Guest Assistance Cards ending, to be replaced with Fastpasses?

[FireDancer]

I would gladly trade this "perk" for not being disabled.

Nobody can predict the future. The day may come when you or a family member become disabled. Then you will be able to experience the reality of these "perks."

I also wear earmuffs during nighttime and loud shows. Are earmuffs a "perk" too?

I'm sure you would. I would also not trade being able bodied to have the shorter wait. I didn't mean one offset the other. I meant the perks were unintended loopholes and were enough of a perk to some to abuse the system so those loopholes are being closed.

Really, I'm just having a discussion about what I think is the best solution and my opinion. I'm not making the decision and will not be writing Disney or emailing them to either complain or congratulate them on whatever they implement. I've just casually watched GAC threads here and other places and came up with my own opinion on the best way to handle disabilities without over-correcting for them and changing equaling measures into bettering measures. Not necessarily because they make it "unfair" but because it isn't how they were designed and it makes the system more attractive to those who abuse it.

 

[Justin Jett]

I'm sure you would. I would also not trade being able bodied to have the shorter wait. I didn't mean one offset the other. I meant the perks were unintended loopholes and were enough of a perk to some to abuse the system so those loopholes are being closed.

Really, I'm just having a discussion about what I think is the best solution and my opinion. I'm not making the decision and will not be writing Disney or emailing them to either complain or congratulate them on whatever they implement. I've just casually watched GAC threads here and other places and came up with my own opinion on the best way to handle disabilities without over-correcting for them and changing equaling measures into bettering measures. Not necessarily because they make it "unfair" but because it isn't how they were designed and it makes the system more attractive to those who abuse it.

It should not be seen as a "perk." Perks are incentives.

 

[kamik86]

Where would you like my family to vacation?

We tried vacationing elsewhere with our son. We went to DC, as we walked around the National Mall, my son jumping and flapping, people starred and whispered, " why would you take that kid here?" We went to St. Augustine, and tried to tour the OLd Jail, which scarred the heck our of my child, as we tried to discretely back out of the tour we got more stares and more " why would you take that kid here?"

We finally came to the conclusion that WDW was the only place that we could somewhat plan our day, with few hiccups, and our son could be himself without the stares and disapproving head shakes.

None of this is fair for my neuro typical son who really would like to see the monuments, tour Museums, etc. There is no respite in my area, and truthfully, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable leaving my child with limited speech with a stranger. Would you leave your normal child with a stranger?

Your ignorance on this matter is really showing, perhaps you need to spend a day with a disabled child. Well be in WDW next month if you want to stand in line with my son for a few rides.

.

When I read your post I see so Disney is far ahead of everyone else that it was the ONLY place you found that granted this level of access. That to me means Disney was going above and beyond equal access. As much as it would be great to allow everyone that had a harder lot in life to have a truly magical time and make everything easy I'm not sure that is possible. The needs of the disabled do still need to be balanced with the needs of allowing everyone else to still ride as well.

Disney has hundreds if not 1000s of people that are either disabled or the family of disabled in the parks each day. Always giving them the ability to reride etc would mean forcing everyone else into a much smaller amount of ride time. There has to be some balance so that everyone gets to enjoy the parks.

Now if you say not every disabled family would need these benefits maybe that is true but then legally disney can't ask much about a disability to really judge that. So unless that changes there really does have to be a standard procedure across the board for everyone.

 

[FireDancer]

It should not be seen as a "perk." Perks are incentives.

Are these perks not incentives for those like the Manhattan mom who abuse the system? Logic states that if there was no benefit there would be no incentive to abuse the system. The new system seems to try and get rid of the incentives/perks/benefits and make it truly equal access without being better or quicker access. If it is only equal and not better in any way there is very little incentive to abuse it. No?

 

[Kay1]

WISH is a one time experience and highly regulated as far as who qualifies for it. Disney has always treated them differently.

If someone was going repeatedly on a ride that had a 30 minute wait without waiting 30 minutes between rides they are skipping the line. Even if they get handed a fastpass and go through that line when they are supposed to wait in the stand by line they are skipping the line. Entering a shorter line then you are supposed to wait in is skipping the line. Skipping the line doesn't mean you don't wait at all, it means you don't wait as long as everyone else. That should not be allowed in my opinion based on ability.

Look, I am not interested in going around and around. The bottom line is the way GAC should have always worked was allowing an alternative way to see an attraction, not allowing a way to wait a shorter amount of time to see it. Disney is merely closing a loophole they never intended to be there. At least that is the way I am interpreting the way they have been used and how they are being changed. Now, everyone will have the ability to go on a ride in 30 minutes if there is a 30 minute wait, 60 minutes if there is a 60 minute wait, or walk right on when there is no wait regardless of whether they wait in the standard line or somewhere else. The rules of society is everyone waits their turn. The new system is literally allowing for people to have an alternative way to wait their turn. That gets a from me.

The rules of society say everyone has to wait his turn. Okay, I've never seen that written anywhere, but I live my life by the Golden Rule, which is my choice. I am lucky to be healthy and able to wait my turn, but it's not all about me, you see?

The day before Thanksgiving, I was rushing around and happened to pull off one of my dental crowns while eating leftover Halloween candy. My dentist sent me to an emergency clinic and while I was waiting, a young man came in who appeared to be in a lot of pain.

I was called in first and immediately told the assistant that I had no discomfort and would happily let the young man receive treatment first. She said they were about to call him in and not to worry. I'm not telling you this to brag about what a great person I am, but to offer you a different perspective on life.

What if the assistant had told me that she needed to take the young man in before me? I can't imagine telling her, no, I was here first. It's my turn, I'm entitled to it, I don't owe him anything, and letting him in first wouldn't be fair to me. I just don't live that way.

 

[FireDancer]

The rules of society say everyone has to wait his turn. Okay, I've never seen that written anywhere, but I live my life by the Golden Rule, which is my choice. I am lucky to be healthy and able to wait my turn, but it's not all about me, you see?

The day before Thanksgiving, I was rushing around and happened to pull off one of my dental crowns while eating leftover Halloween candy. My dentist sent me to an emergency clinic and while I was waiting, a young man came in who appeared to be in a lot of pain.

I was called in first and immediately told the assistant that I had no discomfort and would happily let the young man receive treatment first. She said they were about to call him in and not to worry. I'm not telling you this to brag about what a great person I am, but to offer you a different perspective on life.

What if the assistant had told me that she needed to take the young man in before me? I can't imagine telling her, no, I was here first. It's my turn, I'm entitled to it, I don't owe him anything, and letting him in first wouldn't be fair to me. I just don't live that way.

Yea, Disney isn't a hospital. If someone at Disney needs medical treatment they should be treated based on need. The order in which you ride a ride is not the same as the order in which you are treated in a hospital. If you want to give up your turn for someone else that is fine and even noble but only if the person you give it up for is next in line after you. If the person you let in front of you is 50th in line you are making a decision for 48 other people and that isn't right.

 

[mrsksomeday]

While the "fairness" of the GAC changes are being strongly debated all over the internet, I think this visual makes a lot of sense. (I didn't make this or it wouldn't say meaning it would say mean, but it still works )

 

[Justin Jett]

Are these perks not incentives for those like the Manhattan mom who abuse the system? Logic states that if there was no benefit there would be no incentive to abuse the system. The new system seems to try and get rid of the incentives/perks/benefits and make it truly equal access without being better or quicker access. If it is only equal and not better in any way there is very little incentive to abuse it. No?

I hope that one day you have the opportunity to experience the parks with someone who is disabled. Then, and only then, will you understand how much "better" things really are.

I hope one day you have the same "perks" as I do. You deserve the experience.

 

[jcb]

It does remind me of the lady who sued Disney because they would not allow her to ride TOT multiple times. She claimed that it helped with her medical condition. Her suit was thrown out. The judge said Disney wasn't in the business of administering an experience that served a medical purpose.

Actually, if you are talking about this lawsuit, Disney and Ms. Mooty settled it in August 2010. I know you are shocked that there was no publicity about it. Of course, settlement doesn't mean anyone was "at fault."

Its also important to note that Mooty did not try to claim disability discrimination. She was upset that Disney "falsely" arrested her. (Disney said it was because she was using profanity.)

 

[runswithscissors]

I can't imagine telling her, no, I was here first. It's my turn, I'm entitled to it, I don't owe him anything, and letting him in first wouldn't be fair to me. I just don't live that way.

Why do you assume that FireDancer lives that way? From my perspective, it is clear that she doesn't live that way...she has repeatedly stated her position is one of fair and equitable treatment for all while following the law of ADA. For what it's worth, FireDancer, I've been impressed with your calm demeanor and smart discussion of a hot topic.

 

[Justin Jett]

http://youtu.be/nvMga5DJ2L4?t=2m16s

 

[mrzrich]

Why do you assume that FireDancer lives that way? From my perspective, it is clear that she doesn't live that way...she has repeatedly stated her position is one of fair and equitable treatment for all while following the law of ADA. For what it's worth, FireDancer, I've been impressed with your calm demeanor and smart discussion of a hot topic.

ummm...her name is Frank

 

[buggy]

I would gladly trade this "perk" for not being disabled.

Nobody can predict the future. The day may come when you or a family member become disabled. Then you will be able to experience the reality of these "perks."

Justin, everyone here knows that these special passes were originally intended for those like you and my daughter who are truly disabled and needed the GAC for alternate entrances and to help even out the wait times when having to wait on an accessible ride vehicle.

What everyone is so frustrated about is that those with invisible disabilities abused the system because they are physically healthy and had no issue transferring to a normal ride vehicle. Therefore, the GAC shorten the waiting period for those with invisible disabilities and even allowed them to ride the ride two or three times in a row. This was not the intention of the GAC.

Hopefully, Disney will step up to the plate and acknowledge that those who are truly physically disabled do need a GAC type pass to help even the wait times when it comes to rides that require wheelchair accessibility.

 

[runswithscissors]

ummm...her name is Frank

Thank you for kindly pointing that out.

My apologies, Frank! Regardless of your gender, I still commend you on how you've approached this topic. It's not always easy to hold your tongue...

 

[mrzrich]

Justin, everyone here knows that these special passes were originally intended for those like you and my daughter who are truly disabled and needed the GAC for alternate entrances and to help even out the wait times when having to wait on an accessible ride vehicle.

What everyone is so frustrated about is that those with invisible disabilities abused the system because they are physically healthy and had no issue transferring to a normal ride vehicle. Therefore, the GAC shorten the waiting period for those with invisible disabilities and even allowed them to ride the ride two or three times in a row. This was not the intention of the GAC.

Hopefully, Disney will step up to the plate and acknowledge that those who are truly physically disabled do need a GAC type pass to help even the wait times when it comes to rides that require wheelchair accessibility.

Wow just wow.

I have been enjoying the banter with Firedancer, because I welsome the oportunity to enlighten those who have never walked in my shoes.

But wow. For one parent of one disabled childed to imply that my child is not TRULY DISABLED. is appalling.

1.My son will never be able to live on his own,
2. His best hope for a job is rolling plastic forks and knives in a napkin all day,
3.He will wear pull ups to bed for the rest of his life
4. He will never be able to write his own name.

I have the same fears for my child that you have for yours. I worry who will look after him when I am gone.

As I have said before, we only use the GAC for waits more than 30 minutes.

The reason for this change is not people with invisible disabilities ABUSING THE SYSTEM. The reason for the change is greedy fakers, and people who were paying disabled people to act as their "token" to get FOTL access.

 

[babydoll65]

I thought the GAC was not ment for guests using wheelchair or scooters. I'm not talking about wheelchair bound guests, I'm talking about stamina reasons. My mother using a scooter for our trip due to knee and back surgery and was told she would not qualify for a GAC because the scooter takes care of the issue she has and a cm does not need to look at a card when they can visibly see her issue. We did not get a GAC card for her the last time we went and pulled fast passes the same as we would even if she had not needed the scooter and the trip went just the same (no more or less) than any other trip I went on without her.

 

[Kay1]

Why do you assume that FireDancer lives that way? From my perspective, it is clear that she doesn't live that way...she has repeatedly stated her position is one of fair and equitable treatment for all while following the law of ADA. For what it's worth, FireDancer, I've been impressed with your calm demeanor and smart discussion of a hot topic.

I don't. I strictly commented on the "rules of society."

 

[FireDancer]

Thank you for kindly pointing that out.

My apologies, Frank! Regardless of your gender, I still commend you on how you've approached this topic. It's not always easy to hold your tongue...

Haha, not worries. It is an interesting problem and I like trying to solve interesting problems. A perfect solution would make wait times equal for everyone besides the WISH kids. I think that is just the most fair solution. Obviously others disagree but the discussion is still interesting.

Justin, everyone here knows that these special passes were originally intended for those like you and my daughter who are truly disabled and needed the GAC for alternate entrances and to help even out the wait times when having to wait on an accessible ride vehicle.

What everyone is so frustrated about is that those with invisible disabilities abused the system because they are physically healthy and had no issue transferring to a normal ride vehicle. Therefore, the GAC shorten the waiting period for those with invisible disabilities and even allowed them to ride the ride two or three times in a row. This was not the intention of the GAC.

Hopefully, Disney will step up to the plate and acknowledge that those who are truly physically disabled do need a GAC type pass to help even the wait times when it comes to rides that require wheelchair accessibility.

There is a difference between a not obvious disability and those who either abuse or outright scam the system. Are there people who scam the system or end up getting access greater then they really need for their disability? Of course. Is everyone not in a wheel chair, ECV, or visibly handicapped one of them. Not in the slightest.

What you described very well might have included people who were cheating the system. I don't think all or even the majority where though.

But, what you described is one of the perceptions that the system created because it worked for some as an unlimited fastpass. That is the crux of my entire argument for how the updates will improve the system. The system will become level as far as wait times go. If there is no wait time advantage for those who don't actually need an alternative to waiting in line there is very little incentive to get it. If the GAC is used to make sure everyone gets on an attraction with a 30 minute wait time in about 30 minutes there is little incentive to get one if you don't truly need it. Will there be people who do? Sure. But I feel there will be less of them and the re-working will make the impact on other guests less severe.

 

[Justin Jett]

I thought the GAC was not ment for guests using wheelchair or scooters. I'm not talking about wheelchair bound guests, I'm talking about stamina reasons. My mother using a scooter for our trip due to knee and back surgery and was told she would not qualify for a GAC because the scooter takes care of the issue she has and a cm does not need to look at a card when they can visibly see her issue. We did not get a GAC card for her the last time we went and pulled fast passes the same as we would even if she had not needed the scooter and the trip went just the same (no more or less) than any other trip I went on without her.

 

[buggy]

But wow. For one parent of one disabled childed to imply that my child is not TRULY DISABLED. is appalling.

1.My son will never be able to live on his own,
2. His best hope for a job is rolling plastic forks and knives in a napkin all day,
3.He will wear pull ups to bed for the rest of his life
4. He will never be able to write his own name.

I understand but your son is not "physically disabled" and that is who the first special passes were intended to assist because most rides back then were not wheelchair accessible and then you had the extra wait due to very few wheelchair accessible rides. Your son can physically maneuver through the queue and transfer on his own to a ride vehicle.

Let's face it, people with invisible disabilities were able to ride the coattails of the physically disabled for a good long while but the party is now over. With the exception of the extra waiting periods for the physically disabled who can't transfer and must wait for an accessible ride vehicle, I think the new system will be fair and eliminate the "unintended" abuse by those with invisible disabilities.