Guess what they are planning on replacing the fireworks and parade with?

[Walt's Frozen Head]

I am no half-empty glass person. Clever epithets sometimes disguise the truth.

Indeed.

Whether one sees the glass as half-full or half-empty makes no difference when one is deciding whether or not to purchase what is unquestionably half a glass.

Particularly when so many people were originally hooked by the old-style Disney meniscus protruding up over the top of the glass...

-WFH

 

[Lesley]

Just to back up here a moment.....one question...

Is the average guest having a magical time?

I know a few families who visited WDW in the past couple of years who don't have any interest in returning based on their experiences. Not that they had terrible trips...they enjoyed themselves. But they didn't have any more fun at WDW than they have had on other vacations.....much less expensive vacations, I might add. One even referred to the atmosphere at the MK (as compared to past experiences at the MK) as "chintzy".....and this is the word of someone who could be considered the queen of tacky. Hardly a scientific study....but I've seen it too much to brush it off. There must be others who feel the same way.

So, I guess the next question is...how do you entice these folks back?

 

[roymccoy]

bring back guests once they have decided something is "chintzy" ...and that is to not be "chintzy" anymore. As a matter of fact, now Disney not only has to get new people into the parks (as they have always had to do) but NOW they have to overcome the "chintzy" reputation that they have earned over the last few years. A lot of us on this and other boards have been warning of this backlash for a couple of years, that they were saving a little money right then, but it was going to cost them in the long run and now, unfortunately, we were right. I say unfortunately because I was actually hoping to be wrong because I love Disney but it looks like the deep cuts in all the theme park budgets over the years are causing a perception change out there. I'll admit, Walt's standard is a hard one to live up to and I'll also admit that people will always compare their latest trip experience to their "best trip" and not the norm experience but the cuts that have taken place over the past few years were just plain bad business. When I know, you know, we know that a lot of the cuts were way overboard then THEY should have known, too. They're supposedly the experts on this.

IMHO it was caused by greed and ignorance. They are in danger of ruining a good thing. Remember, Coney Island used to be a New York showplace and a symbol of the greatness of New York. Now it's a broken down seaside carnival. There is no guarantee that Disney will automatically remain an American icon forever...that will take work, good ideas, top notch people, imagination, leadership and MONEY...lot's of money.

Roy

 

[tednvon]

As a bit of a rose colored glasses type when it comes to Disney, I really have watched and listened here to the talk about the slow but sure gutting of the budgets and the attractions....my only real question is how much of this is related to the sour economy and the 9/11 dramatic impact on travel.....Travel is down everywhere and when money is not coming in budgets are cut and services suffer and then attendance is down and money is not coming in and so on and so on in a bad circle.....If Eisner goes or they decide to put the parks back as a major emphasis, what will bring the public back.....or will attendance stay down until the economy turns around and we get farther from 9/11 and memories get short no matter what they do with Enights and hours.....In other words, how much is really bad Disney planning and priorities and how much is bad luck and people just not traveling as far any more....your opinions please....Ted

 

[Lesley]

Well, the families I was speaking of previously visited in the late 90's....so we're not talking about post 9/11 or economic downturn. I think that says a whole lot. The repercussions are just being seen now.

I won't deny that many may be staying away because of fear or economic difficulties.....but I don't think its the whole story.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Lesley, perhaps those folks can't be brought into the fold. Remember Disney was NEVER for everybody. My parents loved 'The Wonderful World of Disney' TV show but to this day they just don't "get" the parks, nor does my 52 year old brother & his family. They know we love them but honestly they just don't care.

Even in its heyday DL still only appealed to a relative few. It was located in California, it was one park. Disney was hardly anything above or beyond in the eyes of most. Yes Walt produced quality and the quality was appeciated by an ever growing array of movie going, tv watching & DL visiting fans but it was still relatively small potatoes compared to the breadth & scope of the Company that Eisner has led Disney to.

So the kunundrum seems to be does Disney scale back and present quality, I mean perfect quality as Walt would have done and impress the relatively few or does it work on repairing the bumps in the road that Eisner has steered the car onto?

I think in regard to this type of offering (the character extravaganza) it's quite obvious which road they're taking - which in turn leads right back to the 'is it tme for Eisner to go' argument?

Personally, I think we need to remember that Disney is MUCH bigger than the good ole days and the quality level of each and every undertakng just is not possble (or at least practical) but on the other hand does every single decision HAVE to be based on the 'masses mentality?' I don't think so but it apears Disney currently disagrees.

 

[Lesley]

But, Mr. Pirate, my original question was...

Is the average guest really having a magical time?

You also mentioned the possibility of these folks just not being the kind who "get it". Well, at least one of them got it at one time.....took her kids to WDW when they were young and has sent them all to WDW for their honeymoons.

Personally I feel there is more going on here than a few folks who just don't get it. I suspect that perhaps for the last several years some folks have not been having very magical vacations. I just wonder what others have been seeing....trying to see what others' observations have been.

Or are there suddenly a whole lot more people who "don't get it?"

 

[Peter Pirate]

I'm not arguing with you Lesley, I just think that the causes are probably very multi-faceted. Certainly you are correct that Disney is turning people off (more than a few) with their current modus. I think the problem is evaluating the who, what where, why & when of the problem and having a good long term plan...which they don't seem to have anymore...

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Either way, as your lord seige has pointed out in his thread dedicated to this type of brainstorm, this type process will likely be both interesting and noticed.

He intimated that it may be interesting, but I gotta tell you Scoop, I’ve read his post(s) very carefully and I’ve found that the only reference to them ‘noticing’ was yours!! You were the one that said:

Maybe I am the pie in the sky guy here, but I truly believe (and know) that Disney types observe the comments around boards like these.

I do think you are pie in the sky. And I couldn’t find any reference from AV that they think anything about these internet discussions (except maybe laugh at them)!! I’m afraid my cynical eye doesn’t see any pie up there at all!

p.s. as for not "getting" the difference between WDW management and Burbank, hey, I thought I was the one who pointed that out...oh well...anyway.

Yes you were! When nobody really cared, you insisted that we hurl accolades at the crumbs WDW management gave us instead of deriding the morons in Burbank! In my mind that distinction should never had entered these discussions. It makes no difference whatsoever what ‘group’ doesn’t get it and what ‘group’ does. The bottom line is that top management clearly does not “get it”, and until they do, we’re screwed!!

 

[raidermatt]

In other words, how much is really bad Disney planning and priorities and how much is bad luck and people just not traveling as far any more....

Ahhhhh, the $64 Billion question....

I suspect its both.

Clearly, if the overall economy were still booming, WDW would be drawing more people than it actually is.

However, there are indications, especially in California, that overall toursim is recovering faster than Disney is recovering. A recent report from the State tourism board showed that tourism into California is actually UP this year over last. Yet DLR is experiencing decreased demand.

Orlando is a little harder to get a read on, since WDW is a much bigger piece of the tourism pie in the area than DLR is in SoCal. Disney has said bookings are down 10%, and that's off of 2001, which wasn't a banner year even before 9/11.

It certainly seems as though Disney is suffering more than other destinations, so its doubtful that the economy is the complete answer.

Its funny how everybody looks good when the economy is strong. But when things take a downturn, weaknesses are exposed...

 

[the Legend]

Anyone thought of using this survey opportunity to drive things home to Disney -

- Reinstate EE at MK at least or give me more reasons to stay on-site (although I always have bar one time)
- Devise an all-day or all-stay FP system like FOTL at Universal Hotels if only for Deluxe hotels. It is the only reason we stay at Universal.
- Ensure the upkeep of the parks are to the standards Walt had set
- Fix the transport issues (classic example WL/FW/MK) and provide a better solution long time (the long rumoured Monorail extension)
- Spread the character meals eg Princess breakfast was good example in the right direction and reinstate the villians meal!
- Learn the lessons from DisneySea and give the people the same or better. Disneyland/WDW is no longer the bewnchmark for Disney (10 million during a recession, somebody did something right)
- Listen to your guests ... we may not always be right but we know what we want. And if enough of us say so then there must be something to it.
- Fill the gap for the teen and young adult set (so far done by Universal). Keep the Kids at WDW and you keep the family at WDW.
- Utilise your stable (ABC, Movies, Music etc) for maximum returns (Do they remember what the crowds were like for whos line at DLR?)
- In these times, a return to a visible security presence beside the entrance would be great.
- Recognise frequent visitors with better programs beside DC and DVP.
- We want to recognise great work by your employees. Make sure we can identify them all.
- You are not Six Flags. You are a destination Park so work with other of that locale to make it an even more attractive place to visit (example the red bus line at Anahiem)

Paul Pressler, call me, OK?

 

[wahoo]

Am I the only parent out there who finds these character meets a huge pain? I don't mind the occasional character autograph line for my kids, but to stand there for an hour, going from line to line, sounds like a nightmare experience. It certainly doesn't compare to the magical feeling of the nighttime parades. Plus, the parades give the kids (and dh) a chance to sit down, have a snack or two and just relax after the mayhem of a day at the park. I'm sure that everyone's mood is going to be lovely, dragging their crabby kids from line to line, after running in the parks all day.
I guess it requires less headcount to have 100 characters out there than to run a parade. The beancounters have taken over disney.

 

[Safari Steve]

100 Characters + 100 greeters + coordinators... that's more than 200 people... Hatter or Tiggerman, if you're out there, maybe you could compare that number to the amount required for a parade. Am I correct in assuming from my observations that it's comparable?

And again, please everyone re-read the full quote from WDWMagic.com. This is not a "replace the fireworks/nighttime parade" issue, this is a "Which works best during the slowest time of the year and in either case we're spending more on nighttime entertainment than we would have been" issue.