Guest Assistance Cards ending, to be replaced with Fastpasses?

[Halloweenqueen]

I would also like to address the "well, you still don't have to wait in line, you just have to wait your turn" statements. What would you propose people do with return times that are only 30, 20 or 15min in the future? Seems like that isn't enough time to do anything but hang around the ride entrance. That is NOT going to work for a lot of people, but getting in lines with even a 15-20min wait could be disastrous for them.

I certainly hope Disney is thinking about this. I can't imagine how difficult it will be for some families.

 

[Justin Jett]

As someone with both visible and invisible disabilities, I understand and experience the needs of both. All disabled people have the right to have their unique needs accommodated.

I will be at Disney October 10-19 to see how this works. My initial opinion of the DAS is that it is one of those corporate ideas that good on paper, but creates problems in reality. The change by itself will be hard, and the known information as of right now has me dreading my trip.

 

[AndreaA]

What they do in that 30, 20, or 15 minutes is up to them but I do know the answer isn't letting them skip that 30, 20, or 15 minute wait or enter the fastpass line without a fastpass. That seems to be what some people are looking for.

I'm not sure why it isn't the answer and exactly what Disney ends up doing. At Universal, if the line is under 30min, the people go through the express line. If it's over 30min they get a stamped return time. This seems much more logical and workable than giving someone a time stamp 16min in the future.

 

[Pooh2]

As someone with both visible and invisible disabilities, I understand and experience the needs of both. All disabled people have the right to have their unique needs accommodated.

I will be at Disney October 10-19 to see how this works. My initial opinion of the DAS is that it is one of those corporate ideas that good on paper, but creates problems in reality. The change by itself will be hard, and the known information as of right now has me dreading my trip.

Hope you have a wonderful trip!
Please report back with your experience!

 

[Justin Jett]

Hope you have a wonderful trip!
Please report back with your experience!

I will be reporting back, as well as live blogging.

 

[livndisney]

If she is using a wheelchair or scooter and needs moving platforms stopped, she does not need a GAC.
We often use the regular line with DD's wheelchair without showing a GAC. They will slow or stop the moving walkway if needed without a GAC for someone who HAS some sort of visible mobility need.

This is what I always thought, until several on the DIS pointed out that they needed a GAC in a wheelchair to shorten their wait to "even the playing field".

 

[ZehnJahren]

I'm subbing in mostly because of the civilized manner of this debate, but also because I'm truly wondering how they can change up this system in the future.

I unfortunately had to use a GAC in the recent past, but thank God that I'm pretty sure my next trip will be without need for one! I'm so lucky to say that.

I see both sides of this debate - on the one hand, I want to find the PP with the child who has cancer and give her every FP I can pull for the day so her little one can go on any ride they want as many times as they want.

On the other side, access for those with disabilities is supposed to be about equal access, and the currently proposed change would make access even across the board for those with and without disabilities. When I first went to get my first GAC (knew little about them), I genuinely expected something that would let me wait in line virtually and then get in line when my waiting was up. When I found out that wasn't always the case, I was actually surprised. I expected a Six Flags type setup, where I got a return time when I arrived at the ride. With my issues, this would have worked just fine for me.

But then, if you have a child (or adult, honestly) who has a severe sickness or needs to only be at the park for a few hours, the compassionate part of me wants them to get in as much as they can in that time.

I'm not sure what the final answer will be, but I'm hoping that the MBs are going to help. Maybe there will be a way to "program" people's bands that have a time limit, and they can use FP lines within a time frame - say mom comes up with her sick son and says "we won't make it past three hours because we need to return to the hotel for treatments" and they can code the band with three hours worth of FP line access or something... But if mom comes up and says her son will be lashing at others in line or too stimulated, the system works the same and they get a return time equal to the lines. I guess that would be abused too; but maybe something could work. Or maybe you can state when you book your trip that you're traveling with someone disabled, and they could set you up with a few additional FP times. Again, I understand that could be abused as well.

I hope that good things come out of this change in the long run, but I think that the first people "testing" this system are going to have to work out some kinks and possibly raise some stinks.

 

[Mickey1Fan]

We were thrilled with the GAC on our recent trip to WDW. My DDIL is hearing impared. Because people did not notice her hearing aids we were given many dirty looks as we were taken to reserved seating. Some were from reflective captioning and some were near the front so she could hear better. There was a PDA we rented for the day so she could follow dialogue on different attractions. At Festival of the Lion King she was given the script and a little flashlight to follow along. We enjoyed the ability for DDIL to be able to hear better or read a dialogue and she felt more a part of the attraction.

My DS almost got in a fight at FantasMIC! when we were seated and people sat beside us and were told to move. They were talking about how no one in our group was disabled. She was very embarassed to say the least. It was the worst experience of the trip. She was given a reflective caption device but of course not when the people were around to see it.

I am another person interested in how the new program will work. This was my first with GAC and we were quite impressed. Had I known about it, my Mom could have used this on our trip last year.

 

[FireDancer]

I'm not sure why it isn't the answer <snip>.

Because waiting your turn means waiting your turn. If that wait is 10 minutes or 120 that is what it is. I am 100% for an accommodation that allows you to wait your turn in some alternative manner then standing in line but whatever that accommodation is it needs to keep whomever has the DAS or GAC from getting on the ride faster then the standby time. That is, by any literal definition of the word, not equal. It is better. Having a system that has better anything is what draws people to scam it.

Really the meeting for the replacement of GAC should have had two main questions to answer. They are:

How do we make sure no one gets on an attraction faster then standby with the DAS while offering them an alternative to standing in line?

How do we eliminate any advantage for DAS guests over standard guests so that no one** sees any benefit to abusing the system.

As I have said all along any accessibility solution from GAC to DAS should be about equal access with regards to wait times. Not better or faster access or equal experience but equal access. Anything beyond that I feel was an unintended benefit and loophole that Disney is closing just as they closed loopholes with fastpass return times and refillable mugs.

**No one is not a realistic target because some people will just scam the system to try and get away with something they shouldn't but the majority of guests won't scam a system that offers no benefit.

 

[MrRomance]

I want to start with the disclaimer that I haven't read the entire thread but I've read, heard and debated this topic a LOT over the few days.

I visit WDW regularly and I have two adopted children with disabilities. My elder daughter has both physical and developmental problems including severe autism and what is medically known as "moderate mental retardation" (that is her DX and I'm not advocating the language used). My younger daughter has attachment disorder and PTSD from abuse she suffered. Both of them struggle during our visits to WDW in different ways but our belief has always been that we will manage their struggles and support them through it rather than get a GAC. The reason we feel that way is that the outside world will not change and allow my children to skip the line and we do not want them to expect that to be the case. This is our belief but I respect parents right to manage their situations in the way they see fit.

The situation as I see it is that people without genuine disabilities have abused the GAC system for a very long time (and I mean genuine, not invisible disabilities because no one would know that my kids have the level of problems they do by looking at them). Another contributory factor to this is that genuinely disabled people have set the cause back years by hiring themselves out as "guides" to other people who just want to abuse the GAC system. This has made the system unsustainable.

In addition, the GAC was NEVER a promise of "skipping the lines" it was very clear that it offered an alternate wait area etc. The fact that this usually turned into skipping of lines, that was not the intention and never a guarantee.

When I hear people complaining about the new system it makes me very angry. I have heard things like "my child can't wait more than 10 seconds" and "this is discrimination". My view is this, if your child can not wait for 10 seconds, then taking them to WDW is cruel because they may have to wait longer than that to use the bathroom. Discrimination is the act of treating someone unfavorably, which is not the case here.

The new system is fair. In fact, I would say it is more than fair. It makes allowances for those who can't wait in a line but also means that people who have paid the same amount of money to be there are not sidelined after waiting for 90 minutes to get on Toy Story Mania. It is a happy medium. It seems to me that too many people do not want a happy medium, they don't want allowances and accommodations to be made and nothing short of skipping the line is good enough and that is wrong.

My kids throw themselves on the floor if they can't get what they want when they want but my job as a parent is to pick them up, calm them down or remove them from the distressing situation. It is no different to having a toddler in a tantrum. You deal with it like parents do. There is no need to skip a line, a card to come back at a set time combined with FP or FP+ is sufficient allowances.

Our special children need support and help through difficult situations, not shielding from them. They need to learn how to function in a world that they find difficult. They need help to cope. If we are ever to get equality for people with disabilities, then it has to be equal across the board. We can't claim to seek equal treatment then expect preferential treatment. My children are disabled, they struggle with life and they struggle at WDW, but I refuse to make them dependent on preferential treatment because honestly, they won't get it in the outside world. They're not going to get to skip the line for the bathroom, or the grocery store check out.

My children are disabled but they can wait their turn, they just can't wait in a crowded line so we use FP/FP+. I don't like that people are bashing Disney for being fair and reasonable.

 

[FireDancer]

I want to start with the disclaimer that I haven't read the entire thread but I've read, heard and debated this topic a LOT over the few days.

I visit WDW regularly and I have two adopted children with disabilities. My elder daughter has both physical and developmental problems including severe autism and what is medically known as "moderate mental retardation" (that is her DX and I'm not advocating the language used). My younger daughter has attachment disorder and PTSD from abuse she suffered. Both of them struggle during our visits to WDW in different ways but our belief has always been that we will manage their struggles and support them through it rather than get a GAC. The reason we feel that way is that the outside world will not change and allow my children to skip the line and we do not want them to expect that to be the case. This is our belief but I respect parents right to manage their situations in the way they see fit.

The situation as I see it is that people without genuine disabilities have abused the GAC system for a very long time (and I mean genuine, not invisible disabilities because no one would know that my kids have the level of problems they do by looking at them). Another contributory factor to this is that genuinely disabled people have set the cause back years by hiring themselves out as "guides" to other people who just want to abuse the GAC system. This has made the system unsustainable.

In addition, the GAC was NEVER a promise of "skipping the lines" it was very clear that it offered an alternate wait area etc. The fact that this usually turned into skipping of lines, that was not the intention and never a guarantee.

When I hear people complaining about the new system it makes me very angry. I have heard things like "my child can't wait more than 10 seconds" and "this is discrimination". My view is this, if your child can not wait for 10 seconds, then taking them to WDW is cruel because they may have to wait longer than that to use the bathroom. Discrimination is the act of treating someone unfavorably, which is not the case here.

The new system is fair. In fact, I would say it is more than fair. It makes allowances for those who can't wait in a line but also means that people who have paid the same amount of money to be there are not sidelined after waiting for 90 minutes to get on Toy Story Mania. It is a happy medium. It seems to me that too many people do not want a happy medium, they don't want allowances and accommodations to be made and nothing short of skipping the line is good enough and that is wrong.

My kids throw themselves on the floor if they can't get what they want when they want but my job as a parent is to pick them up, calm them down or remove them from the distressing situation. It is no different to having a toddler in a tantrum. You deal with it like parents do. There is no need to skip a line, a card to come back at a set time combined with FP or FP+ is sufficient allowances.

Our special children need support and help through difficult situations, not shielding from them. They need to learn how to function in a world that they find difficult. They need help to cope. If we are ever to get equality for people with disabilities, then it has to be equal across the board. We can't claim to seek equal treatment then expect preferential treatment. My children are disabled, they struggle with life and they struggle at WDW, but I refuse to make them dependent on preferential treatment because honestly, they won't get it in the outside world. They're not going to get to skip the line for the bathroom, or the grocery store check out.

My children are disabled but they can wait their turn, they just can't wait in a crowded line so we use FP/FP+. I don't like that people are bashing Disney for being fair and reasonable.

That is one of the most honest and frank posts I've seen about the issue. Kudos to you.

I really do think the new system will do a good job of giving an alternative to guests who can't wait in lines without giving them an advantage over other guests who can.

 

[AndreaA]

Because waiting your turn means waiting your turn. If that wait is 10 minutes or 120 that is what it is. I am 100% for an accommodation that allows you to wait your turn in some alternative manner then standing in line but whatever that accommodation is it needs to keep whomever has the DAS or GAC from getting on the ride faster then the standby time. That is, by any literal definition of the word, not equal. It is better. Having a system that has better anything is what draws people to scam it.

So you disagree with the way Universal Studios handles things? If the wait is 30min or less, you use the Express Pass line. If it's more than 30min, you get a return time stamp. To me, this seems a very good compromise.

And as it stands, the DAS system could very well extend the wait time for those using it to longer than the standby time. If the standby time is 15min, then between waiting in line at a kiosk, walking, waiting for the return time to arrive and then waiting in the FP line (which is RARELY immediate access) the wait will be longer than the standby time.

 

[mrzrich]

My children are disabled but they can wait their turn, they just can't wait in a crowded line so we use FP/FP+. I don't like that people are bashing Disney for being fair and reasonable.

I have said before that I think FP + will help matters greatly, which is why my biggest beef with Disney is that they rolled out these changes BEFORE allowing everyone to participate in FP+. My resort gets FP + 3 days after I leave. Very frustrating.

 

[FireDancer]

So you disagree with the way Universal Studios handles things? If the wait is 30min or less, you use the Express Pass line. If it's more than 30min, you get a return time stamp. To me, this seems a very good compromise.

And as it stands, the DAS system could very well extend the wait time for those using it to longer than the standby time. If the standby time is 15min, then between waiting in line at a kiosk, walking, waiting for the return time to arrive and then waiting in the FP line (which is RARELY immediate access) the wait will be longer than the standby time.

Doesn't Universal make guests pay for the Express Pass? If so it shouldn't be handed out for free to some and not to others based on disability.

As for the second paragraph, we really won't know until it is implemented. I'm sure Disney will make tweaks to try and keep everything as close to equal as possible. I think the combination of reworking GAC to DAS, enforcing return times, and FP+ will have a big positive impact on fastpass and standby waits but that will become evident in the coming months.

 

[Kay1]

I'm subbing in mostly because of the civilized manner of this debate, but also because I'm truly wondering how they can change up this system in the future.

I unfortunately had to use a GAC in the recent past, but thank God that I'm pretty sure my next trip will be without need for one! I'm so lucky to say that.

I see both sides of this debate - on the one hand, I want to find the PP with the child who has cancer and give her every FP I can pull for the day so her little one can go on any ride they want as many times as they want.

On the other side, access for those with disabilities is supposed to be about equal access, and the currently proposed change would make access even across the board for those with and without disabilities. When I first went to get my first GAC (knew little about them), I genuinely expected something that would let me wait in line virtually and then get in line when my waiting was up. When I found out that wasn't always the case, I was actually surprised. I expected a Six Flags type setup, where I got a return time when I arrived at the ride. With my issues, this would have worked just fine for me.

But then, if you have a child (or adult, honestly) who has a severe sickness or needs to only be at the park for a few hours, the compassionate part of me wants them to get in as much as they can in that time.

I'm not sure what the final answer will be, but I'm hoping that the MBs are going to help. Maybe there will be a way to "program" people's bands that have a time limit, and they can use FP lines within a time frame - say mom comes up with her sick son and says "we won't make it past three hours because we need to return to the hotel for treatments" and they can code the band with three hours worth of FP line access or something... But if mom comes up and says her son will be lashing at others in line or too stimulated, the system works the same and they get a return time equal to the lines. I guess that would be abused too; but maybe something could work. Or maybe you can state when you book your trip that you're traveling with someone disabled, and they could set you up with a few additional FP times. Again, I understand that could be abused as well.

I hope that good things come out of this change in the long run, but I think that the first people "testing" this system are going to have to work out some kinks and possibly raise some stinks.

It's a shame we have to have "sides", isn't it? I think there are more than two sides and many ways to look at this thing. I really like to believe most of us are on the side of common decency. The scammers and, as the OP said, those who are "hating on the disabled" are not, IMO, on our side.

I believe it's too soon to freak out about the DAS, just yet. Later, maybe. OTOH, I'm totally baffled by some people who are carrying on like they just won the 40-million dollar lottery because the GAC is becoming the DAS. They seem to feel vindicated regarding an genuine belief that they were "lied to" about GAC. Some kind of "Board" thing, I guess. Not important.

I can see you're one of the first one trying things out and I hope things work out for you and that you are pleasantly surprised - Justin, too - and that you fill us all in on what's going on.

 

[Kay1]

I have said before that I think FP + will help matters greatly, which is why my biggest beef with Disney is that they rolled out these changes BEFORE allowing everyone to participate in FP+. My resort gets FP + 3 days after I leave. Very frustrating.

Right. Bad show, Disney.

 

[MrRomance]

That is one of the most honest and frank posts I've seen about the issue. Kudos to you.

I really do think the new system will do a good job of giving an alternative to guests who can't wait in lines without giving them an advantage over other guests who can.

Thank you - I just call it as I live it and see it!

I have said before that I think FP + will help matters greatly, which is why my biggest beef with Disney is that they rolled out these changes BEFORE allowing everyone to participate in FP+. My resort gets FP + 3 days after I leave. Very frustrating.

FP or FP+ it doesn't matter as far as I can see. FP can work just as well as FP+ the only difference is you can "choose" times with FP+ but we have never had an issue making FP work. Unfortunately, you've been unlucky and I understand that it is frustrating. I actually agree with you that waiting until FP+ was rolled out rather than making changes during the testing process is probably not the best idea. Sadly there will always be people who are caught in the cross over and I'm sorry to hear you are one of them. I actually thought we would be be on the FP system when we go next month but we found out a few days ago that we we have the FP+ option.

My main point is that I believe in equality. Preferential treatment is not equality and it has the effect of "dumbing down" disabled people. I don't want my children to be viewed as completely incapable and requiring preferential treatment. They have their difficulties but they are NOT completely useless. When people demand or complain that disabled people should be given preferential not equal treatment, it feels to me like that is making the disabled person into a complete incompetent.

My kids are precious and they can do what anyone else can do they just have to do it in a different way. They can wait 90 minutes, they just can't wait 90 minutes in a crowded line. So, you pick up a ticket or card or FP and go do something else and come back to it. Too many people view disabled people as being less able than they are because of things like this.

 

[Hej2222]

I have said before that I think FP + will help matters greatly, which is why my biggest beef with Disney is that they rolled out these changes BEFORE allowing everyone to participate in FP+. My resort gets FP + 3 days after I leave. Very frustrating.

I totally agree with that. We are staying off site (planned our stay way in advance and cannot chnage to on site now) and we will not have access to FP+ in November. If DAS was implemented after everyone had access to FP+, it would make a huge difference for us and many others who were using GAC.

Regarding Universal Express Pass price it is about $69 per person per day for our dates. At least there are options at Universal for everyone: you can get Attraction Assistance Pass with return times, you can buy Express Pass if you can afford it and feel it is worth it, or you can stay on property and get it free. Disney is introducing such a significant change as DAS before they fully rolled out FP+ for everyone, before they know how it is really working. Disney is not giving people with disabilities who will not have access to FP+ any other options except waiting for the ride and hoping for availability of regular FP. I would pay for extra access if it was available for reasonable price (not in a VIP tour range), also for FP+ if free was not available to off site guests.

 

[disney david]

I have said before that I think FP + will help matters greatly, which is why my biggest beef with Disney is that they rolled out these changes BEFORE allowing everyone to participate in FP+. My resort gets FP + 3 days after I leave. Very frustrating.

They have been testing fast pass plus since aug they held back making changes to the gac since aug. they was supposed to make changes in aug but kept delaying it to I guess they had to pull the gun. Of all of you for one second thing Disney execs didn't have a hard time doing this they did look how long it took them to come up with it. Is it perfect no should everyone try it before crying and complaining yes just like autism speaks says parent should try it first and see how it goes. When they replaced sap I think that what it was called their was up roar but ten people tried it and got use to gac. I know it hard for change people hate change but sometimes change is good and sometimes it not and when it not you can let Disney know. But we are all fighting and no one knows for sure how it will go you all my find it to help more then the gac. then again you my not but all you can do for now is wait and try it. I am sure their will be more info being out out their as wdw I think will have to have different policy's then dl as to how many days the pass is good for. Disney got help form organizations it not like they went and said here wait we are going to do and that it. So you have to guess organizations like autism speaks would let disney know what worked and what didn't it be foolish for Disney not to listen. So they took that into consideration when they planned it. What other company you know would go as far as Disney to try and come up with a program to help guest with disabilities enjoy the park. Their taking heat no matter what they do if they leave it then they get heat for the abuse they change it now their getting heat for the change. Everyone needs to take a step back breath and say it be okay Disney has been and always will be the best place for disabilities they will make changes if they feel they need to. Their not going to willfully ruin your vacation if you get their and it dose not work fork guest relations and talk to them.

 

[*NikkiBell*]

I just wanted to pop in here and remind everyone that this is a sensitive issue for many. Please respect each other and remember that there is someone on the other side of the computer screen; that person may live a life that is very different from yours and he/she's feelings should be taken into consideration when responding directly. Once again, this thread will remain open as long as DIS Posting Guidelines are not broken.