Getting thrown off the plane because your fat!

[NHdisneylover]

I am worried..more so now as a result of the latest incident concerning Silent Bob (Whose real Name is Keven Smith i believe) Concerning Southwest Airlines..
I had NO idea about the "Person of Size" Rule..My son is 12 6'4 and 280 lbs (yep..he is a BIG BOY)..I called Southwest regarding him today and the lady I talked to told me not to worry..That he would be "Just fine"..I am having second thoughts about this airline..I REFUSE to have my son humiliated for who he is, a HUGE person. To all reading:I must say this..He is gigantic but gentle and kind..A GREAT Kid in a BIG Body. I have the money to buy another seat..no worries there...But I dont want my son's feelings hurt.
Although he is a big boy..he is still 12..any suggestions other than taking another carrier?

Thanks--now I do (vaguely) know who we are talking about

As far as your son goes--if the plane is not sold out you would get a refund on the additional seat purchase. Without seeing your son it is hard to know how much of his weight is where it could pose a problem with the policy. DH is 6'5" and weighs about 250. He is very big bined and much of that is in large thighs, ankles, shoulders, etc. He feels cramped in any caoched saet, but he fits between the arm rests entirely without spilling over at all (there is no fat to "spill over"--it is all hard bone so it would either fit or not) It sounds like Kevin (or silent Bob or whoever) fit in the seat hiself and would have been fine had he not booked as a customer of size originally (and often) in order to have more privacy.
I guess if I were you I would figure it was not worth the risk of embarrassing my son and on this one trip buy and added seat (and go in knowing that if your plans chaneg and you are flying standby you are locked in to neededing that extra seat space available on a flight). Cross your fingers that the flights are not full and you can have a refund and then look to see how well your DS fits so you will know what to do for sure on future flights.

 

[mitchfishguard]

So now that everyone has stated their thoughts on this, what should a person learn from this? Should I measure myself at home( and if I exceed 17 inches) and purchase another seat? I wonder what the width of a 5'6 - 120 pound woman/man is? Anyone care to measure themselves and post the answer? My own "seat width" is 47 inches and I can fit in a seat- buckled-arm rests down.

cant the airline ensure that big people sit either side of the middle so it evens it out. you wont need to measure. just make sure they all stand up at the same time so the plane wont fly in a circle

 

[seashoreCM]

I wonder what the width of a 5'6 - 120 pound woman/man is?

Alas, this is one of the questions where if you ask 20 (different) people (or took a tape measure and actually measured them) then you may get 20 noticeably different truthful answers.

cant the airline ensure that big people sit either side of the middle so it evens it out. you wont need to measure. just make sure they all stand up at the same time so the plane wont fly in a circle

"Larger" planes (carrying more than 60 passengers) have engines powerful enough and adjustable enough to overcome the effects of most weight imbalances due to "larger" passengers.

 

[goofy4tink]

I routinely fly SW, JB and Delta. Are the seats all that different in size?? Not that I've noticed. I'm not small by any means, more average size. In the fashion industry I'm even considered plus size (but that's another story, for another day). My dh is 6'4" and just over 200 lbs, I have an adult dd who is probably 40 lbs overweight, I could stand to loose 15 or so myself. My adult ds is about 6' and runs about 280ish. None of us, not one of us, has any problem fitting in any airline seats, comfortably. Okay, perhaps my ds is a bit more squished than the rest of us, but not to the point that others are impacted.

The 'average' American is a lot larger today than of 20 years ago. Perhaps, rather than moan and groan about the 'smallness' of airline seats, we should be focusing on our extra weight. Flying is not a 'right'....it is not a 'given' for everyone. If you don't fit, you have to adjust something. There is no way the airlines are going to start ripping out seats so that the ever increasing girth of Americans can fit more comfortably into the airline seats....and I do include myself in this catagory. Can you just imagine the addtl cost to the airline customer???? As soon as they start removing seats, someone is going to be expected to pick up that lost revenue. And I'll be darned if it's me.

I have flown solo, and had less than couteous people next to me. Were they 'large'??? No, they were average sized folks. But, they continually spread themselves out, into my 'personal' space..making it nearly impossible for me to use my armrest TV controls. Just a matter of common courtesy.
And that would be nice to see at all levels.....common courtesy. The issue is that there are going to be some passengers, that are not frequent fliers, that may not realize they are considered 'large' when buying tickets. So...what happens to them when they get to the airport??? They have purchased their ticket, just like everyone else but now stand the chance of being humiliated in front of the other passengers. Perhaps, just perhaps, the airlines should put in a different seating catagory for those larger than average....only two seats per row. They could do this for the last two rows on each plane. Those 4 seats would be left for the larger folks to use. Yes, they would cost more...perhaps 1/2 the cost of an addtl seat. Kind of like a first class seat but in the rear of the plane. Not sure how they would be sure the person booking one of those 4 seats was 'large enough' to warrent it, but that's a problem for tomorrow.

By the way...at 5'8" and about 155, my width is about 15"...used to be about 13", but age does creep up on us....just a wee bit of spread happening!!

 

[uva185]

Okay, 80% of the plane who is not comfortable should fly first class or buy a 2nd seat? I don't need the extra space, and I have only flown with one heavy person - the rest were basically normal sized too - once again, the seats are only big enough for SMALL people regardless of how many seats they put on the plane, etc. etc.

80% of the plane is not comfortable?? Where do you get that number? Surely you don't mean 80% of the plane is obese?

There have been times where I am stuck in a bad seat in coach and while it was not enjoyable my seatmates did not spill over into my seat and everything was fine. I got home 4 hours earlier than if I took a later flight with First Class availability.

For those who say they are so worried about embarrassment if they or their children get kicked off a plane... Wouldn't it be worth it to buy a second seat to ensure you or your child is not removed from the plane (and sparred the embarrassment).

It seems no one wants to take responsibility for themselves.

 

[seashoreCM]

80% of the plane is not comfortable?? Where do you get that number?
It seems no one wants to take responsibility for themselves.

I beg to differ profoundly. But if only 1% of the plane, namely just I, am uncomfortable I think I deserve assistance in taking responsibility if needed. Meanwhile I don't think I should have to buy another seat because someone else takes up a lot of space.

 

[seashoreCM]

But, they continually spread themselves out, into my 'personal' space..making it nearly impossible for me to use my armrest TV controls. Just a matter of common courtesy.

Another way-OT: Would it be fair to lump this into the category of inoperative IFE* and count on the flight crew to step in and, for example, ask if anyone would like to trade seats? As well as (slightly more but not completely back on topic) put a heads up into the minds of the airline crew regarding common courtesy.

... is 12 6'4 and 280 lbs ... I called Southwest regarding him today and the lady I talked to told me not to worry..That he would be "Just fine"... I am having second thoughts about this airline...

I would say the lady (I) talked to was treading on dangerous ground; she does not know for sure the passenger would fit the seat. Perhaps if reservationists were given different ways to express things, for example fitting in a 17 inch space from head to toe, that would make it easier for the prospective passenger to judge for himself and prevent a rude awakening (or nasty surprise) at the airport.

...But I dont want my son's feelings hurt...

Very often (it appears that Kevin Smith's specific case fell into this category too) it is an airline employee who puts egg on his face (or his foot in his mouth) and this leads to the airline's apologizing and compensating even when the passenger was not in full compliance with the rules.

But more likely people get their feelings hurt because other similar people have done the hurting of feelings, yes I know people get their feelings hurt because of being profiled. IMHO someone "in a BIG body" is very likely to be obnoxious.

Furthermore such profiling and hurting of feelings would be greatly reduced if "higher up", in this case, flight crew" would take the responsibility where the phrase "deal with it" might apply, and do so with respect to what people are doing as opposed to who those people are or what they look like.

* In Flight Entertainment

 

[Lewisc]

Okay, 80% of the plane who is not comfortable should fly first class or buy a 2nd seat? I don't need the extra space, and I have only flown with one heavy person - the rest were basically normal sized too - once again, the seats are only big enough for SMALL people regardless of how many seats they put on the plane, etc. etc.

Coach airline seats are similar in size to movie theatre seats. They're wider then a lot of broadway theatre seats. I'm sure at least 80% of all passengers would like a first class seat for a coach fare.

 

[Shelly F - Ohio]

Weight and balance.. A plane must go through a weight and balance before it can take off. It the plane is over weight they have to make adjustments. It for the safety of everyone.

We took a very short flight so short there was not a flight attendant. There were on 3 of us on the flight but before we could take off the pilot asked that one of us sit in from one in the middle and one in the back of the plane. To balance out the weight in the plane.

 

[mitchfishguard]

Alas, this is one of the questions where if you ask 20 (different) people (or took a tape measure and actually measured them) then you may get 20 noticeably different truthful answers.

"Larger" planes (carrying more than 60 passengers) have engines powerful enough and adjustable enough to overcome the effects of most weight imbalances due to "larger" passengers.

i was joking

 

[TrustedTraveler]

As a "person of size" who travels a lot, I love the Southwest Airlines policy and will always choose SWA when I have a choice.
It's only fair that I purchase a second seat, for my comfort as well as the other passengers. In return I get preferred boarding, and if the flight is not overbooked, I can get a refund on the extra seat!
Over the past few years I've purchased an extra seat 40 times and only had to pay for 4 of them. I do look for flights that are not apt to overbook.
Their policy is fair, generous and I don't believe anyone has the right to complain.

 

[ChaMakay1923]

My hubby doesnt have any fat on his sexy body but he is 5 10 and about 250lbs wideness and hardly fits in the seat. So are they going to ask him to buy 2 seats too. It just crazy maybe they should put weight/tall/wide limit out there... just like the luggage. and charge people up front instead of saying hey your on the plane and your too big get off lol

I have to agree with you on this note. Because what if you are on a very tight budget and don't have enough money to pay that extra cost at the time of being asked to leave the plane and buy another seat? That can be a HUGE burden on someone! A huge loss!!! I myself know, if it would happen to me, being on an EXTREMELY tight income... 125% below poverty level to be honest... (hence why I'm planning a year out for vaca), I'd be devastated and not have the money to cover the extra seat. I don't have credit cards like everyone else in the world who can just whip out a card and say.. "Charge it". I think, just like the luggage... post the measurements of a max person who can fit in the seats. Makes it a lot easier to measure yourself at home than to get there and be asked to leave plane and buy extra seat in front of the WHOLE flight of folks. How embarrassing!

 

[seadd67]

You are kinda contradicting yourself aren't you. You say she wasn't encroaching on anyone's seat and then that she was partially into the middle seat. If she couldn't fit in one seat and I don't just mean squeeze between the armrests and let everything hang over then she needed to buy 2 seats.
It is on the website. I for one am very glad SW enforces this and wish more airlines did. I also think they should be more picky because I have been by folks who just because they can lift and squeeze and get between the armrests think it is ok that they take up part of your seat above the arm rests. I wish there could be a partition that fit between the seats that defined your "own" space and then if you didn't fit into that area you needed 2 seats. As far as being humiliated I fail to believe the people who need 2 seats aren't aware of their size, it isn't a surprise that morning and the policy is on their website.

As far as being arbitrary what do you want them to do? could you see the outrage if they dared to ask people what they weighed or to get on a scale?

Ok you have a good point, so that would mean every one right? but SW does not do this to everyone they pick and choose. And what Is Intruding Into someones space? you on a airplane,with how many people confined Into how much space?. So have less seats so you have more space and then pay higher plane tickets does that solve your problem?,no. If a person has obviously has a weight Issue and can not fit In one seat and san not keep the majorty of there selfs In the confines of there seat then yes they should by a extra seat.But If Its just that we are just all In there close,maybe elbows touching then no,If you do not like to get close to anyone buy frist class or maybe dont fly?

 

[seadd67]

I am at 5'9 at 260# and have flowen SW for the past two years with my DS. I can bring down the arm rests no problem all I want to know Is that I am not being visual discrimnated. If I look Big/Fat compare to the SW Employee or maybe they dont like the looks of me that they cant bring up my size and ask me to leave even through I fit Into my seat and I am not makeing my seat mate un-comfortable. Thats all I ask. And If Its safety,we do not get to chose who actually flys the plane,maybe we should be able to ask for a diffrent piolt,and lets see If he drinks? shouldent that be a safty factor to?. I am just saying We can exclude anyone for anything If given the chance,lets have some common sense here and a little compassion. SW looks like there just worried about makeing money off the seat not the safety of the passengers,thats just there excuse.

 

[kaytieeldr]

SW looks like there just worried about makeing money off the seat not the safety of the passengers,thats just there excuse.

This makes NO sense. One person sitting in (and having paid for) two seats provides the airline with no more money than two persons each sitting in one seat - probably less, since the second seat can be purchased at the same low rate the Customer of Size paid for the first seat. In addition, with the only additional revenue opportunity on Southwest being alcohol sales - one person in two seats can only drink, and so spend, the amount that same person would spend in one seat. TWO people in those two seats can spend twice as much. So the "making more money" accusation makes ZERO sense.

 

[Lewisc]

... Thats all I ask. And If Its safety,we do not get to chose who actually flys the plane,maybe we should be able to ask for a diffrent piolt,and lets see If he drinks? shouldent that be a safty factor to?. I am just saying We can exclude anyone for anything If given the chance,lets have some common sense here and a little compassion. SW looks like there just worried about makeing money off the seat not the safety of the passengers,thats just there excuse.

I don't understand your point. There are FAA rules regarding pilots and drinking. There are airline rules regarding same. Safety issue.

SW (like most airlines) doesn't allow a passenger to take part of the space that belongs to the passenger in the next seat. Nothing to do with safety or making money. Just a matter of being fair. If SW was looking to make money they wouldn't be refunding money for the second seat if the flight isn't completely sold (the vast majority of the time).

 

[fla4fun]

What I don't understand is why anyone of size (and we have plenty of those in my friends and family circle) wouldn't want to buy the extra seat to be comfortable, for both personal space issues and physical comfort. There have been times where I've sat in a restaurant chair with arms that was a little too small, and had bruises at the end of the meal. Most meals don't take nearly as long as an airplane flight. I don't fly often, but when I do, I check out the sizes of the seats on websites like seatguru. If I see a coach seat of a comfortable size won't be available on the route I need to go (not all coach seats are the same size), then I look to see if I should buy two seats or upgrade to a larger seat in business or first.

Oh, and as to measuring what size seat is comfortable for you, what we do is find a chair with arms that fits comfortably and measure the width between the arms. That gives you a fairly good estimate of what you're aiming for. No two people of the same height and weight are going to be built the same, so one could be wider or narrower than the next when seated.

Personally, if I'd been the guy who started this whole mess by trying to get on an earlier flight as a standby, I wouldn't have taken the earlier flight if it meant giving up my second seat.

 

[Inkmahm]

What I don't understand is why anyone of size (and we have plenty of those in my friends and family circle) wouldn't want to buy the extra seat to be comfortable, for both personal space issues and physical comfort.

That's easy- cost. Not everyone can afford to buy two seats or upgrade to business or first class.

 

[snowbunny]

As a "person of size" who travels a lot, I love the Southwest Airlines policy and will always choose SWA when I have a choice.
It's only fair that I purchase a second seat, for my comfort as well as the other passengers. In return I get preferred boarding, and if the flight is not overbooked, I can get a refund on the extra seat!
Over the past few years I've purchased an extra seat 40 times and only had to pay for 4 of them. I do look for flights that are not apt to overbook.
Their policy is fair, generous and I don't believe anyone has the right to complain.

Thank you for posting your actual experience. Is anyone listening?

And now, back to our regularly scheduled rampant speculation and misinformation....

 

[Anjelica]

As a "person of size" who travels a lot, I love the Southwest Airlines policy and will always choose SWA when I have a choice.
It's only fair that I purchase a second seat, for my comfort as well as the other passengers. In return I get preferred boarding, and if the flight is not overbooked, I can get a refund on the extra seat!
Over the past few years I've purchased an extra seat 40 times and only had to pay for 4 of them. I do look for flights that are not apt to overbook.
Their policy is fair, generous and I don't believe anyone has the right to complain.

I actually had a question to those who bought a second seat as more of a curiosity thing. How do you "hold" the second seat so that no one tries to take it? With SW open seat policy I was curious how that works. Do you just tell people you bought two seats or is it a non-issue?