GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[dvcgirl67]

How long would it take...weeks, months, YEARS? Would that have eradicated the virus? It was never the goal and likely not realistic.

Well, according to experts, it's unlikely that we ever eradicate SarsCoV2. It's with us to stay. However, since we're literally on Round One of this terribly fun pandemic....what would have been a decent goal, was to have had a national federal response and leadership. Instead of that, apparently we're at war with....Oregon.

The reality is that it doesn't matter what the administration says or does now. Haven't heard a blessed thing from them since May, but we're back to briefings in spots with good ratings, and all of the nonsense of the big show. We all know at our local and state levels how we're doing. And in huge swaths of the country, the answer to that is....we're not doing great. Another reality is that because of the federal "non-response", states, cities, towns and now school districts....are on their own. And so it doesn't matter if the administration shouted from the top of a mountain that all Americans should report back to work and open schools immediately!! By order of the Burgermeister Meisterburger himself (anyone know the reference? . Millions and millions of Americans have been forced to alter their lives. Many are not going to work in any normal fashion anytime soon. Anyone who can work from home in my area, is working from home. And in NJ we have one of the lowest rates of transmission in the country.

This pandemic is going to totally change the way that many people work. Business travel won't return to 2019 levels for *years*...if ever. Many businesses, especially in cities that had lots of commuters, will fail. This economy is completely propped up right now by the Federal Reserve and the Federal Government. We have 30 million people who are collecting unemployment benefits right now, and income levels have not dropped. Think about that for a minute.

So this is all baked into the cake now. You can't Jedi-mind trick your way through a pandemic and act like everything is fine, and that it will just "go away". We're all living in Oz now.

 

[robinb]

Curious to see if mandatory masks stop the spread. I hear people still contract the virus even though they are required.

Mandatory masks do not completely stop the spread. If that is your benchmark for success, I think you have unrealistic expectations.

 

[cakebaker]

I do agree about bars. Intoxicated people are less likely to social distance or practice good hygiene.

Bars aren’t high risk because people are drunk. You can drink and not be drunk. It’s because they’re usually small with small tables, chairs close together at the bar area and they’re noisy so people talk in loud voices.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Mandatory masks do not completely stop the spread. If that is your benchmark for success, I think you have unrealistic expectations.

Not my benchmark but seems to be the answer for too many. It’s a bit more involved than just covering up.

 

[robinb]

Not my benchmark but seems to be the answer for too many. It’s a bit more involved than just covering up.

If it's not your benchmark, then why did you mention it?

 

[wombat_5606]

Curious to see if mandatory masks stop the spread. I hear people still contract the virus even though they are required.

No, but it is helping people enough so they don't get a heavy viral load and therefore, they may get a less severe illness. If everyone is wearing a mask, those who are asymptomatic still spread the virus but everyone they spread it to, is suffering less severe illness and doesn't die.

If you read this article, you will see some places are using the masks and continue to have a functioning society.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-07-21/masks-help-avoid-major-illness-coronavirus

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Bars aren’t high risk because people are drunk. You can drink and not be drunk. It’s because they’re usually small with small tables, chairs close together at the bar area and they’re noisy so people talk in loud voices.

Yes you can drink and not get drunk. The medical community has just been pointing out that when you drink (and continue to drink) you're 1) not being required to wear your mask because you're actively consuming a beverage 2) you often slide into a "not as aware" state of mind.

Some places the mask mandate is if you're not actively drinking or eating you need to wear your mask. In a bar (or bar area of a bar and restaurant) you're more likely to just be drinking so the time that you'd be wearing your mask is lower. That is a different distinction in activity than just going to a bar and restaurant and sitting at a table, eating, and then either leaving when done or putting on the masks when everyone is done eating and drinking and you're just talking.

A bar and grill place for instance like Applebees can effectively space out their bar stools, that's no different than removing tables they just remove chairs but some places have said "no we don't want that bar area to even be open" and often it's because it encourages people to sit and they will be engaged in an activity where a mask isn't being worn OR it's because with a bar area people are up moving around getting closed to each other often not wearing masks for prolonged periods of time.

I don't think either of you are wrong but more a mixture of the two is possible. What you described may be a particular type of bar but it's not the only type. You can drink without getting drunk but a place or area of a place designed for you to consume alcoholic beverages can also encourage drinking to the point where your spacial awareness is lower which yes can happen even at a normal restaurant but it seems that bar feeling amps that up or the place encourages behaviors that are of a different risk level potentially than just a table spaced well apart from each other where you're staying put. I've seen various risk level type documents where indoor dining is listed as less than a bar (or bar seating) in terms of a level. That's why some places allow bar and grills to open but not allow the bar seating. Distancing the stools isn't a hardship and that's not what they are necessarily concerned about.

 

[gwynne]

Not my benchmark but seems to be the answer for too many. It’s a bit more involved than just covering up.

Cover your mouth and nose completely with a mask. Stay 6 feet away from others.
Wash your hands frequently. Don't touch your face. Stay away from crowds, avoid loud talking, singing. Avoid others that are talking loudly and singing.

That's pretty much it for me. Any more?

 

[Heigh-Ho]

I just thought this might be somewhat relative due to an earlier discussion on Hawaii and interstate travel.

Hawaii appears to suffer from the same issues as everywhere else. They had 55 new cases today which is the highest they have had yet.

"Of the 55 new cases, 50 were on Oahu, three on Hawaii Island and two on Maui. The previous highest single-day increase in COVID-19 cases was on July 11, with 42 cases. Most cases are occurring as a result of people socializing and getting together either with work colleagues, extended family, or friends in multiple type of settings — without wearing face coverings or distancing”

So while I do agree with travel back and forth between two states being a risk factor I tend to see more behaviors related to people doing things closer to where they are but in riskier ways and probably the thing that most needs to be focused on.


https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/07/23/hawaii-reports-new-covid-cases-highest-single-day-increase/

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Most expected the virus to spread after we reopened. The goal was to be better prepared to treat those who needed to be hospitalized. The cost to our society was way to high to stay locked down.

Oh really? Who exactly that wanted to open and was pushing that agenda said we know the virus is going to get completely out of control again with daily new cases being almost double nationally what they were the first time several places went to shelter in place? Who that was pushing that agenda said deaths were going to climb back over 1,000 a day nationwide? They said quite the opposite in fact. That it was under control and things would stay there. They said we might have a few more cases but nothing to worry about. Well they were wrong. Oh so wrong. Yet again. Yet another time being wrong in a whole string of them. And they're still not admitting they were wrong. How can they even begin to correct the problem if they refuse to see the reality that there is one?

 

[KayMichigan]

By order of the Burgermeister Meisterburger himself (anyone know the reference? .

Let's just hope he doesn't outlaw toys...

 

[dvcgirl67]

Let's just hope he doesn't outlaw toys...

Yes! . Whenever I hear "proclamations from on high".....from the administration. I think of the Burgermeister Meisterburger.....and I chuckle. Because it's all so incredibly ridiculous.

 

[KayMichigan]

Yes! . Whenever I hear "proclamations from on high".....from the administration. I think of the Burgermeister Meisterburger.....and I chuckle. Because it's all so incredibly ridiculous.

I can completely see that!!

 

[anthony2k7]

Intriguing press release here....

https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...istance-Devices-Announces-Face-Mask-Detection
So one of the big Hollywood studios is looking to automate mask enforcement it seems. Would that really be for their studios or perhaps their theme parks if said studio had theme parks?

Its probably something they just want to trial and will come to nothing more. But interesting. Suggests they also think masks will be required for the long term as well.

 

[hertamaniac]

Bars aren’t high risk because people are drunk. You can drink and not be drunk. It’s because they’re usually small with small tables, chairs close together at the bar area and they’re noisy so people talk in loud voices.

I would classify it as higher risk due to a higher potential of intoxication and relaxation of social distancing measures, etc.

 

[littlejimmy]

I would classify it as higher risk due to a higher potential of intoxication and relaxation of social distancing measures, etc.

and lots of making out. don't forget that.

 

[hertamaniac]

and lots of making out. don't forget that.

That's how I met my now ex-wife.

 

[cakebaker]

and lots of making out. don't forget that.

You guys go to bars very different from those I frequent. lol But still, experts say the main reasons are what I said. Sure, if you drink to excess and your judgement is impaired, that's a contributor. And if any place knows about bars, it's got to be Wisconsin! lol

https://www.emed.wisc.edu/jeff-pothof-md
"“The highest risk environments would be indoors with poor air/HVAC systems, with an inability to maintain 6-foot spacing accompanied by loud talking or yelling without everyone wearing a mask,” Dr. Jeff Pothof, the chief quality officer at UW Health in Madison, Wisconsin, told Healthline. “The most common example would be a crowded bar with people having to speak loudly because of the noise and either unmasked or frequently removing the mask to eat or drink.”

 

[littlejimmy]

"“The highest risk environments would be indoors with poor air/HVAC systems, with an inability to maintain 6-foot spacing accompanied by loud talking or yelling without everyone wearing a mask,” Dr. Jeff Pothof, the chief quality officer at UW Health in Madison, Wisconsin, told Healthline. “The most common example would be a crowded bar with people having to speak loudly because of the noise and either unmasked or frequently removing the mask to eat or drink.”

Wait! Are you trying to tell me that speaking loudly in a bar is more of a risk than making out? I call total BS on that. I dont have a study for it, but I stand by that making out is more of a risk than loud talking. Oh, and dont tell me that making out doesnt happen very often. It is very prevalent, especially at bar time. Prove me wrong!!

 

[Searc]

Wait! Are you trying to tell me that speaking loudly in a bar is more of a risk than making out? I call total BS on that. I dont have a study for it, but I stand by that making out is more of a risk than loud talking. Oh, and dont tell me that making out doesnt happen very often. It is very prevalent, especially at bar time. Prove me wrong!!

That's not how making outrageous claims works. The onus is on you to prove what you're claiming, not the other way around.