Guest Assistance Cards ending, to be replaced with Fastpasses?

[SueM in MN]

For those interested, there is currently an online petition with over 30,000 signatures asking Disney not to implement these changes. Here is the blog of the woman who started it. I really think everyone should read this post, especially if you are fortunate enough not to have a child with special needs or use the GAC. As a mother of two healthy children, it sickens me to think of some of the comments that have been made by people who have no idea what these families go through on a daily basis.

Blog

Online Petition

I know people writing in their blogs and starting petitions are very heartfelt and very upset about the change, but most are assuming Disney is making these changes because of abuse - that is one reason, but the bigger reason is that the program is not working the way it is.
I posted this earlier in the thread.
This is a video someone posted on YouTube that shows the Toy Story Mania accessible part of the queue. Anyone with mobility issues, can't do stairs or is using a mobility device needs to use that access because of stairs in the regular line. Many people also use it because they have a GAC and think it will be a shorter, more quiet wait.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...top_uri=/watch?v=q464fj2r-YI&feature=youtu.be

She apparently took the video to make the case for continuing the GAC program without change because the places she got in faster were offset by those with longer waits.
But, it actually illustrates one of the reasons they are changing the program - there is no predictable flow of guests to that area.
You could get there and find few (which some posters have claimed they always do) or you could arrive and have the ramp filled all the way to the start of the ramp, not just to the first bend like the video shows. They load one pod of cars (6 passengers because one car seats only 2 instead of 4) per ride cycle, so that line is really going to have a long wait.
One of the aims of the new program is to get more consistency in guests with special needs arriving at attractions.
There is no way for the ride to handle that many people without backing up.
Keeping the GAC the way it currently is means doing nothing to stop abuse or help the people stuck in lines like that.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

For those interested, there is currently an online petition with over 30,000 signatures asking Disney not to implement these changes. Here is the blog of the woman who started it. I really think everyone should read this post, especially if you are fortunate enough not to have a child with special needs or use the GAC. As a mother of two healthy children, it sickens me to think of some of the comments that have been made by people who have no idea what these families go through on a daily basis.

Blog

Online Petition

Just a quick word on online petition because anyone can sign it with out anything really to back up who you are companies generally ignore them. There was one stred to save the adventures club and had signatures from Indiana Jones and various other mad up names on it.

 

[AndreaA]

She apparently took the video to make the case for continuing the GAC program without change because the places she got in faster were offset by those with longer waits.
But, it actually illustrates one of the reasons they are changing the program - there is no predictable flow of guests to that area.
You could get there and find few (which some posters have claimed they always do) or you could arrive and have the ramp filled all the way to the start of the ramp, not just to the first bend like the video shows. They load one pod of cars (6 passengers because one car seats only 2 instead of 4) per ride cycle, so that line is really going to have a long wait.
One of the aims of the new program is to get more consistency in guests with special needs arriving at attractions.
There is no way for the ride to handle that many people without backing up.
Keeping the GAC the way it currently is means doing nothing to stop abuse or help the people stuck in lines like that.

I've mentioned this before, but I think it bears repeating. I do not see how the new system will at all alleviate those sorts of lines. If 30 disabled people used to crowd into the TSMM queue with their GACs, then now 30 disabled people will go to the DAS kiosk at the same time and be given the same - or virtually the same - return time. How will this help? Unless Disney intends to PREVENT more than a certain number of disabled people from going at the same time - as in, telling people at the kiosk, "Sorry, we already have 4 people with DAS passes in that time slot". A time-slot quota, as it were. There is no way that will lead to "equal" wait times for people using the DAS system. You cannot control the flow of guests to a ride unless you specifically prevent people from riding at certain times.

That is just one of the problems I have with the system. People keep posting pictures and videos of the currently long GAC lines at some rides, but this new system will NOT change things.

 

[babydoll65]

Lol, didn't mean to be offensive at all! I just loved the smallness of our last one. It is me and my sister lifting that thing in and out when we do girl trips. Now my boys could just lift it up and in...

Don't worry, you were not being offensive. She's not small and if she were it would have been great to get a smaller scooter because I probably would have rented a car since t could easily be dismantled. Iv been sent coupons for discounts on e-z rent a car that would have been awsome I'm just not sure how to disassemble a scooter. I hate being at the bus stops and all the looks you get from people when they see your with someone with a scooter.

 

[Granny square]

Don't worry, you were not being offensive. She's not small and if she were it would have been great to get a smaller scooter because I probably would have rented a car since t could easily be dismantled. Iv been sent coupons for discounts on e-z rent a car that would have been awsome I'm just not sure how to disassemble a scooter. I hate being at the bus stops and all the looks you get from people when they see your with someone with a scooter.

I know. We have been given the evil eye when loading after waiting for over an hour due to bus issues. Then either my sister or I have to load it because mom gets nervous when people are seeming unkind.

 

[lovethattink]

I've mentioned this before, but I think it bears repeating. I do not see how the new system will at all alleviate those sorts of lines. If 30 disabled people used to crowd into the TSMM queue with their GACs, then now 30 disabled people will go to the DAS kiosk at the same time and be given the same - or virtually the same - return time. How will this help? Unless Disney intends to PREVENT more than a certain number of disabled people from going at the same time - as in, telling people at the kiosk, "Sorry, we already have 4 people with DAS passes in that time slot". A time-slot quota, as it were. There is no way that will lead to "equal" wait times for people using the DAS system. You cannot control the flow of guests to a ride unless you specifically prevent people from riding at certain times.

That is just one of the problems I have with the system. People keep posting pictures and videos of the currently long GAC lines at some rides, but this new system will NOT change things.

We ran into the TSM back up every now and then when my son could ride the attraction. It seemed hit or miss. I agree that I don't see how the DAS could cut down on that. Only adding on more cars to load or changing the queue so that riders who don't need an accessible car (many can't do steps but aren't using a w/c on the attraction) could load at the exit would change this problem.

I know. We have been given the evil eye when loading after waiting for over an hour due to bus issues. Then either my sister or I have to load it because mom gets nervous when people are seeming unkind.

Just be careful switching drivers. We met a family who was staying at AKL at the end of May early June and the dad fell off the bus ramp and ended up with serious injuries. He had to be helicoptered to a hospital.

 

[babydoll65]

I know. We have been given the evil eye when loading after waiting for over an hour due to bus issues. Then either my sister or I have to load it because mom gets nervous when people are seeming unkind.

I know what you mean. When we went in 2009, certain buses made you back in on the ramp which always caused an issue but I think they have changed the ramps on the buses because I think you can just drive forward and she's good with that. My mother can have somewhat of a "sailor mouth" and if she overheard anyone saying something nasty she would not hesitate to say something.

 

[MinnieLovesMickey12]

I've mentioned this before, but I think it bears repeating. I do not see how the new system will at all alleviate those sorts of lines. If 30 disabled people used to crowd into the TSMM queue with their GACs, then now 30 disabled people will go to the DAS kiosk at the same time and be given the same - or virtually the same - return time. How will this help? Unless Disney intends to PREVENT more than a certain number of disabled people from going at the same time - as in, telling people at the kiosk, "Sorry, we already have 4 people with DAS passes in that time slot". A time-slot quota, as it were. There is no way that will lead to "equal" wait times for people using the DAS system. You cannot control the flow of guests to a ride unless you specifically prevent people from riding at certain times.

That is just one of the problems I have with the system. People keep posting pictures and videos of the currently long GAC lines at some rides, but this new system will NOT change things.

That issue will probably never be solved at TSMM. Because ppl go straight to it first thing in the morning when rope drop happens. But through out the day there are not going to be 30 disabled ppl who all decide right in the very same moment to all go get a DAS return time from the kiosk.

Once ppl know about the kiosk they will go when it is convenient for them. The only bottle necking I envision is first thing in the morning.

But with normal wait times for TSMM around 120 minutes I am not sure there is a solution to that ride wait time unless they build a second TSMM. It's not like they don't have room in the park to do it.

They built 2 Dumbo rides. They should build 2 Soarin and 2 TSMM.

No matter what the issue of the moment seems to be, ppl come up with a reasonable explanation for how things should work. Then it becomes a new issue.

It will just be 11 short days before the first batch of ppl get a chance to see how it works in real time. Hopefully some of those first ppl who get to try it are also DIS'ers and will come back and tell how it worked for them.

 

[Granny square]

I know what you mean. When we went in 2009, certain buses made you back in on the ramp which always caused an issue but I think they have changed the ramps on the buses because I think you can just drive forward and she's good with that. My mother can have somewhat of a "sailor mouth" and if she overheard anyone saying something nasty she would not hesitate to say something.

Lol, yay for your mom!

 

[babydoll65]

Sorry, this is a stupid question but what is TSMM. Thanks

 

[buggy]

My son has mild autism (Asperger's). We got a GAC when he was 5 at Disneyland in 2000 because we didn't know how he would handle the whole experience. We went at such a non-busy time that we found we didn't really need to use it. On subsequent trips, we didn't even bother getting one. He had his moments, but nothing we couldn't easily deal with. He is now 18 and perfectly capable of waiting as long as we plan well, make use of Fastpasses, etc. We've taken him to WDW twice and Disneyland many, many times.

What still shocks me is the number of people who encourage us to get a GAC, even when I explain that we don't need one. The principal of his special needs school said we should get "the card the helps you skip the lines." I told him my son can wait just fine and getting one would be cheating. I don't want him to think his disability will get him special privileges that he doesn't need. The principal couldn't believe I wouldn't get one anyway. I've had numerous others tell me to get a GAC since, technically, we qualify for one. I've tried to explain that GACs are based on need, not diagnosis. And my son doesn't "need" one. I guess I shouldn't be shocked because I know people regularly game the system. However, I didn't know there were so many people I know who are willing to do so.

Good for you for allowing your son to become exposed to "life" and according to the professionals, your actions more than likely helped him overcome his developmental issues.

http://afterthemouse.com/node/2439

Disneyland has had a long and proud tradition assisting its disabled Guests to get the most out of its attractions whether it is through wheel chair hire, wide access queue lines or with its Special Access Passes*. But research from the UK suggests these accommodations may be doing more harm than good for one group of Guests.

Allowing children with attention-deficit disorders to "line jump" at theme parks could be doing them more harm than good, one expert suggests.

Professor Rubia who has researched ADHD said her work showed such children did have serious problems with understanding time and an inability to delay a reward when talking to the BBC recently.

"This is clearly a medical condition, but it isn't right to bring them up in a system where they never have to wait. You're not making it any better for them - this is something they can be helped to learn.

"I can see why parents might like it, but in the long term you are not doing the child any favors. This is a condition which we can improve, and learning to wait should be part of that process."

 

[NYDisneyKid]

Sorry, this is a stupid question but what is TSMM. Thanks

toy story midway mania

 

[LilyWDW]

Another issue with the online petition... how do you petition something when you don't have all the information? You are simply petitioning rumors, fear, and whatever your mind has made up on how things will work. Can't we at least wait until there is more concrete information out there? Why should Disney take a petition seriously when it is based off of incomplete information?

 

[babydoll65]

toy story midway mania

Thanks

 

[mjaclyn]

If they want to have a petition, let them. If they think it will make a difference, more power to them. They're looking to give the special needs community a loud voice and are doing that in whatever way they can. I did not sign the petition because I do not use the GAC nor do I have any friends or family members that do. Whether Disney takes the petition seriously or not, that mom can feel like she's doing whatever she can at the moment. If it were my kids I would probably do the same thing if I really believed that making these changes would cause us not to be able to visit WDW.

 

[doconeill]

I haven't seen another source for this, but it looks legit...but pretty much the usual "yes, we're changing it, no details, we'll keep working on it..."

http://****************.com/a-letter-from-disney-official-statement-re-das-gac/

 

[AndreaA]

I haven't seen another source for this, but it looks legit...but pretty much the usual "yes, we're changing it, no details, we'll keep working on it..."

http://****************.com/a-letter-from-disney-official-statement-re-das-gac/

Well I am glad that she includes a paragraph about continuing to work with individual families and their unique circumstances. There have been numerous examples of families for whom the DAS (as currently explained) would not work, so putting out the "we'll work with you" statement is an important thing. Of course it remains to be seen what they will really do. I have long said that I believe they will have the DAS system (which I do think, after some refinements, will work for the majority of people, including my family) and in addition they will work with people and allow them the benefits of the previous GAC system where necessary.

 

[doconeill]

Well I am glad that she includes a paragraph about continuing to work with individual families and their unique circumstances. There have been numerous examples of families for whom the DAS (as currently explained) would not work, so putting out the "we'll work with you" statement is an important thing. Of course it remains to be seen what they will really do. I have long said that I believe they will have the DAS system (which I do think, after some refinements, will work for the majority of people, including my family) and in addition they will work with people and allow them the benefits of the previous GAC system where necessary.

I'm thinking the first thing they are after is those renting the wheelchairs/ECVs simply to use the accessible entrances. They are the easiest I think to to target first, and I think this could work fairly well for that.

It's the more specialized cases that are problematic, and how they can retain the flexibility while also limiting it to those who truly need it while handcuffed by the law is the big question.

 

[kuzco-like]

I confess that I haven't read all the posts in this thread (so maybe my idea has been suggested before), but it seems to me that a lot of people are upset by appearances. Currently, some people get angry because it appears that people with GACs get to cut the line. And with the proposed new system, some people who will be using the DAS are not keen to having the stigma of going to separate kiosks. Would everyone be happy if, with the new MDE/FP+ system, people who require GACs or DAS were able to plan and schedule their entire trip? That way, they wouldn't have to wait in long lines, and they wouldn't appear to be getting any more special treatment than anyone else. They would just be people with a lot of FPs. It would all happen "in the background". Of course, this idea ignores the concept of proving that you require a GAC/DAS. I have no solution for that.

 

[jcb]

I'm thinking the first thing they are after is those renting the wheelchairs/ECVs simply to use the accessible entrances. They are the easiest I think to to target first, and I think this could work fairly well for that.

It's the more specialized cases that are problematic, and how they can retain the flexibility while also limiting it to those who truly need it while handcuffed by the law is the big question.

I'm not sure I wholly agree with the word "handcuffed" but I do suspect that Disney's disability law counsel may be spending some time in guest services in the next several months.

For one, the confidentiality requirements in the DOJ regulations are tricky, and, in my view, too stringent if they are interpreted to prohibit any inquiries about an the nature of an individual's disabilities (I am not certain that the regulations will be interpreted in this manner).

The ADA requires Disney to make reasonable modifications to its policies if necessary to permit full and equal enjoyment. It's hard to see how Disney can evaluate what modifications it must make if it doesn't know the type or extent of the disability. To be sure, some disabilities are obvious and no inquiry is needed or permitted. For example, in the 2010 revisions to the ADA regulations, the DOJ emphasized it has a "longstanding, well-established policy of not allowing public accommodations or establishments [e.g., Disney] to require proof of a mobility disability."

Other disabilities, especially those that are not obvious, may take a little explanation or even a physician's note. This isn't to say that Disney can (or will) demand medical proof even for non-obvious disabilities. In many instances, Disney will accept, happily I expect, something less.

With the goal of the changes being to avoid abuse, the legal risk for Disney is leaning to far toward requiring "proof" of a disability. It isn't like Disney and the DOJ's ADA enforcement section are best buddies, after all but so far, the courts have agreed (mostly) with Disney.

The more unusual the requested modification, the more Disney can require in terms of proof of need for that modification. Again, there are limits on what Disney can require; it has to be reasonable (hence the suggestion that there will be a direct line from guest services to the legal department).

Like Doc, I'm encouraged by the paragraph he references because it is a recognition that Disney does not want its guests to think it is trying to adopt a one size fits all accommodation. While I don't want to be taken as giving "legal advice" here, I would also encourage everyone who has or advocates for someone who needs a modification because of a disability (obvious or not) to not assume Disney has made up its mind on what it will do.