Grandparent rights in a family adoption

[gwynne]

OP, I think the best thing you can do is talk to a professional about your concerns. They may be able to help you find a solution.
I realize you have the right to do as you please as a parent. But, it sounds like this situation is complicated, and maybe you would be best helped by giving all the facts to a counselor. Let them help you sort things out.
FWIW, I often find middle ground solutions are the best, if they are an option.

And, after reading through this thread, I will add that I would never use use someone's "attendance record" at family events as a means to judge their sincerity, integrity, interest or lack thereof.

 

[Tiggeroo]

If the child is not unsafe I would be hard pressed to severely limit time. Imagine knowing you have a grandchild and having loved them for a year or more and then suddenly rarely being able to see them. You would continually be heart broken over it. You can put limits in place to protect the child but you should find a way to make it work out.

 

[cabanafrau]

I don't normally promote stalker behavior but I'd make an exception for this case. If I were the OP I'd be tempted to drop my daughter off for their visit and then sit and wait somewhere out of sight to see if they take her anywhere or if someone else is coming to their house to see the child. If that is what's going on, then you'd know their motivation behind wanting private visitation and would have concrete evidence for ceasing future visits. On the other hand, we don't know how messy the circumstances were surrounding the adoption and it's possible the bio-grandparents just don't like, or want to be around, certain family members, possibly including the OP. Perhaps that's the reason they decline invitations to family functions. (Although you'd think they'd suck it up if seeing the child was that important to them.) Lastly, the issue of them being deemed unfit would be very worrisome to me. If it were due to something like financial instability, fine, no big deal. If it were something more serious then I wouldn't be allowing unsupervised, or possibly any, visits in the first place. OP, you lived this situation, you must have some inkling for why they were deemed unfit. (Not that you're expected to share it here.)

I don't agree with the surveillance plan you've outlined, however the point you made about the grandparents being deemed unfit for placement is a very good one. Since this is a family situation it seems like the OP would know a great deal about this child's birth family's situation, however that's not guaranteed. The fact that this is family also means that OP might not be as familiar with the process as if they were approaching it purely from the foster care system and may not realize how significant the unsuitability designation may in fact be.

The only reason that wouldn't have me mistrusting these people would be if OP knew they had medical issues that precluded their ability to pass background checks and home study to take placement. Barring that, I would strongly recommend OP seriously reconsider allowing unsupervised access to her child.

Common reasons for family to be deemed unsuitable include health, criminal background of member(s) of the household, not enough space in the home for the child to have an appropriate bedroom.

 

[MINNIEsotanice]

OP, would you be okay with sharing how old your daughter is now?

She is 3. Been with us 2 years.

 

[wilkeliza]

She is 3. Been with us 2 years.

Awe she is so little. I just can't imagine what you are going through OP. It must be hard and I can only imagine it is going to get more difficult as she gets older.

I do believe you should look at the circumstances of her being given up for adoption and if it was as some have said why grandma and grandpa were deemed unfit. Also speak with either her child advocate (assuming she was assigned one) to see if they can shed some light. Also talk to them and try to figure something out. Once DD heads off to school I imagine the alone time will get harder to schedule and it is better to have a game plan now then deal with it later.

I am not against grandparents for family members having alone time but when people start demanding it and it is the only time they see the child all sorts of red flags go off for me but I fully admit that could be from what happened to me as a little kid.

What does DD say about what happens with them? 3 year olds usually aren't that great at lying.

 

[MINNIEsotanice]

Awe she is so little. I just can't imagine what you are going through OP. It must be hard and I can only imagine it is going to get more difficult as she gets older.

I do believe you should look at the circumstances of her being given up for adoption and if it was as some have said why grandma and grandpa were deemed unfit. Also speak with either her child advocate (assuming she was assigned one) to see if they can shed some light. Also talk to them and try to figure something out. Once DD heads off to school I imagine the alone time will get harder to schedule and it is better to have a game plan now then deal with it later.

I am not against grandparents for family members having alone time but when people start demanding it and it is the only time they see the child all sorts of red flags go off for me but I fully admit that could be from what happened to me as a little kid.

What does DD say about what happens with them? 3 year olds usually aren't that great at lying.

She tells me they do things that I would think they are doing. Which is good. There has been a lot of good advise from everyone on this thread. So thank you.

 

[Wishing on a star]

WOW... 3 years old... That is the absolute CUTEST!!!!

OP, I think you have the answers you need here.
I really do not think that there is any chance that they have 'rights'.
Either somebody that you worked with to get the adoption completed, and also perhaps also VERY helpful, might be a good contact/counselor at an experience and reputable adoption agency. From what I understand, some who have adopted found the people at their adoption agency much more helpful than any agency employee when it comes to experience and counseling and advice re: these personal adoption issues.

Any continued visitation, contact, relationship should be what YOU are comfortable with. Personally, I would not be comfortable leaving my adorable and precious and impressionable/vulnerable toddler with all of the unknowns, and the circumstances you describe.

If these are good people, and your daughter might benefit in some way from continuing a relationship with them... If the reasons that they did not seek custody are that they simply could not care for and provide for the child.... ( and NOT that this would allow the bio parents to have continued access....) Then that might be a factor.

Hope this thread has helped....
You are the parent.
You are in the driver's seat!

 

[Wishing on a star]

What does DD say about what happens with them? 3 year olds usually aren't that great at lying.

Actually, at that age, they have a hard time verbalizing any more complex thoughts or feelings. At three years old, kids can still break down and have temper tantrums because of their lack of ability to use good verbal skills.

And, they don't recognise that things are 'right' or 'wrong' the way older children and adults do.

And, also, at this age, children are very impressionable.
Leading comments like... "Tell your mom we had yummy ice-cream sandwiches..." and then "Let's not tell your mom that aunty Mary visited today... it's not that important...." or "Let it be our special secret!" can go a LONG way.

NOT THAT I AM SUGGESTING THAT ANYTHING WRONG IS GOING ON... WE DON'T KNOW THAT AT ALL.... EVERYTHING COULD BE WONDERFUL....

But, this kind of thing is how child abusers get away with what they do... 'grooming', 'leading', taking advantage of how impressionable young children are, etc.

 

[wilkeliza]

Actually, at that age, they have a hard time verbalizing any more complex thoughts or feelings. At three years old, kids can still break down and have temper tantrums because of their lack of ability to use good verbal skills. And, they don't recognise that things are 'right' or 'wrong' the way older children and adults do. And, also, at this age, children are very impressionable. Leading comments like... "Tell your mom we had yummy ice-cream sandwiches..." and then "Let's not tell your mom that aunty Mary visited today... it's not that important...." or "Let it be our special secret!" can go a LONG way. NOT THAT I AM SUGGESTING THAT ANYTHING WRONG IS GOING ON... WE DON'T KNOW THAT AT ALL.... EVERYTHING COULD BE WONDERFUL.... But, this kind of thing is how child abusers get away with what they do... 'grooming', 'leading', taking advantage of how impressionable young children are, etc.

That is all true. I'm just so use to my nephew who will say things like Grandma told me not to tell you mommy but we had ice cream earlier or my favorite was the story I hear of when my DBF was that age. It was his dad's 50th birthday and he walked up to him and just said just so you know there's a surprise party for your birthday. Of course these were not kids who were being "groomed" or really having anything bad happen to them they just didn't understand what a secret was and both were raised that you don't have secrets from mom and dad.

 

[gwynne]

Actually, at that age, they have a hard time verbalizing any more complex thoughts or feelings. At three years old, kids can still break down and have temper tantrums because of their lack of ability to use good verbal skills.

And, they don't recognise that things are 'right' or 'wrong' the way older children and adults do.

And, also, at this age, children are very impressionable.
Leading comments like... "Tell your mom we had yummy ice-cream sandwiches..." and then "Let's not tell your mom that aunty Mary visited today... it's not that important...." or "Let it be our special secret!" can go a LONG way.

NOT THAT I AM SUGGESTING THAT ANYTHING WRONG IS GOING ON... WE DON'T KNOW THAT AT ALL.... EVERYTHING COULD BE WONDERFUL....

But, this kind of thing is how child abusers get away with what they do... 'grooming', 'leading', taking advantage of how impressionable young children are, etc.

That is all true. I'm just so use to my nephew who will say things like Grandma told me not to tell you mommy but we had ice cream earlier or my favorite was the story I hear of when my DBF was that age. It was his dad's 50th birthday and he walked up to him and just said just so you know there's a surprise party for your birthday. Of course these were not kids who were being "groomed" or really having anything bad happen to them they just didn't understand what a secret was and both were raised that you don't have secrets from mom and dad.

Back to OP's situation...The above are examples of some of the many reasons for getting some outside help/counseling. If one tends to imagine the worst, that's not the best for the situation.
A professional will help sift through fears, assist in getting accurate information, and then work with the parents to develop a healthy plan going forward.

 

[North of Mouse]

Yes, and I also find NOTM's comments flaming the OP for not instantly divulging a lot of personal info on a public board (who would!!!) to be really off-base.


Personally, I wonder if this poster is actually a grandmother, and is one like my son's grandmother, who will be offended if anyone suggests that grandparents do not always have rights. Seen it many times.

Wow, now who's making assumptions? For your information, I 'am' a grandmother to 4 wonderful children, have a great relationship with my ds & dd, and have 'never' been denied anything. Does that convince you? Probably not, but doesn't matter. I just know how much they mean to me & dh, and us, to them, and just can't fathom a little girl and her grandparents being denied alone time.

And, no, if you're not a grandparent, you cannot imagine what they mean to you, 'and' will affect your replies.

 

[Hrhpd]

I just 'love' when the OP keeps 'adding' things 'after' you post that 'was not' in the first posting!!! If you want comments, why not put 'pertinent' info in your first post - not wait for 3 pages.

That is quite unfair to the OP.

She did not just throw that information out after 3 pages. She was answering a specific question from a poster asking why the grandparents did not have custody.

The OP's original question was about the legal rights of grandparents. The down and dirty of her situation was not needed for that question.

Naturally, the DIS ran with the story and is now determining whether the grandparents should even have visiting rights.

The OP has been extremely gracious in answering all the personal questions about her situation thrown at her, questions which really have nothing to do with her original question. Alex9179 has tried repeatedly to bring the thread back on track to the legal question to no avail.

Accusing the OP of withholding information and then added it in later is just plain nasty, erroneous and unfair.

 

[Hrhpd]

Wow, now who's making assumptions? For your information, I 'am' a grandmother to 4 wonderful children, have a great relationship with my ds & dd, and have 'never' been denied anything. Does that convince you? Probably not, but doesn't matter. I just know how much they mean to me & dh, and us, to them, and just can't fathom a little girl and her grandparents being denied alone time.

And, no, if you're not a grandparent, you cannot imagine what they mean to you, 'and' will affect your replies.

They are not her grandparents in the eyes of the law.

They are very lucky the OP is gracious enough and cares enough about her daughter to let them have some access. She doesn't have to and there would be nothing the bio grandparents could do about it.

I agree with the posters that have recommended talking to the child's guardian ad litem or their adoption attorney to see if the reason the bio grandparents were deemed unfit would be harmful to their daughter. The OP should be able to at least find out if her child is in danger without the other side to breach confidentiality.

I would expect that if the child was in danger, something would have been put into the adoption that the child could not be alone with the bio grandparents. But as a parent, I would want to know for sure my child was safe.

Follow Alex9179's advice on this thread. She seems experienced and has given very unbiased and to the point answers.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I was beginning to think I was the only one who was not all wrapped up in legal vs enotional ties to the child. If this was my grandchild, I woul dhave moved heaven and Earth to make sure she was with me, but barring that option, i would want as much time as possible. I understand that legally these peopl have not right, but for goodness sakes, they cannot change that they are grandarents, no tin their minds. I know I woul never be able to pretend I was an aunt because legailly, that desigation was made.

I think the OP is being incredibly generous. No way would I let my child have visits alone with people that were deemed not fit to raise her.

And regardless of fitness, they would NOT be known as her grandparents - she already has two sets of grandparents, and that would be all if she were my child.

 

[OurBigTrip]

If the child is not unsafe I would be hard pressed to severely limit time. Imagine knowing you have a grandchild and having loved them for a year or more and then suddenly rarely being able to see them. You would continually be heart broken over it. You can put limits in place to protect the child but you should find a way to make it work out.

The heartbreak of the "grandparents" are a very, very distant second to the best interest of the child, including being able to build their family without the interference of the "grandparents".

 

[OurBigTrip]

Wow, now who's making assumptions? For your information, I 'am' a grandmother to 4 wonderful children, have a great relationship with my ds & dd, and have 'never' been denied anything. Does that convince you? Probably not, but doesn't matter. I just know how much they mean to me & dh, and us, to them, and just can't fathom a little girl and her grandparents being denied alone time.

And, no, if you're not a grandparent, you cannot imagine what they mean to you, 'and' will affect your replies.

They aren't her grandparents. The sooner they get that through their heads, the better off everyone will be.

 

[Tiggeroo]

I think the OP is being incredibly generous. No way would I let my child have visits alone with people that were deemed not fit to raise her.

And regardless of fitness, they would NOT be known as her grandparents - she already has two sets of grandparents, and that would be all if she were my child.

Very harsh. As others with experience have said, sometimes fitness is a legal term that could refer to their age, income levels, home size... It is not necessarily that they are bad people. Also they were the grandparents of that child for at least a year. Being a grandparent is in your heart in spite of legal definition. You don't have to allow them to grandparent, but in the absence of problems it is the kind thing to do. Also, imagine how the child will feel when they come of age and learn that parents chose to cut them out of her life. I would be very sure child is in a safe and nurturing environment and allow more visitation. However, I would insist that some of it was when I could observe. I would tell them they need to participate in some family things and find a way to make them more comfortable with it. Perhaps just have them to dinner twice a month. When a family member adopts a child, rather then a complete stranger it is bound to get complicated.

 

[okeydokey]

They aren't her grandparents. The sooner they get that through their heads, the better off everyone will be.

Well, actually they are her biological grandparents. The OP hasn't said that she is interested in severing all ties with them. She said the little girls knows them as grandparents. Why in the world would you have a problem with that?

 

[JanaDee]

They aren't her grandparents. The sooner they get that through their heads, the better off everyone will be.

They are her grandparents.

 

[alex9179]

I think the OP is being incredibly generous. No way would I let my child have visits alone with people that were deemed not fit to raise her.

And regardless of fitness, they would NOT be known as her grandparents - she already has two sets of grandparents, and that would be all if she were my child.

The heartbreak of the "grandparents" are a very, very distant second to the best interest of the child, including being able to build their family without the interference of the "grandparents".

Hrhpd, thank you for understanding.

OurBigTrip, I know where you're coming from as I've been through a lot with relatives. However, the best interest of the child includes preserving healthy relationships with their biological relatives. Healthy is the key, of course. Sometimes restricting contact is necessary to ensure the child's well-being, but that should not be done out of turn.
OP's daughter considers them grandparents and it does more harm than good to deny her this truth.

Family ties aren't a competition or decided by DNA. That little girl has an emotional connection that will, hopefully, be preserved by the adults in her life. It takes everyone to make it work and, sometimes, sacrifice from the adults. In this case, it may be on the part of the bio GPs. At least until the little girl is older and concerns have been laid to rest.