Guantanamo may shut, Republicans split

[Lebjwb]

As I study what you have posted I see that you and President George W Bush have something in common -you both tend to speak in generalizations at some inopportune times. All things considered, President Bush is a man of integrity who has done much for our nation. I am glad to have a leader as truthful and dedicated as the one we have.

Citing reports that don't exsist isn't a generalization, it's a lie.

So much for Bu$h as a "truthful and dedicated leader"

Try again.

 

[Teejay32]

President Bush proclaimed that a report by leading economists concluded that the economy would grow by 3.3 percent in 2003 if his tax cut proposals were adopted. No such report exists." Gordan Livingston, 06.03.03

If not, it was a heck of a good guess. First hit on google: Friday, September 26, 2003, Economy grew at better-than-expected 3.3 percent rate By Martin Crutsinger / Associated Press

Bush: "By the year 2042, the entire [social security] system would be exhausted and bankrupt."

In what the BBC calls "highly unusual," a State of the Union Speech was interrupted by a chorus of "No's," booing, and heckles from some of the members of Congress in attendance. This happened immediately after the above Bush lie. As Shields mentioned on the PBS wrap-up, and as Brooks concurred, if adjustments are not made, by 2042, as they have been made before, 3/4 of the funds promised would still be available. The entire system would neither be exhausted nor bankrupt. -- Politex, 02.03.05

I like their attitude. We're not bankrupt, we're getting a paycheck and we can pay almost 3/4 of our bills. All of us thirtysomethings are so relieved.

I think "lies" should have the characteristic of being not true. Maybe it's just me.

 

[ThAnswr]

I'm not a Republican.

And I'd say you're letting your distaste for the man and his policies cloud your judgment. The facts do not support the assertion that Bush has been lying -- at least not conclusively so. I admit there's a possibility he's been lying. But it's extremely unlikely, IMO.

I'm not ignorant of the facts. I know them better than most, particularly where Iraq is concerned. I have seen nothing to indicate that anything other than good faith errors were made. You obviously disagree. That's your perogative. But that doesn't entitle one to pass off as factual information that is clearly opinion.

So, at a public engagement, when Bush claims there have been 400 terrorist arrests with 200 of them convicted, and the reality is 39 have been convicted, that isn't a lie to you?

Several possiblilties present themselves:

1) Bush is lying

2) Bush is misinformed.................AGAIN.

Bush is either a liar OR he's incompetent. There's also another possiblity: he isn't driving the turnip truck, he's just a passenger in the back seat and that possiblity shoots out of the saddle the rightie belief that Bush is a strong leader on top of the situation.

BTW, you are not a Republican now. You were until they got so looney you moved on.

 

[Teejay32]

This is being done in your name, and on your behalf, by the Bush administration. Personally, I say "No, thank you" to those gifts. Of course, YMMV.

Those are CIA stories. I think they all have criminal tendencies, and if you want to start a campaign for CIA transparency, I'll join up today.

 

[Lebjwb]

I'm not a Republican.

And I'd say you're letting your distaste for the man and his policies cloud your judgment. The facts do not support the assertion that Bush has been lying -- at least not conclusively so. I admit there's a possibility he's been lying. But it's extremely unlikely, IMO.

I'm not ignorant of the facts. I know them better than most, particularly where Iraq is concerned. I have seen nothing to indicate that anything other than good faith errors were made. You obviously disagree. That's your perogative. But that doesn't entitle one to pass off as factual information that is clearly opinion.

The facts do not support the assertion that Bush has been lying -- at least not conclusively so.

Bu$h using non-exsisting reports to back his assertions isn't lying?
How strange.

I have seen nothing to indicate that anything other than good faith errors were made.

So he's not lying, he's just incompetent. Now that's the type of President I can really get behind and support! Particuarly when that incompetance has killed 1702 US troops. Good job!

But that doesn't entitle one to pass off as factual information that is clearly opinion

If the articles I cited were opinion and not fact then please provide evidence to the contrary. I'll wait.

I know them better than most, particularly where Iraq is concerned.

Glad to see you have such a high opinion of yourself.

 

[ThAnswr]

Al Sharpton... Amnesty International... Howard Dean... Who is going to speak for the leftists next? Michael Jackson?

Yada, yada, yada. More rightie cocktail party talk.

 

[Lebjwb]

As usual, I guess you can't be civil. Thanks for helping to make my point.

Yawn.

 

[ThAnswr]

Those are CIA stories. I think they all have criminal tendencies, and if you want to start a campaign for CIA transparency, I'll join up today.

I'm not following you here. The CIA isn't under the control of the Bush administration? Didn't Bush just appoint Porter Goss director of the CIA? Are you saying the CIA is running a clandestine operation with a fleet of planes and destinations all over the world, without the knowledge and consent of the Bush administration?

I'm confused here. Help me out on this, please.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

Hey! Look what I found!

http://www.detnews.com/2004/editorial/0408/27/a09-255537.htm

ETA: Apparently the Bush tax cut deserves a bit more credit

 

[Lebjwb]

If not, it was a heck of a good guess. First hit on google: Friday, September 26, 2003, Economy grew at better-than-expected 3.3 percent rate By Martin Crutsinger / Associated Press



I like their attitude. We're not bankrupt, we're getting a paycheck and we can pay almost 3/4 of our bills. All of us thirtysomethings are so relieved.

I think "lies" should have the characteristic of being not true. Maybe it's just me.

Bu$h cited a report that didn't exsist...that's a lie and the argument I was making.

Bu$h lied about SS being bankrupt.

He's a liar...that was my point and you haven't stated anything to the contrary.

 

[jrydberg]

So, at a public engagement, when Bush claims there have been 400 terrorist arrests with 200 of them convicted, and the reality is 39 have been convicted, that isn't a lie to you?

Several possiblilties present themselves:

1) Bush is lying

2) Bush is misinformed.................AGAIN.

Bush is either a liar OR he's incompetent. There's also another possiblity: he isn't driving the turnip truck, he's just a passenger in the back seat and that possiblity shoots out of the saddle the rightie belief that Bush is a strong leader on top of the situation.

BTW, you are not a Republican now. You were until they got so looney you moved on.

Well, that's correct that I was a Republican until they got so looney I moved on But I guess my point is I'm certainly not a Bush Republican. I disagree with him on more than a few issues (may not seem like it since Iraq is the topic we're usually discussing, but it's true).

As for those figures, it's political spin engaged in by all in Washington DC. The statement he made is technically correct, but made in a way that makes it appear he and his administration were more successful than they really were.

Based on that, no, I don't consider him a liar.

 

[Teejay32]

He's a liar...that was my point and you haven't stated anything to the contrary.

I haven't? oh, okay.

Are you saying the CIA is running a clandestine operation with a fleet of planes and destinations all over the world, without the knowledge and consent of the Bush administration?

If you're expecting a fleet of 747s with a CIA logo on them, no. That they can ship individual prisoners around the world at will, sure. Did you find the CIA blameless all through the Clinton Administration or something?

 

[Lebjwb]

Hey! Look what I found!

http://www.detnews.com/2004/editorial/0408/27/a09-255537.htm

ETA: Apparently the Bush tax cut deserves a bit more credit

Perhaps...but citing non-exsisting reports is still lying.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

Thank you for conceding the point on tax cuts

 

[Lebjwb]

The statement he made is technically correct, but made in a way that makes it appear he and his administration were more successful than they really were.

v. lied, ly·ing, (lng) lies
v. intr.
1.)To present false information with the intention of deceiving.

2.)To convey a false image or impression: Appearances often lie.

 

[Lebjwb]

Thank you for conceding the point on tax cuts

Hello? Anyone home?

Tax cuts aren't the point, it was Bu$h citing non-exsisting reports.

But you keep on trying to deflect the issue, 'cause you sure as hell can't debate it.

 

[Lebjwb]

I haven't? oh, okay.

Nope.

 

[jrydberg]

v. lied, ly·ing, (lng) lies
v. intr.
1.)To present false information with the intention of deceiving.

2.)To convey a false image or impression: Appearances often lie.

If that's your standard, then everyone in the Administration, Congress, anyone in politics is a liar (as are most in the corporate world). That's fine if you apply that across the board, but in my experience, you don't. You just apply it to Bush.

To me, lying is that first definition -- deliberately presenting false information. That is not what happened. In this specific case, the information presented is factually accurate.

 

[Lebjwb]

I haven't? oh, okay.



If you're expecting a fleet of 747s with a CIA logo on them, no. That they can ship individual prisoners around the world at will, sure. Did you find the CIA blameless all through the Clinton Administration or something?

DING,DING,DING

There it is.......... Clinton!

Hey ThAnswr...is this todays winner?

Can you tell us about all the fabulous prizes TeeJay has won today?

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Bu$h cited a report that didn't exsist...that's a lie and the argument I was making.

Bu$h lied about SS being bankrupt.

He's a liar...that was my point and you haven't stated anything to the contrary.

You can disagree with Bush's SS prediction (2042), but everyone knows that the ponzi scheme that SS has become can't go on forever if we don't adjust funding, benefits, or it's rate of return. If you can only pay 3/4 the bills (and liabilities exceed assets), you can either keep borrowing or admit there's a problem. How are you defining bankruptcy?