Getting help for ds14-small update on post 51 and 52

[ksjayhawks]

Take him for a complete medical exam.

Contact your county's mental health department and talk to someone there.

There are also other programs such as Family Focus that help families. Some school districts have help clinics. Talk with the counselors at his school as well as they have all sorts of resources that they can give you.

Your dh has to realize that his ds14 needs help. It is not right what he is doing to his siblings. You need to protect all of your children and that will mean getting outside help for ds14. Plezse do not wait--get help for him now.

 

[autumnpalm]

I would go to a counselor that does both family counseling as well as individual counseling. He can spend the first half of the appointment with the counselor on his own, then bring in mom/dad/sister.

Just wanted to send hugs.

 

[mom2cinderella]

and support from me too. I see a lot of my 12yo in what you've written.

 

[quasar4legs]

I would have a chat with your doctor and ask for a referral to a specialist. Hope things work out for your family, sometimes it can be tough raising our children.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

Whoa-hold on a second. Why can people throw out diagnosis of rad, bipolar, etc. I am not talking silence of the lambs psychopaths!!

I just suggested she look at the symptoms
Deceptive behavior
Lying
Conning
Little remorse
Poorself control

Why is my suggestion any less valid?

 

[Green Tea]

Had ADHD ever been mentioned? It sounds pretty classic to me. He may be trying extra hard to control his impulsiveness away from home, but once in a safe place (his home) he lets his focus relax and he becomes the annoying button pusher.

 

[heart4pooh]

My 12 yr old son has asperger's. His teachers love him!! He is well behaved and very smart. He answers questions that others don't know and asks interesting questions about whatever is being taught. But, he does not have conversations. He is socially unaware. The kids at school accept him (for now). The neighborhood kids no longer play with him. It breaks my heart, but he is ok with it. He doesn't have any younger siblings but gets along fine with his older brother who is 22.

My younger son has sensory issues. He also doesn't like things that happen suddenly or unexpectedly. He needs time with any transitions. He LOVES our three dogs! My son gets very agitated about the horseflies down at the public pool, too!

My son's social and sensory issues are normally not a problem for the classroom or the teacher. They are a problem for him, though.

PM me if you have any questions about asperger's. My son has done very well with therapy, but he will always have asperger's. It makes some things more difficult for him, but other ways he sees benefits to it also.

 

[Holly]

Whoa-hold on a second. Why can people throw out diagnosis of rad, bipolar, etc. I am not talking silence of the lambs psychopaths!!

I just suggested she look at the symptoms
Deceptive behavior
Lying
Conning
Little remorse
Poorself control

Why is my suggestion any less valid?

Which is actually fairly typical behavior from kids that age.

If every kid that lied and drove their younger siblings nuts without remorse was a psychopath or had RAD we'd all be in big trouble.

 

[indimom]

Uh oh, I'm raising psychopaths!!!

Honestly, I see this behavior as pretty normal. My only qualification is this - if you feel like it is causing problems in your family then you probably should find a counselor you and your son are comfortable with to help you work through it. I don't think there is anything "wrong" with your DS, he just might be a kid who needs some more help growing up. Maybe a counselor can help you find ways to be more proactive and less reactive to these issues which will help everyone in your home.
And, don't take this the wrong way, but I think I'd tell my 12yo girl to just work on ignoring his jibes, particularly the "dirty words." He is just pushing her for a reaction and she is "letting him win" every time she gives him one. This is an issue I work on daily with both of my own kids, they will just continue to "push" the others buttons constantly (annoying noises, taking things they know the other wants, fingernail jabs, "bumping" into each other with force). We are constantly working on "don't give him/her what he/she wants. Ignore it." At the same time, we are focused on "why do you feel like you need to do that to your brother/sister?"
Instead of taking things away, I've taken my mom's philosphy - "you must have too much time/energy on your hands, so you can wash these dishes/fold this laundry/pull these weeds." Not only do they hate it, but it keeps them out of each other's hair for a little while. All kids lie on a regular basis - particularly about the "little things," I wouldn't panic about that. And, be VERY vigilent, try to keep as close an eye as possible on the action, maybe you'll start to see a trend and will be able to identify what is causing these actions.
I wouldn't panic over the "diagnosis" people throw out on the web, if you are concerned, find a good counselor and let them do any diagnosing.

 

[Sorsha]

And, don't take this the wrong way, but I think I'd tell my 12yo girl to just work on ignoring his jibes, particularly the "dirty words." He is just pushing her for a reaction and she is "letting him win" every time she gives him one. This is an issue I work on daily with both of my own kids, they will just continue to "push" the others buttons constantly (annoying noises, taking things they know the other wants, fingernail jabs, "bumping" into each other with force). We are constantly working on "don't give him/her what he/she wants. Ignore it." At the same time, we are focused on "why do you feel like you need to do that to your brother/sister?"
Instead of taking things away, I've taken my mom's philosphy - "you must have too much time/energy on your hands, so you can wash these dishes/fold this laundry/pull these weeds." Not only do they hate it, but it keeps them out of each other's hair for a little while.

Yes, very much. My kids are younger, but they are VERY good at button-pushing. "Mommmm, she called me a (fill in here with name of your choosing)." My response always is, "Well, ARE you a (fill in here with name of your choosing)?" Child's response, "Ummm, no.." Me, "Well then, don't let it bother you. She's just trying to annoy you/make you feel bad, DON'T GIVE HER THAT POWER." Or possibly the situation might be "Mommmm, she's poking me." My response, "She just trying to annoy you, don't let it bother you. DON'T GIVE HER THAT POWER. Just walk away" Then to the child doing the poking, "I can see that you are bored, come here with me, the dishwasher needs to be emptied."

I have always been an advocate of Eleanor Roosevelt's philosophy "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent" and try very very hard on a daily basis to instill it in my children, as well as other variations on it. No one can make you feel (anything) without your consent. Your sister cannot make you feel annoyed without your consent - don't give her that power - walk away. Never give anyone power over you and your feelings.

 

[AristocatFan]

Uh oh, I'm raising psychopaths!!!

Honestly, I see this behavior as pretty normal. My only qualification is this - if you feel like it is causing problems in your family then you probably should find a counselor you and your son are comfortable with to help you work through it. I don't think there is anything "wrong" with your DS, he just might be a kid who needs some more help growing up. Maybe a counselor can help you find ways to be more proactive and less reactive to these issues which will help everyone in your home.
And, don't take this the wrong way, but I think I'd tell my 12yo girl to just work on ignoring his jibes, particularly the "dirty words." He is just pushing her for a reaction and she is "letting him win" every time she gives him one. This is an issue I work on daily with both of my own kids, they will just continue to "push" the others buttons constantly (annoying noises, taking things they know the other wants, fingernail jabs, "bumping" into each other with force). We are constantly working on "don't give him/her what he/she wants. Ignore it." At the same time, we are focused on "why do you feel like you need to do that to your brother/sister?"
Instead of taking things away, I've taken my mom's philosphy - "you must have too much time/energy on your hands, so you can wash these dishes/fold this laundry/pull these weeds." Not only do they hate it, but it keeps them out of each other's hair for a little while. All kids lie on a regular basis - particularly about the "little things," I wouldn't panic about that. And, be VERY vigilent, try to keep as close an eye as possible on the action, maybe you'll start to see a trend and will be able to identify what is causing these actions.
I wouldn't panic over the "diagnosis" people throw out on the web, if you are concerned, find a good counselor and let them do any diagnosing.

I totally agree! This so reminds me of my oldest DS. His 13-17yrs were very hard. Now he is a very responsible young man getting ready to go off to college. He also helps out a lot with his younger siblings.(as in, transportation, etc.) He acts out at home because that's where he is comfortable. He's testing the waters and your ability as a parent to stay consistent and to see if you really mean what you say. Every teen likes to push the limits. DS's most common response was always, "But I didn't hit him that hard." He would fail to see the problem with that statement. Everything was always his brothers fault. Everyone else "made" him do it. I'd routinely lecture him that no, his brain made him use his hand to hit. Then we would discuss what would have been the right way to handle the situation. He absolutely must have the last word. I could go on and on, he didn't understand the term "back talking" he'd say, "aren't two people conversing talking back?" The teen years aren't easy. There are many worse things your son could be doing. I also really do not feel there's any mental illness. (I work in special ed) But you'll get through this one day at a time.

 

[Tinkerbellie16]

I agree with other posters that you and your DH need to jointly agree on the course of action with your son. Here are some things that I might suggest -

Suggest to your DH that you would like for your son to see a counselor OUTSIDE of the school system. This way, the school system and the school in general will not have knowledge of it and can not let it 'leak' or anything. If this is between your son and the counselor and no one else, then as long as you don't say anything, no one else should know. I'm not saying this has to be some 'secret' but at least to start off with, this would help your husband to agree to a couple of sessions.

Pick a counselor with your husband. Perhaps he would prefer a male counselor or someone that is older, or someone that works in a different county. But let your husband have a choice in the matter.

Ask your husband what else upset him over the counseling in High School and what you both can do better for your son.

Let your DH know that doing NOTHING can be a lot more harmful than doing something.

Good luck - I really hope it works out for your family.

 

[Mermaid02]

Had ADHD ever been mentioned? It sounds pretty classic to me. He may be trying extra hard to control his impulsiveness away from home, but once in a safe place (his home) he lets his focus relax and he becomes the annoying button pusher.

I agree with this! My son had ADHD and Aspergers and a lot of the same behaviors as the OP mentioned. He does well out and about, but at home he is a different kid. The Child Psychologist said he works SO HARD to keep it together in public that at home he just lets loose. Home is "safe" and he knows he's loved there no matter what.

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP, first...

I will try to be simple and concise here....

First, do not seek 'counseling'...
While I am not going to play a 'DIS Psychologist' and throw out unwarranted possible diagnosis, what you have described sounds like it requires a full neurological/psychological evaluation in order for you to get any real answers. Please look into evaluation asap.

Second, while I wholeheartedly agree that with discipline, etc... parents should be on the same page. But, when a child is showing signs of this degree of problem, and needs help, THE CHILD COMES FIRST. I would not let my child suffer because of the issues that you have already identified and described in your husband. Your responsibility here is to your children.

Please consider going for a full evaluation, and then you will have the information you need to decide how to proceed from there.

 

[mom2cinderella]

Originally Posted by Green Tea
Had ADHD ever been mentioned? It sounds pretty classic to me. He may be trying extra hard to control his impulsiveness away from home, but once in a safe place (his home) he lets his focus relax and he becomes the annoying button pusher.

I agree with this! My son had ADHD and Aspergers and a lot of the same behaviors as the OP mentioned. He does well out and about, but at home he is a different kid. The Child Psychologist said he works SO HARD to keep it together in public that at home he just lets loose. Home is "safe" and he knows he's loved there no matter what.

Thanks for that input. We had ds evaluated last fall with the Connors scale. His home rating was "off the charts" but the ratings provided by the teachers fell within normal bounds.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I agree with this! My son had ADHD and Aspergers and a lot of the same behaviors as the OP mentioned. He does well out and about, but at home he is a different kid. The Child Psychologist said he works SO HARD to keep it together in public that at home he just lets loose. Home is "safe" and he knows he's loved there no matter what.

Yes, this is very true.....

Many times, only when things escalate, and the conditions and triggers become worse, will these behaviors become evident/obvious to the general public.

There are many possibilities where it is completely normal and expected for behaviors to be completely out of control in private, at home, with family members. But be carefully controlled for a few hours at a time in public.

 

[chasbos]

Could it be that your son is just very bored at home and needs to find an outside activity to keep him busy and away from home for a few hours a week?

I know if my kids are always home - it is a nightmare, they are bored and they pick on each other.

Get them out of the house to play soccer, go to the library program - without their siblings - seems to help.

Not sure where you live and what is available but I would look into activities outside the home with no other siblings.

 

[SpecialK]

Uh oh, I'm raising psychopaths!!!

Honestly, I see this behavior as pretty normal. My only qualification is this - if you feel like it is causing problems in your family then you probably should find a counselor you and your son are comfortable with to help you work through it. I don't think there is anything "wrong" with your DS, he just might be a kid who needs some more help growing up. Maybe a counselor can help you find ways to be more proactive and less reactive to these issues which will help everyone in your home.
And, don't take this the wrong way, but I think I'd tell my 12yo girl to just work on ignoring his jibes, particularly the "dirty words." He is just pushing her for a reaction and she is "letting him win" every time she gives him one. This is an issue I work on daily with both of my own kids, they will just continue to "push" the others buttons constantly (annoying noises, taking things they know the other wants, fingernail jabs, "bumping" into each other with force). We are constantly working on "don't give him/her what he/she wants. Ignore it." At the same time, we are focused on "why do you feel like you need to do that to your brother/sister?"
Instead of taking things away, I've taken my mom's philosphy - "you must have too much time/energy on your hands, so you can wash these dishes/fold this laundry/pull these weeds." Not only do they hate it, but it keeps them out of each other's hair for a little while. All kids lie on a regular basis - particularly about the "little things," I wouldn't panic about that. And, be VERY vigilent, try to keep as close an eye as possible on the action, maybe you'll start to see a trend and will be able to identify what is causing these actions.
I wouldn't panic over the "diagnosis" people throw out on the web, if you are concerned, find a good counselor and let them do any diagnosing.

This. Pretty typical, but if you're concerned talk to your doctor and see what he/she thinks.

 

[Tauwillow]

I recommend finding a neuropsychologist for an evaluation. Its a small specialty, but they are best suited to properly diagnose both mental health issues as well as neurological ones. Travel if you have to, its so very very worth it. (we paid OOP for an evaluation for our daughter)

So much of the time you can get caught on the misdiagnosis merry-go-round, and I think that can be just as damaging as the problems themselves. Skip the family doctors, the psychiatrists, neurologists and so on and head for the experts as your first stop.

Getting the evaluation changed our lives. Understanding the causation for my daughters behaviors depersonalized everything, and gave us the toolkit to respond in measured and healthy ways. All of our lives are better now, and all I had to do was understand how my daughters brain worked!

I strongly recommend reading the message boards at conductdisorders.com. (dont let the name frighten you off - they cover a wide range of conditions) Its a fabulous support board for parents of challenging kids. I have learned so much from these strong moms and dads, and when Im feeling at my most ill equipped, they have helped me get from one day to the next.

Good luck with finding a better path for your family and your son. You *do* have options, and things can get better!

 

[Wishing on a star]

So much of the time you can get caught on the misdiagnosis merry-go-round, and I think that can be just as damaging as the problems themselves. Skip the family doctors....

I so agree with this.

You have other children... so I think that you are recognizing that something is 'off' here.

Skip the family doctors, counselors, etc...
Real answers will come with a thorough neuro-psych evaluation.

( I can tell you that no family Dr. or teacher or counselor could ever have correctly identified or understood my son's true Dx. )

If you don't go straight to the top, you might get a bunch of unqualified personal opinions... anything from ADHD, Asbergers, OCD, ODD, etc.. etc... etc... (including the accusation of bad parenting) Just like you are seeing here on the DIS.

You will know best how to proceed, to do your best to help your son, and also your other children as well, if you have some real, unbiased, scientific answers.