GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[Heigh-Ho]

Sometime's it gets things done.

Posting about how people should give Florida a break isn't doing anything either.

Most people on this board are Disney fans and like to go to Florida, either for the parks, the weather and/or the beaches, etc. Can't you understand that they are frustrated and angry that Florida isn't doing the things necessary to make travel to Florida a possibility in their future?

The best way to reach a lot of Floridians is on this board and maybe they can influence their politicians because I'm sure an email from Joe Schmo in Kokomo, Indiana isn't going to do it.

I don't think being mean, spiteful, accusatory, name-calling, aggressive and much more that has typically been seen with angry people gets one to actually change someone's mind (goes both ways on both sides). I think it makes them dig in their heels more. Everyone can understand being frustrated, at one's whit's end true but when it comes to social media social it rarely works especially the way it's being done throughout the Boards and social media. Tends to just pit each other against each other and you tend to stay on your side if you started on one to begin with. As far as political activism unless you're already of that frame of mind I highly doubt a Joe Schmo on the DISboards is going to be called to action to contact their governor if they are on an opposing side already.

That isn't to say you can't appeal to someone but using anger may not be the best course of method if you want actual results of changing someone's mind.

 

[dvcgirl67]

There’s lots of anger for some who can not control the actions and behaviors of others. It’s a bit scary. IMO

Well, I wonder why we'd be angry? There are millions and millions of Americans who are angry. I'd say...a good 65% of us are angry to some degree.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Well, I wonder why we'd be angry? There are millions and millions of Americans who are angry. I'd say...a good 65% of us are angry to some degree.

Oh I go between enraged and depressed every week. Because of the selfishness of others those of us who take a pandemic seriously are still putting our lives on hold.

No, I do not have control over others, but I can be as angry as I want to be.

 

[jlwhitney]

I dont get it anymore. It really does look like Florida has plateaued somehow. I didn't believe it when the cases kinda leveled out - insufficient capacity would explain that, but now hospital admissions seem kinda flat as well.

How is that possible when they have done so little. Yet places like spain/Hong Kong/Japan are well into a 2nd wave after being so much more cautious.

because that is what outbreaks/epidemics do. They go up and come down. Could Florida have another outbreak possibly, the same as everywhere. But they never just continue to go up and up and up.

 

[wombat_5606]

I don't think being mean, spiteful, accusatory, name-calling, aggressive and much more that has typically been seen with angry people gets one to actually change someone's mind (goes both ways on both sides). I think it makes them dig in their heels more. Everyone can understand being frustrated, at one's whit's end true but when it comes to social media social it rarely works especially the way it's being done throughout the Boards and social media. Tends to just pit each other against each other and you tend to stay on your side if you started on one to begin with. As far as political activism unless you're already of that frame of mind I highly doubt a Joe Schmo on the DISboards is going to be called to action to contact their governor if they are on an opposing side already.

That isn't to say you can't appeal to someone but using anger may not be the best course of method if you want actual results of changing someone's mind.

Few people here are acting like this.

Anger is an impetus to action. You only have to look at Portland to see it.

You never know what a post may spur someone to do. If I lived in Florida, I would be doing something.

My daughter works in Florida. She was called back to work and her place of business was not putting her best interests at heart. She was angry. So instead of working and being angry every day, she sent off a well-worded email to her bosses. Guess what? Things changed for the better for her. Does that work every time? No, but it's better than not saying anything at all.

Some DISboard posters have grown as this virus has played out. I'm not going to hesitate to state my opinion, nor share my knowledge. I can lead a horse to water but you're right, I can't make him drink. I'm still leading him there. If that bothers some, they have a few choices to rectify that. All of which I support.

 

[Southernmiss]

[QUOTE="wombat_5606,

The best way to reach a lot of Floridians is on this board and maybe they can influence their politicians because I'm sure an email from Joe Schmo in Kokomo, Indiana isn't going to do it.
[/QUOTE]


Lol at your last paragraph. Really?? Lol

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Few people here are acting like this.

Anger is an impetus to action. You only have to look at Portland to see it.

You never know what a post may spur someone to do. If I lived in Florida, I would be doing something.

My daughter works in Florida. She was called back to work and her place of business was not putting her best interests at heart. She was angry. So instead of working and being angry every day, she sent off a well-worded email to her bosses. Guess what? Things changed for the better for her. Does that work every time? No, but it's better than not saying anything at all.

Some DISboard posters have grown as this virus has played out. I'm not going to hesitate to state my opinion, nor share my knowledge. I can lead a horse to water but you're right, I can't make him drink. I'm still leading him there. If that bothers some, they have a few choices to rectify that. All of which I support.

The few tend to be the loudest on both sides. They tend to stick out (and yes I do mean even the people woefully misinformed about this virus they stick out like a sore thumb).

I'm glad about your daughter but respectfully that doesn't have anything to do with the comment of yours I was responding to. I never said no one IN Florida nor no one ever, etc because obviously people choosing to reach out to so and so works at times.

I was specifically speaking about your comment regarding telling people here on the DISboards that live in Florida because in your words: "The best way to reach a lot of Floridians is on this board and maybe they can influence their politicians because I'm sure an email from Joe Schmo in Kokomo, Indiana isn't going to do it." So unless your daughter was already lax about the virus, woefully misinformed about the virus, and was posting on the DISboards she's just an example of someone being upset at what their government official (in this case place of employment) is doing and reaching out to them. Kudos for her really but it's not an example of what you were talking about in terms of calling to action to change Floridians minds on the DISboards to reach out to their governor (or whoever) to change the way things are being done.

Impetus does not always equal the best. We don't normally want very important decisions to be made rashly. Lashing out at someone is certainly a way to get things off your chest but it doesn't tend to alter many people's minds/behaviors. "you're selfish person, you are killing the older people, you don't care about what happens to anyone but yourself, you're terrible, etc"..I don't think that's going to wake someone up (these are just various examples not aimed at anyone in particular just bits and pieces over time) Like I said appealing to people isn't the same as using anger. Anger may be justified I'm definitely not discounting that. It's why we all sometimes just need to let it out so I'm not saying don't say it I'm saying don't expect it to change people as a direct result of saying it.

I really haven't seen someone say "you know after being called a selfish person for the millionth time I decided yes I was selfish and changed my tune on how I dealt with this virus". Usually it's because of some other reason (like personal dealings with the virus, more information scientifically being known, watching others exhibit behaviors like mask wearing and social distancing, etc) so yes I do agree that some people have grown but not normally because of a result of anger directed at them. Normally I'd say "hey if it worked for just one person it's worth it" but in this respects I don't, not with how separated we are as a country and how it's more crucial for us all to work together to try and fight this virus

 

[TLSnell1981]

Well, I wonder why we'd be angry? There are millions and millions of Americans who are angry. I'd say...a good 65% of us are angry to some degree.

Yup. Some have been whipped into a frenzy. Do as they say or you will be shouted down, shamed, called names and/or threatened. Like I said... a bit scary. IMO

 

[anthony2k7]

What were todays FL numbers?

 

[kdonnel]

For a datapoint from our hospital three months ago when we stabilized our surge and enjoying a 3% positive rate in the community.

Tested all our ED staff both swabs for active disease and serology for past exposure. These are the ones who interacted up close, for prolonged periods with only masking We had deployed standard universal masking policies for all staff and patients.

Community positive: 3%
Staff positive 0.9%

Masking protects and reduces transmission. If we don't use it when there's <6 feet spacing, we're leaving a tool at the sidelines.

Another analogy -- helmets. Sure they don't protect from all head injuries in football, so let's not use them, right?

I am not saying they do not provide some protection. I am saying that until we know at what level, the NPR and others, should not put out graphics that say IF on them because most people will not read the graphic but just look at the graphic and think my God, I am saving the world wearing my mask!

When in reality the mask may provide 1% of extra protection. Especially poorly worn homemade masks.

 

[sam_gordon]

First, our lockdowns would have worked, if they had been done correctly. To get out of lockdown, places were to have 5% positivity for 14 straight days. No one did that in Florida and I would say, it was few and far between in the entire country. They were to open gradually and watch their infection rates. Here again, no one did it. So, a lockdown done correctly would have been beneficial.

Your first sentence is false though. Look at my state, Kentucky. We locked down in the middle of March. We started opening in early June. We stayed at <5% positive for like 6 weeks. Now we're over 5%. Unless you're going to lock down the entire country and not let ANYONE reopen until EVERYWHERE has things "under control", I think we're stuck. Does it really make sense to keep North Dakota (for example) under lock down when Florida is having problems?

Also, I thought someone said Florida passed NY on the number of cases. They're getting there, but not quite yet. CA took over the #1 slot though.

 

[wombat_5606]

That isn't to say you can't appeal to someone but using anger may not be the best course of method if you want actual results of changing someone's mind.

Well, it worked for my daughter and this statement you posted lead to my anecdote.

The few tend to be the loudest on both sides. They tend to stick out (and yes I do mean even the people woefully misinformed about this virus they stick out like a sore thumb).

I'm glad about your daughter but respectfully that doesn't have anything to do with the comment of yours I was responding to. I never said no one IN Florida nor no one ever, etc because obviously people choosing to reach out to so and so works at times.

I was specifically speaking about your comment regarding telling people here on the DISboards that live in Florida because in your words: "The best way to reach a lot of Floridians is on this board and maybe they can influence their politicians because I'm sure an email from Joe Schmo in Kokomo, Indiana isn't going to do it." So unless your daughter was already lax about the virus, woefully misinformed about the virus, and was posting on the DISboards she's just an example of someone being upset at what their government official (in this case place of employment) is doing and reaching out to them. Kudos for her really but it's not an example of what you were talking about in terms of calling to action to change Floridians minds on the DISboards to reach out to their governor (or whoever) to change the way things are being done.

Impetus does not always equal the best. We don't normally want very important decisions to be made rashly. Lashing out at someone is certainly a way to get things off your chest but it doesn't tend to alter many people's minds/behaviors. "you're selfish person, you are killing the older people, you don't care about what happens to anyone but yourself, you're terrible, etc"..I don't think that's going to wake someone up (these are just various examples not aimed at anyone in particular just bits and pieces over time) Like I said appealing to people isn't the same as using anger. Anger may be justified I'm definitely not discounting that. It's why we all sometimes just need to let it out so I'm not saying don't say it I'm saying don't expect it to change people as a direct result of saying it.

I really haven't seen someone say "you know after being called a selfish person for the millionth time I decided yes I was selfish and changed my tune on how I dealt with this virus". Usually it's because of some other reason (like personal dealings with the virus, more information scientifically being known, watching others exhibit behaviors like mask wearing and social distancing, etc) so yes I do agree that some people have grown but not normally because of a result of anger directed at them. Normally I'd say "hey if it worked for just one person it's worth it" but in this respects I don't, not with how separated we are as a country and how it's more crucial for us all to work together to try and fight this virus

Most of your post seems to focus on people calling you names. I'm really not going to focus on that, because I don't do that.

If you have an issue with people being angry, then I can't help that. I am angry that Florida and the people that go about their business as though this is inconsequential, have made me feel that way. We have been dealing with this for months now. How can someone not be angry that people, today, still don't want to believe this virus is serious and still don't want to do anything to alleviate the suffering, physical and economic, in this country?

I think most people get angry when they try to help someone understand something that is very important, so important that it's actually life altering, and that person persists in denying that the situation is cause for concern.

I'm angry that this could have been less severe than it is today. I'm angry that people take financial advantage of people and then put them in harms way. I'm angry that there is a part of society that thinks their rights are so important that they exhaust and imperil our medical profession, both physically and psychologically, because what they want to do is paramount. I'm angry that our government is so broken that they cannot take care of it's citizens during a pandemic.

So, yep, I going to state my mind on these boards when someone compares wearing a face mask to farts. I'm going to remind them of the CMs in the parks who are at work, whether they want to be or not.

Does everyone need to work together? Absolutely! But if someone is dead set against leaning to the side where they see this as a public health crisis and decide to change their behavior, I don't see the person who is working for the safety of others just deciding to say, "OK, lets do it your way."

 

[wombat_5606]

Your first sentence is false though. Look at my state, Kentucky. We locked down in the middle of March. We started opening in early June. We stayed at <5% positive for like 6 weeks. Now we're over 5%. Unless you're going to lock down the entire country and not let ANYONE reopen until EVERYWHERE has things "under control", I think we're stuck. Does it really make sense to keep North Dakota (for example) under lock down when Florida is having problems?

Also, I thought someone said Florida passed NY on the number of cases. They're getting there, but not quite yet. CA took over the #1 slot though.
View attachment 513594

What I read about KY, though, was that as soon as people could, they went on vacation. Their huge number of infections was from Myrtle Beach.

So, yes. If someone in North Dakota came to KY for a visit and then went home with the virus.

Florida usually has the most new cases every day.

 

[Trvlnomad]

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Well, it worked for my daughter and this statement you posted lead to my anecdote.



Most of your post seems to focus on people calling you names. I'm really not going to focus on that, because I don't do that.

If you have an issue with people being angry, then I can't help that. I am angry that Florida and the people that go about their business as though this is inconsequential, have made me feel that way. We have been dealing with this for months now. How can someone not be angry that people, today, still don't want to believe this virus is serious and still don't want to do anything to alleviate the suffering, physical and economic, in this country?

I think most people get angry when they try to help someone understand something that is very important, so important that it's actually life altering, and that person persists in denying that the situation is cause for concern.

I'm angry that this could have been less severe than it is today. I'm angry that people take financial advantage of people and then put them in harms way. I'm angry that there is a part of society that thinks their rights are so important that they exhaust and imperil our medical profession, both physically and psychologically, because what they want to do is paramount. I'm angry that our government is so broken that they cannot take care of it's citizens during a pandemic.

So, yep, I going to state my mind on these boards when someone compares wearing a face mask to farts. I'm going to remind them of the CMs in the parks who are at work, whether they want to be or not.

Does everyone need to work together? Absolutely! But if someone is dead set against leaning to the side where they see this as a public health crisis and decide to change their behavior, I don't see the person who is working for the safety of others just deciding to say, "OK, lets do it your way."

Hold up wait a minute. I'm not talking about people calling me names. I'm talking about people calling other people's names. I'm not in this fight other than observational skills here. I haven't observed people actually say they have changed their minds after having had anger used at them or name called or other things. I have seen people say "after knowing so and so who died or was seriously ill I then..." or "Wearing a mask wasn't so bad when I saw so many doing it, I got used to it after a while" or "after seeing our cases rise I'm no longer comfortable with kids going back to school", etc.

I don't think that poster from reading their comments over time is going to wake up and say "yep you guys made me change my mind". You're free to call them out go for it but my point was I doubt it's going to adjust their viewpoint and observational from multiple people that seems to be the case. The few as you mentioned their viewpoint, even after having been called out time and time again...stays the same..throughout this whole mess. Same as the few on the other side other than observational I've seen them become angrier but no less on that 'side' of the line. So we're just divided only typically snarking at each other while doing it. And again I never said you couldn't say what you want to say just speaking towards the end goal which you're the one who brought that up.

Again your daughter's thing isn't related to your exact wording. It's a story about writing to the powers who be to try and change something yes but not related to what your comment was. You're the one who said the comment not me. I'm just responding to it

With that let's just call a truce

 

[montreid]

I am not saying they do not provide some protection. I am saying that until we know at what level, the NPR and others, should not put out graphics that say IF on them because most people will not read the graphic but just look at the graphic and think my God, I am saving the world wearing my mask!

When in reality the mask may provide 1% of extra protection. Especially poorly worn homemade masks.

Is 1% better than none? Is it worth it if even 1% protection? We can debate on both sides how much protection vs what's the best material vs whatever other barrier is worthwhile (like gaiter vs mask with loops a la Disney's directive), but the point is this -- a facial covering provides a barrier that makes it more difficult in transmission of the virus. It will improve the situation and get US ALL to a better place.

Can we agree that this is a tool that's worthy to start down the road together to fight this virus?

 

[wombat_5606]

Hold up wait a minute. I'm not talking about people calling me names. I'm talking about people calling other people's names. I'm not in this fight other than observational skills here. I haven't observed people actually say they have changed their minds after having had anger used at them or name called or other things. I don't think that poster from reading their comments over time is going to wake up and say "yep you guys made me change my mind". You're free to call them out go for it but my point was I doubt it's going to adjust their viewpoint and observational from multiple people that seems to be the case. The few as you mentioned their viewpoint, even after having been called out time and time again...stays the same..throughout this whole mess. Same as the few on the other side other than observational I've seen them become angrier but no less on that 'side' of the line. So we're just divided only typically snarking at each other while doing it. And again I never said you couldn't say what you want to say just speaking towards the end goal which you're the one who brought that up.

Again your daughter's thing isn't related to your exact wording. It's a story about writing to the powers who be to try and change something yes but not related to what your comment was. You're the one who said the comment not me. I'm just responding to it

With that let's just call a truce

Sure. Perhaps you misunderstood my point and we aren't firing on the same piston. You do you and I'll do me.

 

[choirfarm]

Angry doesn't get us to go. At the same time, wishing/hoping that this virus will go away shouldn't be our Plan A (or B or C).

It will take us ALL TOGETHER to get this virus under control, utilizing ALL the tools available to us to achieve this goal, and get us back on our feet.

Do that mean inconveniences on many people's individual lives? Most definitely. It's what's needed to control this virus. Time again in other countries who have controlled it, if one lets their guard down and relax too much, the virus WILL surge.

So WE ALL need to get it together. Stop fighting each other and concentrate our efforts to get back on our feet by utilizing our collective energies in defeating this by using all and every tool that we have.

Does this statement make sense or not?

It does. I just think our society is way too far gone. No one knows how to listen. Some are horribly angry about racial injustice. Some are horribly angry that it feels like their businesses are going under and people want them to keep staying home and masks feel like the last straw. Some are horribly angry because people will not stay locked away. The fear of the virus, the isolation, the anger... The economy will be worse than the Depression of the 30's. African Americans have had enough of the injustice. So if the current president wins, the protesters will get even worse. They will not put up with the federal government clamping down on peaceful protests. If the other guy wins, people in my area will revolt if they try to bring in federal troops to shut down the businesses or wear masks or whatever. It is going to be ugly. More people will become homeless. And I don't see a way out. People cannot have a nuanced discussion. It will be only anger until our society is gone. Much like the Roman Empire.

 

[wombat_5606]

I am not saying they do not provide some protection. I am saying that until we know at what level, the NPR and others, should not put out graphics that say IF on them because most people will not read the graphic but just look at the graphic and think my God, I am saving the world wearing my mask!

When in reality the mask may provide 1% of extra protection. Especially poorly worn homemade masks.

So, do you wear a mask?

I can tell you in reality, the mask provides more than 1% of extra protection.

So even 1% of extra protection is not worth it to you?

What percentage of extra protection is worth it to you?

 

[sam_gordon]

What I read about KY, though, was that as soon as people could, they went on vacation. Their huge number of infections was from Myrtle Beach.

So, yes. If someone in North Dakota came to KY for a visit and then went home with the virus.

That's my point. Unless you're going to shut down every state until every state is under control, you're going to have problems.

Florida usually has the most new cases every day.

OK. With the whole "per capita" thing, that seems a strange thing to look at.