Happy Holidays, Holiday tree no problem but come on...

[WeirdEyes]

The whole thing just makes me tired....

There are so many truly important issues in this country that need to be dealt with and every year - at this time of year - this kind of stuff comes to the forefront.. And it gets worse every single year.. The "PC" stuff is so far over the top it's ridiculous.. I don't know what the "answer" is, but I do know that energy is wasted that could be better applied to truly important issues..

C.Ann ~ I couldn't have said it better myself! So very sad.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

"wow that was hard---even a search of "secular holiday songs" yielded songs with the word Christmas in the title and Santa. So I'm not sure the definition of secular anymore. If as long as it doesn't mention Jesus--then there are lots of them."

That's interesting. I guess the next question is what defines secular. I think any song with "Christmas" or "Santa" in it is a "Christmas song" for the Christian celebrants. But that may be because of my Jewish background. So, for example, if a school holiday program had the following songs, I'd see it clearly as mostly Christian. But maybe other would not?

Frosty (Christian)
Jingle Bells (Christian)
Winter Wonderland (Christian)
Rudolf the Reindeer (Christian)
Deck the Halls (Christian)
O Hannukkah (Jewish)
Dreidel Song (Jewish)

The first 3 aren't Christian at all--Rudolph is about secular Christmas (no flying reindeer that I know of in the story of Christmas)--and the others I am not sure.


"All I want for Christmas" by Mariah Carey is a christmas song--but not a "christian" song. As the "you" she's singing of isn't Jesus.

It isn't just Christians who celebrate Christmas. Many non-Christians just like the pretty lights and getting presents, but they don't mention Jesus at all. A friend of mine who is Christian does celebrate Hannukah and that doesn't make her Jewish in doing so. She does it b/c Jesus was Jewish so they honor and study that element as part of their faith.

Singing about Rudolph and Frosty--does not a Christian song make. When those get eliminated from schools--that is when the boundaries have been crossed and that is when it becomes censorship.

 

[AnaheimGirl]

"wow that was hard---even a search of "secular holiday songs" yielded songs with the word Christmas in the title and Santa. So I'm not sure the definition of secular anymore. If as long as it doesn't mention Jesus--then there are lots of them."

That's interesting. I guess the next question is what defines secular. I think any song with "Christmas" or "Santa" in it is a "Christmas song" for the Christian celebrants. But that may be because of my Jewish background. So, for example, if a school holiday program had the following songs, I'd see it clearly as mostly Christian. But maybe other would not?

Frosty (Christian)
Jingle Bells (Christian)
Winter Wonderland (Christian)
Rudolf the Reindeer (Christian)
Deck the Halls (Christian)
O Hannukkah (Jewish)
Dreidel Song (Jewish)

It's not just because of your Jewish background. I'm Christian and I agree with you. Any song that mentions Santa or Christmas IMO would be a "Christmas song", not just the religious songs like "Silent Night". I'm also curious as to the songs that were actually sung at this pageant, not just the secular ones, but the Hanukkah songs, too. I mean if we're calling the Dreidel Song a Hanukkah song, how can we not call Rudolph a Christmas song?

oops! ETA: Jingle Bells, Winter Wonderland and Frosty, I just think of as winter songs.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Jingle Bells was actually written in the 1900's for Thanksgiving

You are a fountain of information!

That is just too funny that it was written for Thanksgiving! Now I feel more justified when I play christmas music on Thanksgiving --Jingle Bells makes a nice segue into my song collection.

 

[castleview]

Jingle Bells was actually written in the 1900's for Thanksgiving

My kindergartener learned that too a few weeks ago. I've learned so much since she's started school.

 

[JennyMominRI]

You are a fountain of information!

That is just too funny that it was written for Thanksgiving! Now I feel more justified when I play christmas music on Thanksgiving --Jingle Bells makes a nice segue into my song collection.

I happened upon the infomation when googling the lyrics
Jingle Bells!

Believe it or not Jingle Bells, one of the most famous American Christmas songs, was originally written for Thanksgiving! The author and composer of Jingle Bells was a minister called James Pierpoint who composed the song in 1857 for children celebrating his Boston Sunday School Thanksgiving. The song was so popular that it was repeated at Christmas, and indeed Jingle Bells has been reprised ever since.
The essence of a traditional Christmas is captured in the lyrics of Jingle Bells and the sound effects using the bells have become synonymous with the arrival of Father Christmas or Santa Claus to the delight of children of all ages!

 

[JennyMominRI]

You are a fountain of information!

That is just too funny that it was written for Thanksgiving! Now I feel more justified when I play christmas music on Thanksgiving --Jingle Bells makes a nice segue into my song collection.

Once Santa has gone past on the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade,I'm really to bring on the Christmas Carols

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It's not just because of your Jewish background. I'm Christian and I agree with you. Any song that mentions Santa or Christmas IMO would be a "Christmas song", not just the religious songs like "Silent Night". I'm also curious as to the songs that were actually sung at this pageant, not just the secular ones, but the Hanukkah songs, too. I mean if we're calling the Dreidel Song a Hanukkah song, how can we not call Rudolph a Christmas song?

That's the problem--I said I googled and couldn't find any songs that didn't mention Christmas--secular Christmas or otherwise. And when I googled "secular holiday songs"--I got a bunch of songs that still mentioned Christmas--and it even came up with songs that were clearly about the birth of Jesus (or similar themed to his birth).

We're trying to figure out what songs they could have been that would have caused the OP to be upset that no Christmas songs were included. Also--we don't know specifically (or maybe we do--I'd have to go check) what the 2 Kwanzaa and 2 Hannukah songs were. If in any way they refer to religious components...then the OP would be justified at the omission of a religous Christmas song.

So unless the other songs were just about winter---I don't know what they possibly could have been.

 

[Puffy2]

I am very tired of the whole PC thing. I work in a grocery store and we are told not to wish people Merry Christmas. It is Happy Holidays. Now I can see it if you have no idea what the perosn celebrates, but if I have a customer buying CHRISTMAS stuff, I am wishing them a Merry Christmas. Next thing we know, stores won't be closed on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, it will be closed on Holiday Eve and Holiday Day.

Well, I was at a WalMart today and I was wished a Merry Christmas. and I've talked with an employee of Target who said that at his store the employees were told to use their common sense - Christmas stuff being checked out? Merry Christmas! Hannakah stuff? Happy Hannakah! Nothing in particular "happy holiday!"

 

[inaminute]

...how come the blue Northeast (I live in CT) hasn't seen this stuff?

Let's see--grandson is having a Holiday Party on the 16th of December, the children are exchanging Holiday gifts on the 23rd. They're making a Holiday Gingerbread House. Haven't heard a word about a concert of any kind so far this year.

Last year, they had a concert (2nd grade) with holiday songs--Kwaanza and Hanukah songs were sung and, I guess if you consider Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer to be a Christmas song, then it was included.

In his class he learned all about Hanukah and Kwaanza. I think I still have the projects he worked on for those topics. Christmas was not included. Wasn't even mentioned.

So, yes. We have seen it in Connecticut. At least in this part of Connecticut.

 

[2funny2c]

Let's see--grandson is having a Holiday Party on the 16th of December, the children are exchanging Holiday gifts on the 23rd. They're making a Holiday Gingerbread House. Haven't heard a word about a concert of any kind so far this year.

Last year, they had a concert (2nd grade) with holiday songs--Kwaanza and Hanukah songs were sung and, I guess if you consider Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer to be a Christmas song, then it was included.

In his class he learned all about Hanukah and Kwaanza. I think I still have the projects he worked on for those topics. Christmas was not included. Wasn't even mentioned.

So, yes. We have seen it in Connecticut. At least in this part of Connecticut.

I think the media was involved in this.

Has to be the reason why Christmas was included.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Let's see--grandson is having a Holiday Party on the 16th of December, the children are exchanging Holiday gifts on the 23rd. They're making a Holiday Gingerbread House. Haven't heard a word about a concert of any kind so far this year.

Last year, they had a concert (2nd grade) with holiday songs--Kwaanza and Hanukah songs were sung and, I guess if you consider Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer to be a Christmas song, then it was included.

In his class he learned all about Hanukah and Kwaanza. I think I still have the projects he worked on for those topics. Christmas was not included. Wasn't even mentioned.

So, yes. We have seen it in Connecticut. At least in this part of Connecticut.

I think many places assume that any child growing up in America is already pretty clear about what Christmas is. Unless they grow up under a rock they certainly should..How many people right here on this very board have asked questions about what Chanukah is?
When I wa sin maybe 4th grade we a did a Christmas around the world thing.. I really liked learning about the way it is celebrated in other countries

 

[inaminute]

How many people right here on this very board have asked questions about what Chanukah is?

It's not up to the public schools to teach the Jewish religion. UNLESS they are going to teach Christian beliefs as well.

Personally, I could care less what is being taught. I think knowledge is a powerful thing--and the more, the better. I just feel that if one religion is going to be taught in public school, then all should be taught. If one must be excluded, then all must be excluded.

I object to the double standard.

 

[AnaheimGirl]

Why is that wrong?

We cant wish anyone of a different faith Merry Christmas? Should we do a faith check before extending this pleasantry?

If a Jewish person came up to me and said Happy Hannukah or Merry Yom Kiphur<sp> I wouldnt be offended.

I wouldn't be offended either, if someone wished me a Happy Hanukkah or Yom Kippur, or Ramadan, or Diwali for that matter. However, I would think it was a little odd. I think it'd be silly to do a faith check before exchanging a greeting as well, that's why Happy Holidays works so well. It includes everyone.

The only thing new about all this is the offense some Christians are taking at the use of the word Holiday. 25 years ago, I worked in a department store that asked us to say Happy Holidays unless we knew for sure the customer celebrated Christmas. Personally, I've been buying cards that say Happy Holidays for just as long. Not because I'm afraid of offending someone, but because I want include everyone, no matter what holiday(s) they celebrate. Saying Merry Christmas when I don't know whether the person celebrates Christmas is awfully presumptuous in my opinion.

 

[JennyMominRI]

It's not up to the public schools to teach the Jewish religion. UNLESS they are going to teach Christian beliefs as well.

Personally, I could care less what is being taught. I think knowledge is a powerful thing--and the more, the better. I just feel that if one religion is going to be taught in public school, then all should be taught. If one must be excluded, then all must be excluded.

I object to the double standard.

They are not teaching Judaism ..They are teaching kids about different holidays celebrated right here in this country.
Religions,all religions can be taught in schools depending on the context.
My Kids Social studies class tought themabout the birth of Judaishm,Then of Christianity and later the rise of Islam
One interresting thing to me was the chapter on the Birth of Christianity had a section about*for more information* and suggested people learn more about Christianity by reading the New Testament.. The Sections on the rise of Judaism and Islam said nothing at all about *for more information* read the Torah or the Q'uoran

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I wouldn't be offended either, if someone wished me a Happy Hanukkah or Yom Kippur, or Ramadan, or Diwali for that matter. However, I would think it was a little odd. I think it'd be silly to do a faith check before exchanging a greeting as well, that's why Happy Holidays works so well. It includes everyone.

Nothing wrong with wishing a Merry/Happy whatever and no need for a resume check to confirm faith for an appropriate salutation.

What I thought was wrong was the tone of trying to convert and an "if they don't like it, too bad" mentality. The sentiment wasn't wrong--the attitude behind it was.

If you knew someone was a Jehovah's Witness--you wouldn't wish them a Happy Birthday. And if you did--it would be wrong to think "if they don't like it, too bad". And if you didn't know and they say so--you say, I'm sorry I didn't know and move on.

 

[cardaway]

I think the issue here, 2funny, is that when you bring up the Great Commission, you make it seem like your Holiday Greeting is an attempt to convert whomever you're talking to, rather than truly extending warm wishes to them--as if there's some kind of hidden agenda.

I could be wrong, though.

Hidden?

 

[Miss Jasmine]

It has been Christmas in this country since the founding fathers settled here. Why does it have to be changed now?? I will continue to wish everyone a Merry Christmas-if they don't like it-that's they're problem, not mine.

I thought this was intersting that I read on another site: The Christmas tree tradition most likely came to the United States with Hessian troops during the American Revolution, or with German immigrants to Pennsylvania and Ohio, adds Robson.

But the custom spread slowly. The Puritans banned Christmas in New England. Even as late as 1851, a Cleveland minister nearly lost his job because he allowed a tree in his church. Schools in Boston stayed open on Christmas Day through 1870, and sometimes expelled students who stayed home.

 

[frndshpcptn]

OP - are you able to share with us the songs that were sung during the performance?

 

[AnaheimGirl]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002668964_danny07.html
-----------------

Losing our battle for Christmas
By Danny Westneat

Seattle Times staff columnist

<<snip>>>
And here's what's truly sad. After we are persecuted from the malls, how are we supposed to observe the birth of the Lord? What's left for us? Just church? The family hearth?

I can't imagine what Jesus would have said about that.
<<snip>>>

Now that is funny!