Guantanamo may shut, Republicans split

[Charade]

If after 3 years you can't any info from these people, you're either doing something wrong or they don't have any info.

That would be true except we don't know (and they probably wouldn't tell the public) if they aren't still giving up good intel. It might seem hard to believe that after 3 years they're getting any fresh intel but we also know that a lot of plans AQ had were developed over years so it's possible that as new intel comes in they can corroborate it with data (or extract new data) from these guys.

 

[wvrevy]

Haven't we read were some that were released had been recaptured doing the same thing they were before? Maybe that was the plan as they might have new information.

I'm on the fence as to what to do with the detainees. I do not have a problem with some of the methods of interrogation though. I can't imagine what kind of fresh intelligence data they can provide being isolated and out of circulation for 3 years.

I really do believe (other than the lengthy incarceration) they have been treated humanly except for in a few isolated cases. But remember, it's in the AQ handbook to bring false charges against your captors. They know well the power of the media and use it to their advantage.

I think it comes down that what we each consider inhuman torture and interrogation.

Heck, sleep deprivation could be considered torture by some. But I don't.

Thanks for the serious answer

Ok, so do we just ignore the Amnesty International report, then ? If it were our people there and we read a report such as that, wouldn't we want a full investigation, rather than having the leader of the country involved just blow it off ? I mean, it seems to me that the administration is simply doing with this report the same thing they do with unfavorable domestic press reports...they attack the reporter to distract from the report (see the latest allegations that the Amnesty International report is "endangering US men and women in uniform.").

As for sleep deprivation being a form of torture...you did know that it was possible to die from lack of sleep, right ? Sleep isn't a luxury, it's something our bodies absolutely require in order to function properly. Keep someone awake long enough - and I'm not saying that this is something our troops do or have done - and they will simply drop over dead.

I think all "us Democrats" are really asking is that a proper investigation be done to either disprove - definitively - the allegations or to find the problem and resolve it. In fact, since it's obvious that this is an issue that is looked at by people on the other side of this fight, I'd say we - the US - should insist on international participation in the investigation. That would make it that much more difficult for anyone to say that we are hiding things.

 

[Teejay32]

Ok, so do we just ignore the Amnesty International report, then?

You don't have to, but I do. I'm usually pretty good at seeing both sides of any issue brought up here, but this "torture" one I don't get. I also wouldn't stand in the way of closing it, and obviously there's an effort underway to shut it down...if not by the Democrats, then who?

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

In case y'all didn't know, GOP-leaning person here . I am troubled by what I read about SOME treatment of detainees at Gitmo. The accusations (?) of certain blood being rubbed on faces of detainees? That seems a bit barbaric to me. I also don't get the whole "some urine blew through a vent onto a guy and his Koran" thing. Seems likely that some jailers were having a little fun... but these things happen in a war.
The one thing that counters all that stuff is the image of heads being cut off by Islamic terrorists. That and the descration of corpses at Fallujah pretty much trumps whatever indignity might have happened to a handful of detainees at Gitmo. The cutting off of heads, car bombing, etc. must end... and it must NEVER come to US soil.

Regardinf Amnesty International, I simply do not trust that they are a credible organization. JMO

 

[ThAnswr]

That would be true except we don't know (and they probably wouldn't tell the public) if they aren't still giving up good intel. It might seem hard to believe that after 3 years they're getting any fresh intel but we also know that a lot of plans AQ had were developed over years so it's possible that as new intel comes in they can corroborate it with data (or extract new data) from these guys.

There's also the possibility that Guantanamo prison was another half-assed idea by the Bush administration that was created in the heat of the moment and hasn't yielded the kinds of results Bush and crew dreamed of. It's not as if this group doesn't have a history of ideas that have not panned out and this bunch is also more than willing to stretch the truth. Remember, Bush and his group have already lied about the successes of the Patriot act.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/11/AR2005061100381.html

If Bush and crew could find a way to shut down Guantanamo while retaining some shred of credibility, it'll be gone tomorrow.

Guantanamo was never needed and has been a blot on the good name of the US. It's time to shut down Guantanamo.

 

[Lebjwb]

How would you suggest we get info from them?

Hey...Neo-Con.....answer this;

With thinking like yours, there's no difference between us and the terrorists.

So why the hell bother bringing that type of ideology to any other country?

Saddam uses torture, Bu$h uses torture...and you wonder why they're blowing us up?

If you condone that type of action (and you have), you're no better than they are.

This is America and we are better than that and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Teejay32]

You might be shocked at the kind of treatment I'd condone for al-qaida prisoners. (Then again you might not.) What I want to know is what plan for them do the better-than-me people have in mind.

 

[Lebjwb]

You might be shocked at the kind of treatment I'd condone for al-qaida prisoners. (Then again you might not.) What I want to know is what plan for them do the better-than-me people have in mind.

Think Nuremberg. If we could do it for the Nazi's we could do it for Al-Qaida. Punish the guilty, release the innocent. Everyone should be granted their day in court. Unless, of course, you think this admnistration... that you support... should continue to act like a pack of Nazi's.

How do you expect to bring democracy to other countries if you act like a terrorist yourself?

Is that the example America should be setting?

 

[rcyannacci]

Seems likely that some jailers were having a little fun... but these things happen in a war.

This type of statement uttered by an American is really scary to me. This is the type of thinking that has led to many of the atrocities of the 20th century. Shame on us if we head down that path.

 

[Bobbles]

Perhaps we could use some form of religious conversion to Christianity?
Teach them the "error of their ways".

 

[Charade]

Perhaps we could use some form of religious conversion to Christianity?
Teach them the "error of their ways".

Been there, done that. Didn't work out all that well.

 

[Planogirl]

These people need their day in court. The thought of even one innocent person sitting in that place is downright creepy to me. After that, we should treat the guilty humanely simply because that's what we do.

 

[Teejay32]

Think Nuremberg. If we could do it for the Nazi's we could do it for Al-Qaida. Punish the guilty, release the innocent. Everyone should be granted their day in court. Unless, of course, you think this admnistration... that you support... should continue to act like a pack of Nazi's.

How do you expect to bring democracy to other countries if you act like a terrorist yourself?

Is that the example America should be setting?

I don't think there's any way to effectively prosecute average jihadis under US or international law, without some kind of thought-crime legislation like hate speech. And Nuremberg was a military tribunal. These people don't belong in our courts, our prisons, or in our territory; our soldiers should not have to babysit them, our citizens should not have to feed them and provide them with religious material. They're the enemy of darn near everyone in the civilized world, and that's the example I think America should be setting by treating them as such.

 

[dcentity2000]

The Republicans may be split, but one thing's fer sure - the Democrats are all for releasing the terroists back into the world...

So, it seems, are half of the Republicans...

These people need their day in court. The thought of even one innocent person sitting in that place is downright creepy to me. After that, we should treat the guilty humanely simply because that's what we do.

Exactly. How would you feel if a member of your family was taken away to a prison camp set up so it was outside the Geneva convention, a place condemned by every human rights group in the world and they weren't allowed a say in court?



Rich::

 

[Lebjwb]

And Nuremberg was a military tribunal

So what?

These people don't belong in our courts, our prisons, or in our territory; our soldiers should not have to babysit them, our citizens should not have to feed them and provide them with religious material. They're the enemy of darn near everyone in the civilized world, and that's the example I think America should be setting by treating them as such.

You advocate becoming what you abhor.

 

[toto2]

Regardinf Amnesty International, I simply do not trust that they are a credible organization. JMO

Amisty international is one of the best organization: there reserche is usually exellent and goes very deep

It started in 1961 and had there first political prisonner relaese was a priest from the Czech republic .

Go to there web site to have an informed opinion !

http://www.amnesty.org/

These people are proffessional of Human rights , not mere amateurs !

Nobody know for sure what is happening in Guantanamo. If the stuff that happened in Abugraibe was done in almost full day light , one can only imagine what is happening in a place that nobody can see or visit

 

[Teejay32]

uh, no. I'm in no danger of becoming an indoctrinated Islamic zealot. I am concerned that any legal proceedings will become platforms for them, with which to put the US on trial instead. We can't prosecute them here, the only reason we're picking them up is to gain useful information out of them and remove them from circulation. This has become such a controversial issue that it makes more sense to question them in the field, and then release them to their local authorities.

 

[dcentity2000]

You advocate becoming what you abhor.

But reducing our civil liberties and imprisoning without trial is exactly what the terrorists don't want! They want transparent truth, democratic process, freedom for the individ...u...al...

Er...

I appear to have all of that the wrong way round



Rich::

 

[Planogirl]

I think that holding someone endlessly without charging them with a crime is a sad state of affairs. It's just simply not what the United States is all about! At least that's what I believe.

 

[ThAnswr]

I don't think there's any way to effectively prosecute average jihadis under US or international law, without some kind of thought-crime legislation like hate speech.

Well then if all you're doing is talking about jihad, you haven't committed a crime.

As far as thought-crime legislation, shh, the Bush administration doesn't need another half-assed idea.

And Nuremberg was a military tribunal.

Duh! Weren't these people supposed to be tried by military tribunal? Nuremberg would be the perfect template of how to conduct a military tribunal. But, the Bush administration isn't happy with that example. They've got to re-invent the wheel.

These people don't belong in our courts, our prisons, or in our territory; our soldiers should not have to babysit them, our citizens should not have to feed them and provide them with religious material. They're the enemy of darn near everyone in the civilized world, and that's the example I think America should be setting by treating them as such.

Here's an intriguing question: How do you know so much about what's going on in Guantanamo? Where are you getting your information? Who are your sources? Maybe we ought to have an investigation to find the mole you have in Guantanamo?