Getting Fired advice - update page4

[CdnCarrie]

I'm confused. Maybe it's regional but here

firing = terminated for just cause - theft, poor job performance, etc

laid off = lack of work, business closing, restructuring, jobs eliminated, etc

What did your husband do to get fired?

 

[southlakejr]

Usually can't get unemployment if fired.

This is actually not the case. (at least not in CA) Generally, you need to have been fired for something fairly egregious in order to have your unemployment denied. Always file, and always appeal if the decision does not come down in your favor.

Last summer, we had to go to an unemployment hearing for an employee. He had SEVEN write ups in the span of six months for different issues. He was ultimately terminated for a giant safety offense. Guess who won? They determined that he did not deliberately attempt to cause harm to the company, and so he was eligible to receive unemployment. (At the hearing, the guy was delusional, angry, and threatening. We were actually relieved when we got the result so that we didn't have to worry about him showing up at our office, so it did work out)

 

[drinkme]

Usually can't get unemployment if fired.

Not true.

Tell dh to get his resume out there, make sure he has his LinkedIn account updated. When dh was out of work last year he saw all of the CEOs that he interviewed with who looked at his LinkedIn account.

Good luck. Take the severance & get out of there. Tell him to spend 8 hours a day looking for work.

 

[Disney Doll]

I would agree that the time to start looking for a job his now, while he still has a network of contacts. As a matter of fact, tell him
To get all the contact info for his network written down now. Also tell him to get anything off his computer that is personal or might be of assistance to him in a job search, such as policies he's written, money he's saved etc.

 

[manning]

Op here, it is an employee at will state. We weren't really considering suing, but we're worried about references. It would not be a layoff.

I wouldn't worry too much about the threat. It is possible, but if they were smart they wouldn't. It would expose them to a law suit. That is the reason just about all companies go only as far as verifying you worked there. If they stated you were fired for cause they very well will have to prove it. Or face the consequences.

If your husband is on strong grounds and they continue to threaten then he should counter with an agreement to leave on the condition they give a fair severance in return of him not suing. That is usually a standard agreement for severance.

 

[DWGal210]

If I were him, I'd dust off and update the resume and start looking for a new job, like yesterday, before it happens.its easier to find a job when you have one. He should plan to jump ship ASAP. Don't wait to get fired.

Yes, absolutely! If he has strong indications that he could be next to be let go, he should get his ducks in a row and be able to hit the ground running towards his next job.

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

Thanks for the advice everyone. His resume is up to date, he was looking for a job after the last round of firings, but then things seemed to get better. Now everyone is walking on eggshells again. It would almost be a blessing. I was mostly worried about the reference, but from what you all are telling me, they can't slam him or they risk getting sued.

 

[Arielle22]

HR Manager here. A company is free to tell a potential new employer why the employee was fired. Even if the reason is not correct, if the company believes it then it can be said.

For instance, Jane was a gossip so we fired her. No concrete proof is needed, just the belief by the company and that was why the term took place.

There are no laws dealing directly with references. If any court case took place, it would be under defamation of character or some similar law. These cases don't go very far because usually the case cannot be proven. (How do you prove the former employer didn't believe what was said?)

If your DH is over 40, the law requires he be given 21 days to consider the severance. If he tries to push for more severance or get a lawyer involved, the company can withdraw the severance offer. The company could also negotiate if it chooses.

Finally, if an employee chooses to sue the company for their treatment of the employee, it would be for something that violates the law. First you would have to file a state or federal complaint (federal level is EEOC) and the complaint would take months to work its way through the system. At the end, you may or may not be given a right to sue letter. The letter allows you to get a lawyer and file a lawsuit. You only have a short time (around 30 days) to get the lawyer and file the lawsuit.

OP, what does your DH think he would be fired for? Firing suggests he did something wrong.

To the poster questioning layoff versus a firing: layoffs actually mean the employee is coming back to work but that the company doesn't need them for a short amount of time (think manufacturing slow times).

What people call layoffs now is usually a permanent reduction in force (what used to be called downsizing).

 

[TheIncredibles!]

Thanks for the advice everyone. His resume is up to date, he was looking for a job after the last round of firings, but then things seemed to get better. Now everyone is walking on eggshells again. It would almost be a blessing. I was mostly worried about the reference, but from what you all are telling me, they can't slam him or they risk getting sued.

They can "slam him" if it's the absolute truth. Most companies will not go that route though and will get their message across - if they want to - with strict truthful details that speak volumes. If your husband truly hasn't done anything wrong then he most likely will have nothing to worry about. Good luck!

 

[Procrastinate]

My husband works for a family owned company. His boss is a jerk that has been firing the people that he doesn't like. All of whom have gotten very good reviews until this guy was hired. Some of them are probably in protected groups, like the most recent firing - a deaf woman who was fired because she has trouble communicating. (yes, she has a lawyer who has documented the company's ADA violations.) Other people that the jerk likes are golden, even if they screw up. So it is not just big, bad, corporations. The same problems occur in smaller companies too. And it is not just people who have poor performance or violations that deserve to be fired. It can be good employees who the boss doesn't like.

Hubby is the next target. He loved the company and the job until jerk was hired. He is now desperately trying to get out before he is fired.

 

[JanaDee]

In regards to references, I'd be surprised if they say anything at all.

If I am asked for a reference I can only give dates of employment. I am not allowed to say anything, because if I influence the hiring decision negatively (and it can be proven) it can come back on the company I work for.


Good Luck!

All DH can say is confirm their dates of employment and whether they are eligible for re-hire by the company. Whether that is company policy or law, I don't know.

He needs to start looking for a new job ASAP. Even if he doesn't get fired, who wants that threat hanging over their head every single day?

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Originally Posted by disney1990
Usually can't get unemployment if fired.

Wrong. Most of the time, the person can collect unemployment if fired if he or she meets the conditions required by the state ie, they have enough days and hours on the job to be eligible and they're actively seeking work, etc. For a person that meets the conditions not to be eligible for unemployment, the company has to prove it was a firing for just cause as defined by the state.

HR Manager here. A company is free to tell a potential new employer why the employee was fired. Even if the reason is not correct, if the company believes it then it can be said.
For instance, Jane was a gossip so we fired her. No concrete proof is needed, just the belief by the company and that was why the term took place.

No company in their right mind is going to cook up a flimsy reason for termination that isn't true and well documented on several occasions, spout that flimsy reason all over town, and then in court try to defend themselves with nothing other than, "Uh well uh we believed it to be true" when hit with an expensive lawsuit for defamation.

In regards to references, I'd be surprised if they say anything at all.
If I am asked for a reference I can only give dates of employment. I am not allowed to say anything, because if I influence the hiring decision negatively (and it can be proven) it can come back on the company I work for.

Ding Ding Ding.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

Thanks for the advice everyone. His resume is up to date, he was looking for a job after the last round of firings, but then things seemed to get better. Now everyone is walking on eggshells again. It would almost be a blessing. I was mostly worried about the reference, but from what you all are telling me, they can't slam him or they risk getting sued.

Not necessarily true. Many employers do not give extensive references because they are scared of being sued.

As long as the reference gives factual information - such as yes he was fired, or he was absent 20 times in 60 days, or that he is ineligible for rehire, it is ok.

So if your husband did anything that is against company policy or bad, he could be given a bad reference.

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

HR Manager here. A company is free to tell a potential new employer why the employee was fired. Even if the reason is not correct, if the company believes it then it can be said. For instance, Jane was a gossip so we fired her. No concrete proof is needed, just the belief by the company and that was why the term took place. There are no laws dealing directly with references. If any court case took place, it would be under defamation of character or some similar law. These cases don't go very far because usually the case cannot be proven. (How do you prove the former employer didn't believe what was said?) If your DH is over 40, the law requires he be given 21 days to consider the severance. If he tries to push for more severance or get a lawyer involved, the company can withdraw the severance offer. The company could also negotiate if it chooses. Finally, if an employee chooses to sue the company for their treatment of the employee, it would be for something that violates the law. First you would have to file a state or federal complaint (federal level is EEOC) and the complaint would take months to work its way through the system. At the end, you may or may not be given a right to sue letter. The letter allows you to get a lawyer and file a lawsuit. You only have a short time (around 30 days) to get the lawyer and file the lawsuit. OP, what does your DH think he would be fired for? Firing suggests he did something wrong. To the poster questioning layoff versus a firing: layoffs actually mean the employee is coming back to work but that the company doesn't need them for a short amount of time (think manufacturing slow times). What people call layoffs now is usually a permanent reduction in force (what used to be called downsizing).

What happened to his co-workers who were fired was their site didn't make their numbers. The VP asks the site manager who is at fault and fingers are pointed at anyone besides the manager and his cronies. I don't think we would sue and he might just be paranoid, but it's pretty stressful around here right now.

 

[SC Minnie]

Wrong. Most of the time, the person can collect unemployment if fired if he or she meets the conditions required by the state ie, they have enough days and hours on the job to be eligible and they're actively seeking work, etc. For a person that meets the conditions not to be eligible for unemployment, the company has to prove it was a firing for just cause as defined by the state.


No company in their right mind is going to cook up a flimsy reason for termination that isn't true and well documented on several occasions, spout that flimsy reason all over town, and then in court try to defend themselves with nothing other than, "Uh well uh we believed it to be true" when hit with an expensive lawsuit for defamation.



Ding Ding Ding.

We're going though this right now with DH. He was let go from his job in March with no reason given- just you are no longer needed here. He had been there for 6 years with no negative review. Even had a review in Dec and got 6% raise. This was a private company with the SonIL starting to take over and run things (and not very well). DH is looking for a job and applied for UE but the company has disputed it. Even though they have no grounds he has to wait for everything to go through the process before he can get his UE. DH is afraid they will bad mouth him when a potential employer calls to verify past employment or for a reference. This is the same company whose owner and the SIL have asked multiple interviewees questions not allowed in the interview process.

OP- I would suggest your DH start getting his resume out now. Also stop any spending that is not necessary, you may need that money if he is let go.

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

We're going though this right now with DH. He was let go from his job in March with no reason given- just you are no longer needed here. He had been there for 6 years with no negative review. Even had a review in Dec and got 6% raise. This was a private company with the SonIL starting to take over and run things (and not very well). DH is looking for a job and applied for UE but the company has disputed it. Even though they have no grounds he has to wait for everything to go through the process before he can get his UE. DH is afraid they will bad mouth him when a potential employer calls to verify past employment or for a reference. This is the same company whose owner and the SIL have asked multiple interviewees questions not allowed in the interview process. OP- I would suggest your DH start getting his resume out now. Also stop any spending that is not necessary, you may need that money if he is let go.

I'm sorry to hear that, it all seems very unfair. He is updating linked in and we are starting to look at jobs again. I hope your husband finds a job soon.

 

[Arielle22]

No company in their right mind is going to cook up a flimsy reason for termination that isn't true and well documented on several occasions, spout that flimsy reason all over town, and then in court try to defend themselves with nothing other than, "Uh well uh we believed it to be true" when hit with an expensive lawsuit for defamation.

Ding Ding Ding.

Most lawyers won't take a lawsuit for poor reference unless they are paid up front. The former employee would have to prove that the bad reference is the reason they didn't get a job (causing financial harm). A company that rejects a candidate doesn't want to get involved in that kind of lawsuit.

I don't think most companies spout a flimsy reason all over town. But what a company thinks is a solid reason for a term and what the employee thinks really happened is usually different.

I have fired people for suspicion of theft. We didn't have anything concrete to call in the police on but circumstances led us to believe it was a certain employee. We could legally tell a potential employer that the employee was fired for suspicion of theft.

 

[shortbun]

OP, from what you've said, I would be looking for another job right away and quit before I could get fired.

 

[timmac]

I would first echo a lot of what has been said here, there is a limit to what the company can or will say regarding a reference.

Now, as for the severance stuff, it sounds like it's partly a scare-tactic on the part of the company, and maybe even on shaky legal ground (IANAL). However, if it should come to that, my personal inclination would be to simply take what is offered, and move on. I'm glad OP has already stated no interest in suing, because realistically, such a lawsuit is likely to be years before final resolution, with very real risk of having nothing to show for it anyway. The real priority will be finding new employment anyway.

For me, I'd decide on the level of risk with the current job (sounds pretty high, or at least uncomfortable), and either wait and see what happens, or start looking now. Don't stress too much over the firing/layoff/severance stuff, since it's largely out of your control... worry about what you can control, looking for a new job.

 

[Art 1]

My brother hires and fires for a large world wide company. He is the one the home company sends about the world to fire very high ranking executives. How it works for him and how it's done is this. He is sent to whatever city. Shows up to the office. Gets another high ranking official, tells him what is going on, his official is to witness but is told not to talk, at all, to say nothing. The both go in to meet the executive, he is given the news. The witness is told to leave the office. My brother has his severance check in hand. To get the check they are to sign papers stating that they will not sue the company. If they won't sign they don't receive the severance. They collect their belongings and are escorted out by by security. Every one has signed off. That's how it's done at his place.