Gobsmacked by rude, presumptuous neighbor UPDATE - post 94!

[BigMama]

The Highest Fence Allowed And 2 Big Dobermans!!

 

[Laurabearz]

Anyone else wish there were pictures..


Best of luck on the birth of your new child. ((hugs))

 

[SeeVee]

I dunno. I'm going to be the voice of dissent, I know- but I don't see why it's a big deal either, other than when the kids got rude- that's uncalled for.

I grew up in a neighborhood where everyone lived in everyone's yard, and it was really a non-issue.

Of course, I guess it would be more polite of them to ask permission, but still- personally, it wouldn't be a big deal to me.

BUT- it IS your yard, and you have the right to say who comes and goes in it, so the neighbor (assuming he and his kids had any manners) should respect your wishes.

I am with you. "Trespassing" usually involves some nefarious purpose. They are playing baseball for heaven's sake.

 

[Rozzie]

Yes, I think it's a fabulous idea to let these spoiled, self-centered egotistical brats do whatever they want because after all, they are only kids.
.

First off, I think Disney Doll is going to start charging me for quoting her. I can't help it, everything she posts I agree with 100%, and she is way more articulate than me.

If I hear the "they are only kids" speech one more time in life I think I'm going to scream. I was taught to respect my elders, respect their property. Heck, back in the old days, we didn't use first names for elders either. It's not about a ball in a yard, it's about a complete lack of respect for personal property. I might have to post some pics of tennis ball damage to our last garage door. The dad's behavior was beyond immature. Maybe if he kept a better eye on his kids and take off the rose colored glasses he might learn a thing or two about his offspring.

To the OP, I know the frustration all too well. I am surrounded my children, dozens and dozens. Most of them are good kids, with the exception of a few that decided my front yard is the new wheelie bike track of the neighborhood. How can you blame them, with all the money I spend on a halfway decent yard, the grass is just stable and firm enough to provide a decent resistance to the bike races and spin out championship. When they get done, the tracks can be seen for a month. Of course, they are "just kids', and why be so hard on them. Didn't I ride a bike when I was younger? You betcha, but not on other people's yards. My grandfather would have had our hide in a flash.

I fenced in my back lot, 6 foot privacy fence. Now I just gotta figure out a way to get a 6 ft fence approved for my front.

Good luck with the delivery OP!

 

[Aardvarks]

I am with you. "Trespassing" usually involves some nefarious purpose. They are playing baseball for heaven's sake.

Hmmm yes......in the UK we have specific Tresspass laws

Tresspass with intent to steal

Tresspass with intent to cause criminal damage

In our village we have parks and a village green for the playing of ball games. Private gardens are for the contemplation of life, the universe and everything, the safe keeping of yound children and small dogs and the lighting of small tin trays containing lumpwood charcoal.

Owing to the unpredictability of the english summer, anything more than just the lighting is a source of pure fantasy and conjecture

 

[livndisney]

It seems like you are very protective of your property so you should get a fence. But ya know, I gotta say, I wouldn't think twice about neighbor kids playing ball and using my yard as the outfield. I might even take the opportunity to get to know them rather than harass them about where their balls landed. I honestly think your problem stems from not stating your feelings early on in boundary issue. These kids having been playing like this for years and all of a sudden the property line is an issue. They are children. No one explained to the Dad that their ball seemed to come directly at pregnant you AFTER they were asked to stay in their yard. Now you are the mean neighbors and it's too bad. Put up a 10ft fence, 6 ft will accomplish nothing. Next time you get new neighbors, wether it's you moving or them, make an effort to get to know them immediately. You say they never wave, etc. What is it that you specifically do to invite their friendship?

So not only does the OP have to teach the boys respect, she has to "explain" to their father how to respect property? I'm sorry I disagree.

Why would the OP "invite" the friendship of a family who allows their children to be rude?

 

[ilisao]

I am with you. "Trespassing" usually involves some nefarious purpose. They are playing baseball for heaven's sake.

Actually, the modern legal definiton of trespassing is the unauthorized entry onto land. There doesn't have to be a "nefarious" reason for someone to be considered a trespasser.

 

[Pumbaa_]

I find a sprinkler can do wonders for these issues.

My backyard and sideyard are all fenced in. This is to keep my dog safe and others out.

I live on a dead end street and the neighborhood tends to like to ride their bikes on our street. No big deal, doesn't bother me at all. Until...

Our driveway has a slight incline. The kids like to take their wheeled whatevers between our cars and ride down our driveway. Sorry, deal breaker for me. I have marks on the side of my car right about handle bar height. Kids no longer do that.

When some were taking a great interest in hanging around IN my front year (not street, not sidewalk), my DH just sets up a sprinkler and turns it on. Doesn't hurt anyone, and not warm enough out to be pleasant

Found it works quite well with 'barky' too. Neighbor in back's dog that will bark for hours at us while we are in the backyard, or my dog or my cat (she stays in the fenced year all the time, too 'fluffy' to make it over the fence)

Only had to put that on a couple times. Dog would go in soaking wet and I am sure a tad muddy. Sorry, don't feel bad. My yard is my yard. If I cannot even step out in it without being barked at (literally, the entire time we are out some days) then you do what you have to.

 

[janey99]

Thanks everyone for your continued comments!

We are still marvelling this morning that our neighbor felt incapable/unwilling to correct his 14yo son and his friends, but somehow thought it totally appropriate to march into the yard of people he doesn't even know and school them about how they should feel about their property rights.

Again, I completely respect that there are people who are laid back about kids coming into their yard, and thus, neighborhoods where that behavior is acceptable. However, this is not one of those neighborhoods.

To the posters who feel we are at fault for not addressing the issue sooner, I think some other posters gave bits and pieces of the reasoning, but I will collect it here - when the kids were smaller, it was whiffle ball bats and balls. The kids were not that big or strong, so the balls came into the yard far less. As they have grown, they have graduated to aluminum bats, tennis balls, and on several occasions, a lacrosse ball (have you ever seen how far a lacrosse ball can go when it is hit with an aluminum bat?!). They also have begun chipping golf balls (real ones, not practice ones). They have also progressed from running into the yard when the balls fly in to simply standing in my yard as part of thier extended play area. I am now getting concerned for my DS's and our dogs' safety as they play in the yard. What if some giant 14yo lunk runs down my 9yo DS while he's singlemindedly running after a ball? (as some have said, he will probably sue ME for injuries he sustains!) What if my new baby is resting in his carriage on the patio and a lacrosse ball crashes into him?

Also, we live in a neighborhood where most people are not particularly friendly or close (although these neighbors are singular in how dismissive they are of us - everyone else at least waves to each other). At the intervals that the problem happened, it somehow never seemed quite right to have a complaint be the reason we made any contact with them. We have also said mild comments to the kids themselves over the years. After last night's encounter, I can see that a conversation with the dad wouldn't have been well received anyway, whether I had made it on day one or yesterday. And of course, let's remember it was he who finally came over to our house because we had the temerity to confront his precious, not me or DH who went to him. Our original plan had been to grin and bear it until putting up the fence fit logically into the rest of the outdoor programming. Clearly, we have revisited that!

Finally, I find the comments that WE should have managed THEIR expectations really fascinating. When I think of my behavior vis a vis someone else's yard, I would never think I was invited there at my whim until I was instructed otherwise, in fact, I would assume exactly the opposite. The idea that I would constantly have to aggressively defend my quiet enjoyment of my property is really pretty foreign to me - isn't the fact that we shouldn't have to do that what separates us modern suburbanites from the huns or the goths?!

To Aardvarks - your comment cracked me up - my DH is in fact an Englishman, via Bermuda - while it's true you don't mess with an Englishman's property rights, you REALLY don't mess with a colonist's!

Thanks again all for the interesting perspectives -

Jane

PS - DH is on the phone with a fence company right now!

 

[dogluva]

Your neighbors are my neighbors. They have not spoken to us unless it is to swear at me or my children the whole five years we have been here. They watched from their window when we moved in. I waved. They stared back with angry faces. I guess they were drinking buddies with the people who moved out and we didn't fit the mold. Their teen age son is mean, angry and horrible. He bullies my eight year old., screams at my dogs who are in the backyard.

I have just accepted it as the way he is being raised. My kids (three teens) don't act that way because they would be on the moon if they did. They, hopefully, will be productive citizens someday and this kids who has never been taught common courtesy and respect will not be unless things change.

People just want to make excuses for their kdis instead of teaching them responsibility.

 

[dogluva]

I really don't think a tennis ball will cause damage to a house or garage no matter how hard you hit it.

I do agree the rudeness was uncalled for but I still don't see it as a big deal to have a ball hit in the yard. It takes a Village and I would gladly embrace all the balls of my neighbor's kids...lol.

That is you-she doesn't want it and I cannot blame her. Especially since these people have not been very neighborly (haven't even waved in six years?). If they were on good terms, meaning the neighbors were a little nicer, then maybe I would say, oh, let them. But these kids are rude and disrespectful and so is the father (no wonder the kids are).

It takes a village and that means teaching these kids respect and boundaries. Obviously, no one on their house has so that is what they are doing.

Also, the OP is about to give birth. Once the baby is home, she really does not need the noise and stress of kids in her yard. NOw is the time to stop it.

 

[dogluva]

It seems like you are very protective of your property so you should get a fence. But ya know, I gotta say, I wouldn't think twice about neighbor kids playing ball and using my yard as the outfield. I might even take the opportunity to get to know them rather than harass them about where their balls landed. I honestly think your problem stems from not stating your feelings early on in boundary issue. These kids having been playing like this for years and all of a sudden the property line is an issue. They are children. No one explained to the Dad that their ball seemed to come directly at pregnant you AFTER they were asked to stay in their yard. Now you are the mean neighbors and it's too bad. Put up a 10ft fence, 6 ft will accomplish nothing. Next time you get new neighbors, wether it's you moving or them, make an effort to get to know them immediately. You say they never wave, etc. What is it that you specifically do to invite their friendship?

Our neighbors were the same way. I tried talking to them, they went in the house. I waved and was ignored. My kids were yelled at, they called the dog catcher on us when our 12 year old dog sat on our steps in our yard the first time we moved in and then sent the 12 year old son to tell us that there is a leash law. Well, yes, we know but the dog is on our property and does not have the energy to even go to the end of the driveway. Some neighbors are rude and that is the way it is.

 

[momrek06]

Ahhh...we own a Land Surveying Co....licensed in MA and CT......it is this that keeps us in business.

OP, get a survey, mark off your property and install a fence. It is called peace of mind.

I said to DH one day, "land is funny" and he said "nope, people are funny"!!!! We get more calls like this thread daily. Kinda sad in a way as we see it more and more and I just wish people respected each other's space/property.

Good Luck with the babe. Not a time to be stressed out at all.

 

[LisaB]

In a nearby town in RI neighbors on one street had a similar thing going on. One neighbor upset that children's balls would frquently go into his yard. About a week ago during a child's birthday a ball went into this neighbor's yard. He came out and began yelling (a former cop by the way). Neighbor (dad of birthday child) came over, words escalated to fight, which escalated to neighbor shooting and killing birthday child's dad (a city firefighter)! Would it annoy me? Probably. Would I speak to family? Not sure, but probably not. I also grew up in a neighborhood where we played in everyone's yard. My kids have done the same where we live. They gorw up fast and leave. I wouldn't want to have angry older teens as neighbors. It could make life miserable. If you are truly that bothered by this I think a fence is the way to go. I would expect to hear balls hitting the fence once it is up though.

My DH was the firefighter lieutenant at his first firefighter job. The last time we saw Jim was at the hospital when his wife gave birth to his son two days before Diana was born. This really hit home. You really need to be careful because you don't really know how this neighbor might react. Now two families lives are ruined and two children will not grow up with their Dad

 

[Jcricket Fan]

OP I don't see any reason that you should have to justify your thoughts on why you want the neighbors off of your property.

It's your property. Period. If others want to have people on their land then that is what they should do or allow.

It's not a children issue it is a parenting issue. Clearly after having talked with the father of the offending children you will have no assistance from him in his parenting his children and the showing of respect to you/your property in this case.

It should not matter how much time has elapsed in them coming on to your property. You have explained it NOW that you don't want them to continue to use your yard for anything they are doing. That is your right. It should be respected NOW.

So sorry that we have come to the point where these stories are more common then not. I guess simple respect really isn't all that simple.

Best wishes for your new baby!

Peace.
Colleen

 

[beckanoah]

Bad neighbors can be so frustrating! We live in a great area and have great neighbors (mostly) but the ones right next door have two teens that live there and love to cause trouble.

Last fall they and a few friends were walking down the alley and I SAW them pick up a dead squirrel and throw it INTO my picket fenced yard where my 6 year old daughter was playing. I threw that door open so fast... called them on it and made them come get the squirrel. They were STUNNED and started stuttering... (wish I'd had a camera)

In the past 2 years they have ridden extremely loud motored bikes up and down the road till past midnight... set off fireworks for 6 straight weeks nearl 4th of July in a drought! Several rockets were found near and on our roof! They break onto the golf course behind the house and ride back there. They throw dead animals over that fence too. They shoot at animals with bb guns! They have destroyed a small bridge crossing a creek behind another neighbors house and turned it into a motorbike ramp. That neighbor who is in her late 70's went out to fix it and fell and broke her wrist in two spots and split her chin open 4 inches. They and their older sister drive 60 mph down the road (it's a 30 mph speed limit by the way! The whole neighborhood is praying they leave for college soon.

 

[janey99]

My DH was the firefighter lieutenant at his first firefighter job. The last time we saw Jim was at the hospital when his wife gave birth to his son two days before Diana was born. This really hit home. You really need to be careful because you don't really know how this neighbor might react. Now two families lives are ruined and two children will not grow up with their Dad

What a horrifying and sad story! My heart goes out to both families.

We do not plan to engage these people directly anymore. As I mentioned, DH has already called a few fence places this morning, and one is coming out to provide an estimate in a week and a half (seems to be a busy time of year for fencing ). This gives us enough time to put a CAD plan together and submit an application to the town.

I'm sure there will be plenty of gratuitous rudeness and additional property line dancing in the interim, but we will suck it up until the fence is installed.

Jane

 

[momrek06]

What a horrifying and sad story! My heart goes out to both families.

We do not plan to engage these people directly anymore. As I mentioned, DH has already called a few fence places this morning, and one is coming out to provide an estimate in a week and a half (seems to be a busy time of year for fencing ). This gives us enough time to put a CAD plan together and submit an application to the town.

I'm sure there will be plenty of gratuitous rudeness and additional property line dancing in the interim, but we will suck it up until the fence is installed.

Jane

I do not think you even have to do this.....like I said we are land surveyors and we research your deed, we then locate your pins and mark the property lines. The only thing I believe you need to do (and every town is different) is stop into see the Building Inspector, tell him what your plans are, he will issue you a building permit (will cost a fee) for the fence and the fence co may mention this as well. Some fence co's do not care about the permit as that is essentially your responsiblity and other fence co's just like to see that you pulled the permit. I am not sure why you need to do a CAD plan.

I had fencing (8ft stockade) done in my yard and I ordered the fencing in March and when it came (8 weeks later) they installed it like around May. (This was last year). So yes, fence co's are busy all the time.

 

[janey99]

I do not think you even have to do this.....like I said we are land surveyors and we research your deed, we then locate your pins and mark the property lines. The only thing I believe you need to do (and every town is different) is stop into see the Building Inspector, tell him what your plans are, he will issue you a building permit (will cost a fee) for the fence and the fence co may mention this as well. Some fence co's do not care about the permit as that is essentially your responsiblity and other fence co's just like to see that you pulled the permit. I am not sure why you need to do a CAD plan.

I had fencing (8ft stockade) done in my yard and I ordered the fencing in March and when it came (8 weeks later) they installed it like around May. (This was last year). So yes, fence co's are busy all the time.

In our town, you have to apply for a one-page zoning permit to do fencing and other small things on your property that don't require a full construction permit. It has to include at least 2 clean plot plans and two versions showing your proposed improvement. Ours will be in CAD because DH is a landscape architect and CAD is his best friend!

We are also going to get a full sealed survey done, since there is some chance the neighbor could run out of his house and try to shut down the whole process by claiming we're not following the property line correctly. If he cares to spend the money to hire his own surveyor, he can feel free, but I suspect at 500$ a pin, any protest will die down pretty quickly.

I can only dream of 8 foot stockade - 6 is the limit here and what we will choose. We will also plant up the fence with 12-17 foot trees, so we will get some extra screening that way.

Thanks for your comments!

Jane

 

[momrek06]

In our town, you have to apply for a one-page zoning permit to do fencing and other small things on your property that don't require a full construction permit. It has to include at least 2 clean plot plans and two versions showing your proposed improvement. Ours will be in CAD because DH is a landscape architect and CAD is his best friend!

We are also going to get a full sealed survey done, since there is some chance the neighbor could run out of his house and try to shut down the whole process by claiming we're not following the property line correctly. If he cares to spend the money to hire his own surveyor, he can feel free, but I suspect at 500$ a pin, any protest will die down pretty quickly.

I can only dream of 8 foot stockade - 6 is the limit here and what we will choose. We will also plant up the fence with 12-17 foot trees, so we will get some extra screening that way.

Thanks for your comments!

Jane

One point also is that licensed land surveyors (such as my DH and whoever you are hiring) have every single right to "trespass" (for lack of a better word) onto your neighbors property in every attempt to complete the survey. Just be prepared when the neighbors give your surveyor a hard time at all and they tell him (or you) he is trespassing... HE IS NOT. My DH has had to call the police a few times in his lifetime of surveying. Mention to the surveyor that you hire; that this is a neighbor issue with the kiddos. The surveyor will or will not ask, but it is always good to keep him aware.

You know you and DH can get started researching allot of this as MOST TOWNS and CTY'S; all deeds are recorded at your local or city Registry and they are all online. You can find YOUR deed and HIS deed. Also, you probably have plot plans in your files at home that you were given at the closing of your home.

Oh the 8ft is awesome. We only have it on our back lot line as a major road abuts our property and we did not want to see it or hear it. Loving the 8ft. Also, I understand and check with your Building Inspector and the fence co but you can put the nicer side of the fence facing YOU. WE DID!

Get several survey estimates. They will (most likely) give you a free quote.