GM to lay off 30,000 people

[chrissyk]

Right. Someone making 25K a year can afford to fund a Health Savings Account? Get a clue. The only result from Republicans pushing Health Savings Accounts will be that more poor people will be without Health Care. And don't think that the Republicans are targeting only blue collar folks for Health Savings Accounts, they want no companies to fund health insurance, not even for white collar workers. So, while we all sit here, not getting raises, not receiving cost of living increases, we will have to absorb thousands of dollars in Health Savings Account costs. This is your future as an American when you vote Republican.

Are you aware that companies can fund HSAs 100% for their employees if they so choose? They can use HRAs to reimburse their employees for purchasing individual health insurance policies too if they so choose. If you are making 25K a year and can't afford to fund these items on your own, you will select an employer who offers the benefits. I think that all employers will offer this benefit in some form or another shortly. Something like 25% of all companies are already offering the HSA/high-deductable insurance combo already as an option. Pretty soon, it will be the ONLY option. The days of employer-sponsored defined-benefit insurance are rapidly coming to an end. Companies just can't afford to offer it anymore. That's reality, and unfortunately, everyone is going to have to "get a clue" about it sooner or later.

 

[CarolA]

Hmm... wonder why only men around 20 want two seaters (at least in someone's thought pattern)

I have a convertible that "thoretically"seats more then two (they better be REALLY SHORT LOL!) and I am WELL over 20 and female.
Ducklite is buying a two seater. I have no idea how old she is, but my instinct is over 20 and I am pretty sure she's female.

What I wonder is... Did GM/Ford etc.. just assume that ALL of us need a TANK??? Now when gas prices went up and tank sales decreased they are really hurting.

 

[TDC Nala]

I had a twoseater for 10 years (Honda Del Sol) and I loved that car. I got tired of looking at the hubcaps of Expeditions so I traded it in. My Chrysler isn't going to last that long, I know it.

 

[eclectics]

Hmm... wonder why only men around 20 want two seaters (at least in someone's thought pattern)

I have a convertible that "thoretically"seats more then two (they better be REALLY SHORT LOL!) and I am WELL over 20 and female.
Ducklite is buying a two seater. I have no idea how old she is, but my instinct is over 20 and I am pretty sure she's female.

What I wonder is... Did GM/Ford etc.. just assume that ALL of us need a TANK??? Now when gas prices went up and tank sales decreased they are really hurting.

All the auto companies go on hunches as well as research about what type of vehicle is going to sell the best. They manufacture more of, and concentrate on, that one type. Unfortunately when they gamble wrong, we the consumer are the ones that have to pay, in one form or another, such as higher prices or lost jobs. It's the American corporate way.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

While I know some will disagree, the facts prove what I'm about to say.

Unions kill jobs.

An overwhelming number of companies that have shut their doors over the past ten years have been union shops. They have gone under while their non-union competition has thrived. Case in point, airlines. While union bsed legacy carriers struggle, Southwest thrives. Case in point, grocery stores. While Grand Union went belly up, Wegman's gladly moved in and thrived.

Were unions at one point in history neccessary? Absolutely. However they have become beaucratic, power hungry, and fueled by nepotism. In many cases, members are getting nothing for their dues that they wouldn't get from management anyhow.

Many corporations are greedy. Absolutely. They have an obligation to their shareholders to control spending. My point is that employees should be making a fair wage based on prevailing market rates, not what a union feels they deserve. Why does someone who pushes a button on an assembly line all day deserve more than a prevailing wage--which is probably a lot less than they are making That job could be done by any untrained, unskilled person who would be thrilled to make $9 per hour with minimal benefits. It would also allow the US to compete at least a bit better in teh global economy.

I don't understand why someone with skills that aren't marketable in any field other than the one they are in, with no education past a HS diploma feels that they should be making $20-30 per hour on an assembly line. If they think they could find a better job, they are welcome to it. This is a free market economy, and with the ability to outsource jobs to the lowest bidder, those in many unions had best be taking some sort of training for a more marketable skill. The unions are hemmorhaging industry, and if they don't step back and realize it now, and work with industry rather than against it, they are only harming themselves.

Industry big wigs will receive fat severance packages and have skills which will allow them to move on. The guy working on the assembly line won't be so lucky. And he has no one to blame but his union.

Anne

Anne - usually when you are wrong I just shake my head. But before you started a diatribe on unions, you should check your facts. Southwest Airlines is one of the MOST unionized airlines - more than 85% of its workforce is in a union.

 

[Chicago526]

If you are making 25K a year and can't afford to fund these items on your own, you will select an employer who offers the benefits.

I don't think anyone that makes $25,000 a year has a choice of employers to begin with, otherwise they wouldn't be making $25,000 a year!

That said, I think you're right, a lot of companies will go towards programs like this. I'm not that old, but didn't people pay part of the health care costs before HMO's came on the scene 20 or 30 years ago? I think my parents had a policy that was 80/20, this was in the late 70's. The insurance paid 80% and my parents paid 20%. Am I wrong or was this more the norm for the average American back then? If I'm right, then people managed back then, so I'm sure they'll manage now.

 

[chrissyk]

I don't think anyone that makes $25,000 a year has a choice of employers to begin with, otherwise they wouldn't be making $25,000 a year!

That said, I think you're right, a lot of companies will go towards programs like this. I'm not that old, but didn't people pay part of the health care costs before HMO's came on the scene 20 or 30 years ago? I think my parents had a policy that was 80/20, this was in the late 70's. The insurance paid 80% and my parents paid 20%. Am I wrong or was this more the norm for the average American back then? If I'm right, then people managed back then, so I'm sure they'll manage now.

I don't know if it was the norm or not, but that was the kind of insurance that my family had in the '70's too. It was called something like BC/BS indemnity, and you paid 20% up to some deductable max.

 

[ducklite]

Anne - usually when you are wrong I just shake my head. But before you started a diatribe on unions, you should check your facts. Southwest Airlines is one of the MOST unionized airlines - more than 85% of its workforce is in a union.

Oops! For some reason I was under the impression they aren't union. OK, disregard that one and move to the grocery store example. That one I'm absolutely sure of. Sorry for the misinformation.

Anne

 

[Planogirl]

I think my parents had a policy that was 80/20, this was in the late 70's. The insurance paid 80% and my parents paid 20%. Am I wrong or was this more the norm for the average American back then? If I'm right, then people managed back then, so I'm sure they'll manage now.

80/20 appears to still be typical but keep in mind that the inflation rate of that 20% has far outpaced salary increases. In other words, a worker's portion will take a much bigger bite out of their income nowadays.

 

[eclectics]

80/20 appears to still be typical but keep in mind that the inflation rate of that 20% has far outpaced salary increases. In other words, a worker's portion will take a much bigger bite out of their income nowadays.

If this country finally starts to deal with health care costs and starts a real bi-partisan debate on finding ways to make health care affordable for the average joe, we won't have to keep having this as a issue. I'm not sure what the answer is, but pretending the problem is not there, as most in Washington are doing, is only going to make it worse down the road.

 

[CharlesTD]

The funny thing about this is GM has a 750 million dollar contract with the province of Ontario to build a number of manufatcuring facilities and upgrade current ones so that money is still funneling into our province regardless of the shut downs.

 

[nativetxn]

OH YIKES! Lansing? This isn't good

 

[wvrevy]

If this country finally starts to deal with health care costs and starts a real bi-partisan debate on finding ways to make health care affordable for the average joe, we won't have to keep having this as a issue. I'm not sure what the answer is, but pretending the problem is not there, as most in Washington are doing, is only going to make it worse down the road.

Nice sentiment...now, where are you going to find a second party that gives a rat's hind quarters about the "average joe" ? Sure, the Dems will fight for health care for everyone...but if you honestly expect the republicans to abandon their cash cows for the sake of the "average joe", you're in for an awfully long wait.

The one thing the Dems do that hold up the process (aside from supporting those dastardly unions...lol) is fight against restrictive legal restraints on law suits. Sure, part of that is due to their own cash cow (the trial lawyers). But part of it is also the belief that billion dollar industries are not going to be frightened away from a large potential profit by the potential for a ten thousand dollar lawsuit. Think a company like Union Carbide would worry about releasing pollutants into the air and water if the threat of a class action suit by their victims wasn't there ? If so, you've got WAY too much faith in big corporations to ignore profit for the sake of the public welfare.

Besides...why would anyone want to try to fix the health care problem in this country ? The last person that did was called everything from a communist to names that wouldn't get past the word filter on this site...and the very thought of her running for president next year has the republicans in such a tizzy that they are already trying to swift boat her in any way they can. Forget social security...health care has become the real third rail of American politics.

 

[Geoff_M]

Besides...why would anyone want to try to fix the health care problem in this country ?

It ain't "fixed" even in countries that "fixed" it the way she wanted to "fix" it here. For example the CEO of AFLAC recently commented on the insurance market in Japan. Japan "fixed" their health care system with a nationalized system years ago, but as real costs of health care have continued to increase the co-pay has been periodically raised from 10% to 30% now. So in Japan AFLAC is looking at offering health insurance to cover what their "fixed" system doesn't cover. How's that for surreal?

As for the GM situation, it stinks.... particularly for Lansing, MI that is quickly becoming Flint, Part Deux. Oldsmobile imploded there, and now another operation is going bye-bye.

 

[N.Bailey]

Anne - usually when you are wrong I just shake my head. But before you started a diatribe on unions, you should check your facts. Southwest Airlines is one of the MOST unionized airlines - more than 85% of its workforce is in a union.

I have a friend who works for Delta. They are non union and are severely hurting right now.

I don't like blanket statements at all.

 

[nwdisgal]

both of my AMERICAN cars (Fords) are made in Canada. We can not buy AMERICAN (cars or otherwise) as we do not make a whole lot of goods in the US anymore.

That is very good point. You have imported cars manufactured to some extent in the US, and traditional US manufactured cars, subcontracting many of their components overseas. To find a car that is completely manufactured in the US is virtually impossible.

I do feel very sad for the people being affected by the layoffs. I agree, what terrible timing-before the holidays. I had a fomer life in a heavy cyclical industry that was prone to layoffs, so I can relate. I had many friends who lost jobs and saw the effects locally on the economy.

 

[MICKEY88]

.

I feel for those who are losing their jobs-it would have been nice to announce this information after the holidays.

.

to a point I agree, but on the other hand, if I were involved I'd rather know before I spent a lot of money on Christmas

 

[eclectics]

That is very good point. You have imported cars manufactured to some extent in the US, and traditional US manufactured cars, subcontracting many of their components overseas. To find a car that is completely manufactured in the US is virtually impossible.

I do feel very sad for the people being affected by the layoffs. I agree, what terrible timing-before the holidays. I had a fomer life in a heavy cyclical industry that was prone to layoffs, so I can relate. I had many friends who lost jobs and saw the effects locally on the economy.

And most people who fly on a Boeing airplane think they are flying American. Wrong! While some of the plane is made here, most of the aircraft parts are manufactured overseas and shipped here. Boeing is mainly just the assembler.

 

[DWDreams]

You left out one IMPORTANT subsidy. What the goverments pay for both Medicaid and Medicare is woefully inadequte. So what we are asking insurance companies and employers to do is make up the difference. Medicare barely pays for basic hospital coverage. If a hospital is solely dependent on Medicare and Medicaid there is very little money left over for new capital improvements. That means when you get admitted, there is no new state of the art MRI, Litho, OR equipment etc....

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!

No question medicare/medicaid rates are much lower, but I think those rates could be succesfully swallowed by other means if they weren't becoming such an overwhelmingly huge slice of the population pie. We have a whole lot of people utilizing medicare and medicaid that maybe shouldn't be, and we are all paying in a whole lot of ways as a result of it.

 

[Zurealsoon]

What has to change? More people need to BUY AMERICAN. Too many are buying foreign cars. Back in the day american cars were not as good. But for quite awhile now they have been rated as good, if not better.


.....

When I was young and foolish, I bought American cars. Lots of problems, repairs and Lemons.

Last American vehicles we bought were 9 years ago.
Now own one toyota and 3 Nissans-and 3 of the 4 were actually manufactured in American Plants.

I attend the new car shows yearly and mostly skip the American areas-the vehicles have no style, no pizzaz, nothing to make me want to own one.