps to apologize for the part their countries played in the slave trade and modernizing the monarchy. Leading by example

His father has done this already as well. In the speech Charles gave when the president of South Africa visited the UK recently, he basically said the same thing my king in the Netherlands said (he didn't apologize himself, but referenced it in his Christmas speech, so Harry got that fact slightly wrong) about acknowledging the past no matter how hurtful.

It's a pity Harry doesn't see that his father is taking steps to move ahead to a modern monarchy as well.
 
I want to address the posters who wonder why anyone is so interested in these two, or who think there is a level of hate involved.
Speaking only for myself, while I do like "Royal Watching," as they wear pretty clothes and add some color to life, there is more than that. I am interested in people. I like reading true crime stuff of the Ann Rule variety and I love authors, like Charles Dickens or Somerset Maugham, who create really interesting characters. People are interesting. No hate from me at all.
 
I want to address the posters who wonder why anyone is so interested in these two, or who think there is a level of hate involved.
Speaking only for myself, while I do like "Royal Watching," as they wear pretty clothes and add some color to life, there is more than that. I am interested in people. I like reading true crime stuff of the Ann Rule variety and I love authors, like Charles Dickens or Somerset Maugham, who create really interesting characters. People are interesting. No hate from me at all.
For me it's popcorn. It's like watching a train wreck, and everytime you think it can't get worse, H&M prove... Sure it can get worse!

I am very willing to admit: These two fascinate me, mainly because their behaviour so many times doesn't make sense to me.
 
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