GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

There’s lots of anger for some who can not control the actions and behaviors of others. It’s a bit scary. IMO

It's far scarier that people can't do the *tiniest* of things, like wearing a mask indoors or when in crowds outside. It's literally the smallest thing. But...freedom. Funny, I remember post 9/11, and I don't remember anyone throwing a fit about having to take off their belts and shoes...throw the laptop through the scanner, etc. We did that, despite the inconvenience, because we all wanted to be safe and move on with our lives. It always felt like we were all in it together.

Now, we have a decent percentage of Americans who aren't buying it. They don't believe the science that we have at the moment. They're not going to play along. And I try to think about the fools out in public throwing fits over having to wear a mask...throwing that same fit in the TSA line in 2002. If they threw a fit, they didn't fly. And that's how the rest of us moved on. We left the lunatics behind. Also, many of us realized that the TSA lines and Air Marshalls and all of that would only do so much to keep us all safe. But, we were all on the same page. And it worked. We picked ourselves up, dusted ourselves off and got back to living.

This time is very different.
 
So, do you wear a mask?

I can tell you in reality, the mask provides more than 1% of extra protection.

So even 1% of extra protection is not worth it to you?

What percentage of extra protection is worth it to you?
Yes I wear a mask when required. I wore one for a large part of today as I spent several hours at the mall and then time at the grocery store.

A Norwegian meta study of existing mask studies placed the effectiveness of reducing transmission at around 6%, far from the 30% touted by the NPR graphic. If the NPR were to redo the graphic with 5x less effectiveness what would it look like?

To voluntarily wear a mask at all times I would need to see a 50% or more reduction in transmission before I felt it was worth it to me.
 
It's far scarier that people can't do the *tiniest* of things, like wearing a mask indoors or when in crowds outside. It's literally the smallest thing. But...freedom. Funny, I remember post 9/11, and I don't remember anyone throwing a fit about having to take off their belts and shoes...throw the laptop through the scanner, etc. We did that, despite the inconvenience, because we all wanted to be safe and move on with our lives. It always felt like we were all in it together.

Now, we have a decent percentage of Americans who aren't buying it. They don't believe the science that we have at the moment. They're not going to play along. And I try to think about the fools out in public throwing fits over having to wear a mask...throwing that same fit in the TSA line in 2002. If they threw a fit, they didn't fly. And that's how the rest of us moved on. We left the lunatics behind. Also, many of us realized that the TSA lines and Air Marshalls and all of that would only do so much to keep us all safe. But, we were all on the same page. And it worked. We picked ourselves up, dusted ourselves off and got back to living.

This time is very different.

Imagine if people brushed off the lives lost and forever changed on 9/11 with percentages the way they do the lives lost and forever changed by COVID-19.

Imagine treating 9/11 deaths the way people do COVID. Oh he was old, oh she was fat, oh he had asthma, oh he was just incredibly unlucky, etc. We can’t change our lives because an extremely small amount of people died!
 
Yes I wear a mask when required. I wore one for a large part of today as I spent several hours at the mall and then time at the grocery store.

A Norwegian meta study of existing mask studies placed the effectiveness of reducing transmission at around 6%, far from the 30% touted by the NPR graphic. If the NPR were to redo the graphic with 5x less effectiveness what would it look like?

To voluntarily wear a mask at all times I would need to see a 50% or more reduction in transmission before I felt it was worth it to me.
That's the challenge of any prevention measure. Unless it's a high palpable personal benefit, getting buyin these days is extremely difficult.

We see it statins for cholesterol and vaccines for flu. Even seatbelts and helmets have become struggles.

With such high bar thresholds like 25....50% benefits where it should literally be stitched to your head benefit levels, we shall struggle on voluntary compliance.

So we as a nation of individual choice is stuck with a virus nobody wants but cannot agree as a nation to do the simplist of functions, we have a long road ahead of us....the greatest democracy and powerhouse is being brought to its knees not by a virus but its own insistence on individualality.

We can do better
 

Yes I wear a mask when required. I wore one for a large part of today as I spent several hours at the mall and then time at the grocery store.

A Norwegian meta study of existing mask studies placed the effectiveness of reducing transmission at around 6%, far from the 30% touted by the NPR graphic. If the NPR were to redo the graphic with 5x less effectiveness what would it look like?

To voluntarily wear a mask at all times I would need to see a 50% or more reduction in transmission before I felt it was worth it to me.
Does the 50% need to cover their nose and chin with their covering to count?
 
Yes I wear a mask when required. I wore one for a large part of today as I spent several hours at the mall and then time at the grocery store.

A Norwegian meta study of existing mask studies placed the effectiveness of reducing transmission at around 6%, far from the 30% touted by the NPR graphic. If the NPR were to redo the graphic with 5x less effectiveness what would it look like?

To voluntarily wear a mask at all times I would need to see a 50% or more reduction in transmission before I felt it was worth it to me.

Wow. Well, thanks for wearing one when required, at least.

That's what bothers me. You wear your mask to make it worth it for me, but I guess, I read you loud and clear.

Not that anything I'm going to say will sway you, but here are a few statements. I'll keep my eye out on the new studies that meet your approval and let you know.

In an interview with JAMA on 14 July 2020, CDC director Robert R. Redfield said that "The data is clearly there that masking works. [...] Masking is not a political issue. It is a public health issue. It really is a personal responsibility for all of us."[81]

A report from the United States Department of Health and Human Services found that 139 clients exposed to two symptomatic hair stylists with confirmed COVID-19—with both the clients and stylists wearing face coverings—resulted in no symptomatic cases reported among all clients and no positive tests among those who volunteered to be tested.[104] This case was highlighted when the CDC reiterated that Americans should wear masks.[105]

A recent study published in Health Affairs, for example, compared the COVID-19 growth rate before and after mask mandates in 15 states and the District of Columbia. It found that mask mandates led to a slowdown in daily COVID-19 growth rate, which became more apparent over time. The first five days after a mandate, the daily growth rate slowed by 0.9 percentage-points compared to the five days prior to the mandate; at three weeks, the daily growth rate had slowed by 2 percentage-points.

Another study looked at coronavirus deaths across 198 countries and found that those with cultural norms or government policies favoring mask-wearing had lower death rates.

Two compelling case reports also suggest that masks can prevent transmission in high-risk scenarios, said Chin-Hong and Rutherford. In one case, a man flew from China to Toronto and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19. He had a dry cough and wore a mask on the flight, and all 25 people closest to him on the flight tested negative for COVID-19. In another case, in late May, two hair stylists in Missouri had close contact with 140 clients while sick with COVID-19. Everyone wore a mask and none of the clients tested positive.
 
I honestly think we opened earlier than what the guidelines suggested because they knew people weren't going to comply much longer. Since reopening people have had parties, vacations, you name it. My friends and family have continued to be careful for the most part. But some have not. And neighbors are all over the place. Mask compliance has been good at the places I go. The governor asked churches to do 2 weeks of virtual services. I did not go this weekend. I really think people from all around the country are contributing to the rise in places like Florida. It’s not just Florida citizens. People on vacation don’t want to follow rules.

As far as anger, I’m not angry but I am sad. And worried. As far as my life, I’m fine. I’m a retired teacher. I can keep doing this forever if I need to. But I am sad my son missed out on his valuable activities. And I worry he won’t have the experiences he needs in his senior year of college to make a successful transition to the working world. I may be a little angry people argue every effort to eradicate this virus with no suggestions of their own.
 
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I remember post 9/11, and I don't remember anyone throwing a fit about having to take off their belts and shoes...throw the laptop through the scanner, etc.
um, yea, they did. I remember a number of threads on here (and actually for years afterwards) where people complained about the TSA and what they had to do. The difference is enforcement. If you don't go through the hoops TSA requires, you don't fly. Unfortunately some businesses aren't willing to enforce mask mandates because they don't want to piss off customers.
 
Yes I wear a mask when required. I wore one for a large part of today as I spent several hours at the mall and then time at the grocery store.

A Norwegian meta study of existing mask studies placed the effectiveness of reducing transmission at around 6%, far from the 30% touted by the NPR graphic. If the NPR were to redo the graphic with 5x less effectiveness what would it look like?

To voluntarily wear a mask at all times I would need to see a 50% or more reduction in transmission before I felt it was worth it to me.
I'm curious... how do you explain the case of the two hairdressers who both had Covid, saw 137(?) customers and not one customer became infected? EVERYONE wore masks. Social distancing didn't do anything.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/11/us/missouri-hairstylists-coronavirus-clients-trnd/index.htmlAnd if you don't like CNN...
https://www.businessinsider.com/two...onavirus-saw-140-clients-none-infected-2020-6
 
Yea, I posted that a page or so ago, when I was questioning why people have said Florida went past NY.

Then I think what they were referencing is that Florida now has the most new cases of positives each day. They have passed the number of new cases per day than California and New York.

For example, yesterday Florida had 12,199 new positive cases. California had 10,183 and New York had 825.
 
I'm curious... how do you explain the case of the two hairdressers who both had Covid, saw 137(?) customers and not one customer became infected? EVERYONE wore masks. Social distancing didn't do anything.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/11/us/missouri-hairstylists-coronavirus-clients-trnd/index.htmlAnd if you don't like CNN...
https://www.businessinsider.com/two...onavirus-saw-140-clients-none-infected-2020-6
It's possible they didn't have enough viral load to spread? Did they infect anyone else?
 
Then I think what they were referencing is that Florida now has the most new cases of positives each day. They have passed the number of new cases per day than California and New York.

For example, yesterday Florida had 12,199 new positive cases. California had 10,183 and New York had 825.
That doesn't make sense either... Florida has had over 2k per day since the middle of June. NY has been under 2k/day since the end of May.
 
um, yea, they did. I remember a number of threads on here (and actually for years afterwards) where people complained about the TSA and what they had to do. The difference is enforcement. If you don't go through the hoops TSA requires, you don't fly. Unfortunately some businesses aren't willing to enforce mask mandates because they don't want to piss off customers.

That was my point. The people who threw a fit....didn't fly. And so we all felt safe, and moved forward.
 
That was my point. The people who threw a fit....didn't fly. And so we all felt safe, and moved forward.
You said you don't remember people throwing a fit. I was pointing out people did... and for years after. If people want to throw a fit about wearing masks, I'm fine with that. I'll stay away from them outdoors. But businesses need to enforce the mask rules. And probably part of the problem is not all states have mask mandates.
 
That doesn't make sense either... Florida has had over 2k per day since the middle of June. NY has been under 2k/day since the end of May.

I'd have to see the post you're talking about. I'm confused now too.


It's possible they didn't have enough viral load to spread? Did they infect anyone else?

Yes, they did.

Six close contacts of stylists A and B outside of salon A were identified: four of stylist A and two of stylist B. All four of stylist A’s contacts later developed symptoms and had positive PCR test results for SARS-CoV-2. These contacts were stylist A’s cohabitating husband and her daughter, son-in-law, and their roommate, all of whom lived together in another household. None of stylist B’s contacts became symptomatic.
 
Possible. Hard to believe masks had no part in it though.
They may have but we have seen cases where there was close contact but the virus wasn't spread...without masks. It's why I asked if they had infected anyone like maybe a family member who would have contact without a covering.
 






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