Getting very tired of resale brokers who feel like ghosting is OK. Marking them off my list one by one.

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Totally agree. I also question what folks define as flooded, or as I saw earlier upstream, a "deluge" of emails. I mean seriously, how many could there possibly be? Certainly not so many that a broker can't even acknowledge the offer in a simple email.

If you’re getting 3 or 30, or even 300, the the best thing you could do is have a cut and paste sentence that reads “thank you for your interest, at this time, the seller is only countering offers above [$/pt]” or “thank you for your interest, based on recent comparable sales, the buyer is not willing to sell below [$/pt]” — we’re talking 30 seconds per email tops, and if you send 10 of those, you might actually get one or two much higher counters, maybe even the price your seller wants.

Pasting that sentence 300 times is still a grand total of what 1-2 hours worth of work?

A decent chunk of the BCV contracts that passed on negotiating with me in summer (I would have paid $125 for a normal contract, probably $140ish loaded) are still on the market today—I’m sitting on 2024 points in my account that I picked up at $115/pt…they are getting ready to pay 2024 dues (on a contract that lost about 6% of its total remaining life).

 

[Jimmy Geppetto]

Actually, they’re dual brokers, representing both parties. What you’re suggesting could be viewed as biased/discriminatory business practice.

It’s not up to an employee to judge a situation based on an assumed outcome. If this person were to act like you describe, and was interviewing for the job they hold and advertising this method of doing business, I’d bet they would not get hired. I cannot imagine any business owner would be OK with treating potential buyers poorly. But perhaps this is ok for some companies, and is their right to conduct business as they choose. I’m just saying, it does come back to them eventually. And they may be ok with that too. Cest La vie

Before anyone writes brokers off… Just make a full price offer on a few of their listings and reverse the tables.

 

[gottalovepluto]

1. Demand is high enough they don't need you so why pay an IT person to create a system to auto-generate?
2. Demand is high enough they actively do not want you to waste their company's time

Either way congratulations on narrowing it down to only 1 or so brokers so you don't waste anymore of your time!

 

[Paul Stupin]

Actually, they’re dual brokers, representing both parties. What you’re suggesting could be viewed as biased/discriminatory business practice.

It’s not up to an employee to judge a situation based on an assumed outcome. If this person were to act like you describe, and was interviewing for the job they hold and advertising this method of doing business, I’d bet they would not get hired. I cannot imagine any business owner would be OK with treating potential buyers poorly. But perhaps this is ok for some companies, and is their right to conduct business as they choose. I’m just saying, it does come back to them eventually. And they may be ok with that too. Cest La vie

But, regardless of whether or not your outrage is justified, your strategy could recoil on you as well, where more and more brokers just decide you’re not worth dealing with. That limits your options far more than it does theirs.

 

[thelionqueen]

But, regardless of whether or not your outrage is justified, your strategy could recoil on you as well, where more and more brokers just decide you’re not worth dealing with. That limits your options far more than it does theirs.

If you’re suggesting that a company would willingly write off customers based on a personal opinion, I think that’s quite a stretch and relatively unlikely. However, any company that doesn’t want to work with a serious & qualified buyer will not need to work with me..I’ll remove myself which I exactly my reason for this post. I refuse to excuse poor business practices anymore, regardless of previous experiences.

 

[Paul Stupin]

If you’re suggesting that a company would willingly write off customers based on a personal opinion, I think that’s quite a stretch and relatively unlikely. However, any company that doesn’t want to work with a serious & qualified buyer will not need to work with me..I’ll remove myself which I exactly my reason for this post. I refuse to excuse poor business practices anymore, regardless of previous experiences.

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m suggesting! If I was a broker, and my personal opinion, based on past experience, was that I would never get a reasonable offer from a particular buyer, I would probably write them off as well. And frankly I wouldn’t care at all if I never heard from them again. But maybe that’s just me!

 

[robinb]

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m suggesting! If I was a broker, and my personal opinion, based on past experience, was that I would never get a reasonable offer from a particular buyer, I would probably write them off as well. And frankly I wouldn’t care at all if I never heard from them again. But maybe that’s just me!

That is just human nature.

If a person repeatedly wastes your time and makes you angry (in any capacity) it is human nature to start to start to tune them out. I would believe that some brokers are simply starting to ignore some of @thelionqueen's lowball offers.

Now, in anger and retaliation, she is ignoring them.

NEITHER action makes any sense from a business standpoint. Frankly, @thelionqueen, I think you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you really wanted the best price for a resale you would not make your broker list smaller. One day an offer to your one of your "blackballed brokers" may get through. You really won't know for sure if you don't try.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

If a person repeatedly wastes your time and makes you angry (in any capacity) it is human nature to start to start to tune them out. I would believe that some brokers are simply starting to ignore some of @thelionqueen's lowball offers.

I think what many of us who bought resale find frustrating is (a) how emotional some brokers seem to behave over DVC contracts (which are basically a commodity) and (b) that brokers many seem to be delusional about what is and isn’t a lowball offer.

Perfect example, over on the ROFR thread, people were surprised to see BLT at $120/pt hit the Orange County registered deeds and speculated that a price that low had to be some special situation (it was kind of deal that some people would claim was fake just to get “likes” on ROFR thread except it was the actual deed)—but then within 24 hours two other people sent similar or better deals to ROFR!

I don’t know the details but I would be surprised if the OP is sending offers that are dramatically lower than prices seen on ROFR, and if it’s 10% lower than fair price, why not just counter with the fair price? Or, as a broker who wants to make money, why not take the 30 seconds to email “Thanks for your interest but the seller of this contract won’t go below [amount you want]?

 

[thelionqueen]

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m suggesting! If I was a broker, and my personal opinion, based on past experience, was that I would never get a reasonable offer from a particular buyer, I would probably write them off as well. And frankly I wouldn’t care at all if I never heard from them again. But maybe that’s just me!

So you’d take your own opinion of what you consider an unreasonable offer and decide to reply based on your perception? You do you. However, I doubt many businesses would find a single person acting on personal opinion & ignoring basic customer service as acceptable behavior. That is what we’re discussing here..BASIC customer service.

Hopefully a person with that view would own the company and be well aware of the ripple effect that kind of service creates, and has no desire to grow their business long term.

I’ve bought, sold & referred others buying/selling thousands if not tens of thousands of points and have a social media network of over 50,000 combined subscribers. So yeah, not a great business move to try to justify a lack of professionalism and 30 seconds of common courtesy because you don’t want to do a job you’re paid to do.

In this day and age of social media, it’s not smart to exhibit behaviors that others will relay to their networks. I can say, with verifiable proof of recorded deeds, within the last 6 months alone, over 5,000 points bought and/or sold, went to brokers who display professionalism and courtesy vs ones that didn’t. Multiply that by 10 fold every year.. might just be worth 30 seconds of work. So yeah who cares about one person who annoys you with low offers, but that one person could influence thousands or hundreds of thousands.

 

[disneylandtour]

Most brokers, in my experience, are great.

A couple of observations. These contracts net the broker's office about 8.5% . A $20K contract gets the office about $1,700. If it's like real estate, about half goes to the office, about half to the broker who sold/listed the contract. This is not a tremendous amount of money for a full-time job--or even a part-time job. Some of these offices sell around 10 contracts a week, but have a few brokers; others do sell more. So maybe keep that in mind--that the expectations here should be far different than for a realtor, as the money is far, far less.

Also, IMO, lowish viable offers are maybe up-to 20% off asking (unless it's wildly overpriced--but why are you looking at these anyway?). If your offer is 35% off listing, maybe you shouldn't get too upset if you don't get a reply. Also, maybe don't flood the same broker with a line of low bid offers.

And, if I make an offer, I wait a day. If I don't hear back, I send an email ("Did the seller respond?"). And then I wait another day. If no response, I move on. And I think that's perfectly fair: 48 hours with no response means moving on.

Lastly, most of the problematic brokers work for two places, in my experience. Businesses have office culture. I'm pretty sure that two of these resalers have developed cultures where they've decided it's OK to ignore potential customers. (My guess: there's larger cultural problems there--but this is one way that it's affecting their business model.)

 

[Sandisw]

So you’d take your own opinion of what you consider an unreasonable offer and decide to reply based on your perception? You do you. However, I doubt many businesses would find a single person acting on personal opinion & ignoring basic customer service as acceptable behavior. That is what we’re discussing here..BASIC customer service.

Hopefully a person with that view would own the company and be well aware of the ripple effect that kind of service creates, and has no desire to grow their business long term.

I’ve bought, sold & referred others buying/selling thousands if not tens of thousands of points and have a social media network of over 50,000 combined subscribers. So yeah, not a great business move to try to justify a lack of professionalism and 30 seconds of common courtesy because you don’t want to do a job you’re paid to do.

In this day and age of social media, it’s not smart to exhibit behaviors that others will relay to their networks. I can say, with verifiable proof of recorded deeds, within the last 6 months alone, over 5,000 points bought and/or sold, went to brokers who display professionalism and courtesy vs ones that didn’t. Multiply that by 10 fold every year.. might just be worth 30 seconds of work. So yeah who cares about one person who annoys you with low offers, but that one person could influence thousands or hundreds of thousands.

As someone who has sold well over 6 contracts, I made clear to my brokers that my bottom line was not to be shared with buyers and my guess is they never will, nor should they share that.

The point is that many here on the Dis do seem, in fact, have a much different view of lower offers not being low than I bet the average public does.

I still think that beyond a “we received your offer”, if an offer is much below what they are seeing happening…which as a buyer you don’t know what they are seeing…no action is needed if they have directions from the seller.

 

[thelionqueen]

Most brokers, in my experience, are great.

A couple of observations. These contracts net the broker's office about 8.5% . A $20K contract gets the office about $1,700. If it's like real estate, about half goes to the office, about half to the broker who sold/listed the contract. This is not a tremendous amount of money for a full-time job--or even a part-time job. Some of these offices sell around 10 contracts a week, but have a few brokers; others do sell more. So maybe keep that in mind--that the expectations here should be far different than for a realtor, as the money is far, far less.

Also, IMO, lowish viable offers are maybe up-to 20% off asking (unless it's wildly overpriced--but why are you looking at these anyway?). If your offer is 35% off listing, maybe you shouldn't get too upset if you don't get a reply. Also, maybe don't flood the same broker with a line of low bid offers.

And, if I make an offer, I wait a day. If I don't hear back, I send an email ("Did the seller respond?"). And then I wait another day. If no response, I move on. And I think that's perfectly fair: 48 hours with no response means moving on.

Lastly, most of the problematic brokers work for two places, in my experience. Businesses have office culture. I'm pretty sure that two of these resalers have developed cultures where they've decided it's OK to ignore potential customers. (My guess: there's larger cultural problems there--but this is one way that it's affecting their business model.)

All fair points, thank you for your perspective! I totally agree on several points, don't necessarily disagree with any honestly, just look at the same situation differently. I believe the margins are small, and your figures seem pretty on point (calculations are not my strength, so I am going to go with your numbers .

One thing that immediately stuck out is the volume of sales... with which I agree. I seriously doubt (although could be dead wrong) brokers are so inundated with offers that they don't have 60 seconds to do a basic job. That said, let's say they are. No time for breaks, no time to breathe, and working 50+ hours a week. Even so.. that does not separate one from doing their job. As a dual broker, you are to represent the seller and buyer, regardless if you make more or less on a sale.

An excellent example of who this process "should" work (imho) is @JimmyGeppetto who, arguably, has gotten the most unbelievable resales deals of all time (my hero). His offers are far below what I would feel comfortable offering (earlier this year anyway), and remember, I'm a waste of time, should be ignored, lowball offers, etc... Well, the broker, took his offer to the seller.. low & behold, they figured out a deal. The broker didn't judge the offer, they did their J-O-B, and represented the buyer. The seller didn't find it offensive, nor did Disney, as the passed it in ROFR. It is simply one example that one's opinion doesn't equate universally, and shouldn't be used in place of basic job duties and common courtesy.

Would every broker LOVE to have the buyer who buys listings at advertised price, no haggling with cash? Heck yeah!! Would a car dealer LOVE to have someone write a check for MSRP on their most expensive car? Absolutely!! Is the buyer who wants the lowest priced used car on the lot to be ignored? Each individuals answer to that question speaks for itself. I personally believe all customers should be treated with respect and common courtesy regardless of commission.

 

[thelionqueen]

As someone who has sold well over 6 contracts, I made clear to my brokers that my bottom line was not to be shared with buyers and my guess is they never will, nor should they share that.

The point is that many here on the Dis do seem, in fact, have a much different view of lower offers not being low than I bet the average public does.

I still think that beyond a “we received your offer”, if an offer is much below what they are seeing happening…which as a buyer you don’t know what they are seeing…no action is needed if they have directions from the seller.

I agree, anyone's bottom line price should not be shared, which feeds exactly into this thread. Who knows what that threshold is? Only the seller, unless it is shared with the broker. Also, these resellers are dual-brokers, they are supposed to represent both parties.. by ignoring an offer, they are simply not fulfilling the basic duties they are charged with.

And I absolutely agree with Diser's being specific customers.. and a small percentage of total sales. But I disagree with a broker just ignoring a buyer because their offer is not in the range of what they usually see, it is literally their basic job function to represent both parties without bias. Judging an offer and choosing to abandon their duties is just not OK imo. The buyer is trying to get the best deal they can. The websites specifically direct visitors to submit offers. As sellers wouldn't tell anyone their bottom number, offers are generally lower than a buyer is willing to pay, it's just a starting point.

So, if I make an offer and get no response, am I to assume my offer was too low and walk away? Sure, I can do that. Do I assume my offer was never received due to a technical difficulty and reach out again? Sure, I can do that. Or, alternatively, the broker can do their job and represent both equally and courteously and take LITERALLY 30 seconds to copy/paste a reply thanking them for the offer, but the seller has declined. Sure they could do that. Many different ways to see and or respond to this scenario. It's not like we're buying lunch at McD's.. in most instances.. we're talking tens of thousand of dollars. Although not huge money to a company overall, pretty important to me. Basic job functions and common courtesy seems pretty straight forward to me, but that's just how I see it. I totally understand other reasoning, and can make sense depending on how you look at it, I just don't see why it's so hard to take 30 seconds to be respectful.

 

[Sandisw]

I agree, anyone's bottom line price should not be shared, which feeds exactly into this thread. Who knows what that threshold is? Only the seller, unless it is shared with the broker. Also, these resellers are dual-brokers, they are supposed to represent both parties.. by ignoring an offer, they are simply not fulfilling the basic duties they are charged with.

And I absolutely agree with Diser's being specific customers.. and a small percentage of total sales. But I disagree with a broker just ignoring a buyer because their offer is not in the range of what they usually see, it is literally their basic job function to represent both parties without bias. Judging an offer and choosing to abandon their duties is just not OK imo. The buyer is trying to get the best deal they can. The websites specifically direct visitors to submit offers. As sellers wouldn't tell anyone their bottom number, offers are generally lower than a buyer is willing to pay, it's just a starting point.

So, if I make an offer and get no response, am I to assume my offer was too low and walk away? Sure, I can do that. Do I assume my offer was never received due to a technical difficulty and reach out again? Sure, I can do that. Or, alternatively, the broker can do their job and represent both equally and courteously and take LITERALLY 30 seconds to copy/paste a reply thanking them for the offer, but the seller has declined. Sure they could do that. Many different ways to see and or respond to this scenario. It's not like we're buying lunch at McD's.. in most instances.. we're talking tens of thousand of dollars. Although not huge money to a company overall, pretty important to me. Basic job functions and common courtesy seems pretty straight forward to me, but that's just how I see it. I totally understand other reasoning, and can make sense depending on how you look at it, I just don't see why it's so hard to take 30 seconds to be respectful.

They are transaction brokers which means they do not represent either. They put the two parties together.

FL timeshare law allows a seller to direct a broker to not present offers if they don’t meet threshold.

So, they don’t represent the buyer other than to present an offer if no other directive has been given to them.

And, I do agree it would be nice for them to reach out letting you know it was received, But I personally can’t say I’d be that upset if they don’t.

I put offers in with a few and after 24 hours I either reach back out or move on. I just don’t worry that much about it.

To be fair, I haven’t had a lot of instances where it has happened, but other than my RIV $100/pt offers last March, most of my offers weren’t that far off asking

 

[disneylandtour]

The thing that's not being address here is that many of us are bargain hunters--maybe even something that might be described as extreme bargain hunters. This typically means looking for that rare contract where the sellers want out quickly and will agree to something below market value. This is at least a 1 in 10 proposition. I'd say closer to 1 in 20. There's going to be a lot of rejection. And also a few brokers (again, mainly at two resellers, where I suspect there are other problems) who don't want to deal with it. Just embrace it.

 

[tom1944]

I wonder if most offers receive a counter offer or a just no thank you?

I bid on 4 BLT contracts and received no counters just remarks that I was way off.

I then bid on an SSR contract that was listed as a hot deal. I offered less and the broker called me and said they would only accept full price. I decided to make the purchase because I wanted to book a vacation and the deal was reasonable.

 

[Sandisw]

I wonder if most offers receive a counter offer or a just no thank you?

I bid on 4 BLT contracts and received no counters just remarks that I was way off.

I then bid on an SSR contract that was listed as a hot deal. I offered less and the broker called me and said they would only accept full price. I decided to make the purchase because I wanted to book a vacation and the deal was reasonable.

I think many do get a counter if the original is not too far apart. What I have found is that the times I didn’t get them was when I offered $100 for a $145 contract.

I also didn’t counter when I received an offer more than $30 below because I figured we were too far apart and not worth my time.

 

[thelionqueen]

They are transaction brokers which means they do not represent either. They put the two parties together.

FL timeshare law allows a seller to direct a broker to not present offers if they don’t meet threshold.

So, they don’t represent the buyer other than to present an offer if no other directive has been given to them.

And, I do agree it would be nice for them to reach out letting you know it was received, But I personally can’t say I’d be that upset if they don’t.

I put offers in with a few and after 24 hours I either reach back out or move on. I just don’t worry that much about it.

To be fair, I haven’t had a lot of instances where it has happened, but other than my RIV $100/pt offers last March, most of my offers weren’t that far off asking

All good points. I think the simplest answer to all this is what you and others have mentioned and just have the sellers tell the broker their bottom line, and anything below that line, will not be accepted.. easy fix. However, the seller and broker must also understand that the buyer is not aware of this threshold, so to be courteous and decline the offer. It's really that simple, communicate.

From a seller/broker perspective, makes total sense.. this is my bottom line, no thanks to anything below this.. While also understanding that the prospective buyer is not privy to this information. Both parties could benefit if a broker can manage a fair price of both sides and negotiate a sale. Nothing happens when a buyer is ignored.

 

[thelionqueen]

I wonder if most offers receive a counter offer or a just no thank you?

I bid on 4 BLT contracts and received no counters just remarks that I was way off.

I then bid on an SSR contract that was listed as a hot deal. I offered less and the broker called me and said they would only accept full price. I decided to make the purchase because I wanted to book a vacation and the deal was reasonable.

Really excellent example here! So, you were told your offers were way off.. cool, no prob, thanks for letting me know. Then you bid on another, also a lower offer, and broker said nope, firm price.. cool.. and, low and behold.. you bought it!! The broker could've (wrongly) assumed you weren't a serious buyer because your offers were so low and a "waste of their time," or.. done their job and presented the offer and communicate with you which this one did. To assume those of us who are "Extreme Bargain Hunters" aren't also serious buyers is a mistake. Congrats on SSR!!!

 

[thelionqueen]

The thing that's not being address here is that many of us are bargain hunters--maybe even something that might be described as extreme bargain hunters. This typically means looking for that rare contract where the sellers want out quickly and will agree to something below market value. This is at least a 1 in 10 proposition. I'd say closer to 1 in 20. There's going to be a lot of rejection. And also a few brokers (again, mainly at two resellers, where I suspect there are other problems) who don't want to deal with it. Just embrace it.

Exactly!!! I totally agree with everything you wrote. And yes, the "Big 2" are the ones I had issue with, but don't any longer as I will not use them again as either a buyer or seller.

Maybe they're reading this and planning a celebratory parade that thelionqueen will no longer be submitting lowball offers... YAY!! Doesn't bother me one bit.. they can do whatever makes them happy as I take my business elsewhere Easy peasy.