Getting Fired advice - update page4

[chiefmickeymouse]

DH has a job with a very large corporation that has fired 7 of the 9 people who do his job within the last year. He feels he might be next and I'm looking for advice for dealing with the HR rep. if it happens.

One of his friends who was fired told him that he was told he would only get one month's severance and if he disputed that any business that sought a reference for him would be "told exactly why he was fired". He signed and took the money and ran. DH doesn't feel he has done anything wrong, but apparently that hasn't mattered in the past, so he feels his head is on the chopping block.

He's never been fired before, so my question is: Is there a smart way to go about this? Do you sign whatever they put in front of you to get severance? Should he seek representation?

 

[JillyBean1899]

DH has a job with a very large corporation that has fired 7 of the 9 people who do his job within the last year. He feels he might be next and I'm looking for advice for dealing with the HR rep. if it happens.

One of his friends who was fired told him that he was told he would only get one month's severance and if he disputed that any business that sought a reference for him would be "told exactly why he was fired". He signed and took the money and ran. DH doesn't feel he has done anything wrong, but apparently that hasn't mattered in the past, so he feels his head is on the chopping block.

He's never been fired before, so my question is: Is there a smart way to go about this? Do you sign whatever they put in front of you to get severance? Should he seek representation?

It depends on the state laws. If you live in a "right to work" state, you can be fired for any reason that isn't a federally protected status (race, age, religion, etc.). If your boss doesn't like you, you can be fired, and you can't do a dang thing about it.

 

[ccgirl]

DH has a job with a very large corporation that has fired 7 of the 9 people who do his job within the last year. He feels he might be next and I'm looking for advice for dealing with the HR rep. if it happens.

One of his friends who was fired told him that he was told he would only get one month's severance and if he disputed that any business that sought a reference for him would be "told exactly why he was fired". He signed and took the money and ran. DH doesn't feel he has done anything wrong, but apparently that hasn't mattered in the past, so he feels his head is on the chopping block.

He's never been fired before, so my question is: Is there a smart way to go about this? Do you sign whatever they put in front of you to get severance? Should he seek representation?

Is it an employee at will state? If so, they can fire him whenever. Welcome to large corporations. I'll never work for one again. They don't always give severance so, personally, I would take severance and find a job where he would be more appreciated and wasn't walking on egg shells. Good luck.

 

[Robinrs]

DH has a job with a very large corporation that has fired 7 of the 9 people who do his job within the last year. He feels he might be next and I'm looking for advice for dealing with the HR rep. if it happens.

One of his friends who was fired told him that he was told he would only get one month's severance and if he disputed that any business that sought a reference for him would be "told exactly why he was fired". He signed and took the money and ran. DH doesn't feel he has done anything wrong, but apparently that hasn't mattered in the past, so he feels his head is on the chopping block.

He's never been fired before, so my question is: Is there a smart way to go about this? Do you sign whatever they put in front of you to get severance? Should he seek representation?

My company has had SEVERAL seasons of layoffs, I fell subject to it in 2002. Several people just took the money and ran while some stood stern and threatened to sue. Georgia is a right to work state so I don't know how far they got, this company has more lawyers than workers!

I looked FORWARD to my severance, I got a pretty nice one because I had been there 14 years. The last lay off back in 2011 they only gave the workers 2 months severance. Some people are STILL unemployed to this day.

They will give you a chance to read the agreement. Mine was a book, looked like the BIBLE! I took my time and read as much as I could, signed the paperwork and danced away!! I was actually GLAD to leave.

I am BACK with the same company because they bought my old company out. I feel like I woke up and was in bed with an abusive ex husband!

 

[Geoff_M]

It depends on the state laws. If you live in a "right to work" state, you can be fired for any reason that isn't a federally protected status (race, age, religion, etc.).

"Right To Work" doesn't enter into the equation. "RTW" is merely an exclusion in the Taft-Hartley Act that allows the workers of a given state to not be compelled to pay dues, or be required to pay a representation fee, to a union as a term of employment. It doesn't making firing an employee easier or harder.

What I think you are referring to is "At Will" employment. When someone enters into an employment agreement with an employer, if they acknowledge that their work arrangement is "At Will", then legally the employer is not required to "show cause" before terminating the employee. Non-union private employment is overwhelmingly "At Will" today.

"At Will" and "RTW" are not mutually exclusive. I can assure you that in my first "real" job after college, in Michigan, I was an "At Will" employee from Day 1 in a (then) very non-"RTW" state.

It's not real good advice, but when I hear about this sort of situation pending, all I can think of is Kevin Spacey's firing scene in American Beauty.

 

[southlakejr]

I'm in CA, which is one of the most employee friendly states in the country. A severance is offered for one reason- it basically buys your agreement not to sue. Most states are a form of "at will" these days, but that does not mean you cannot sure over a termination. However, to have any success with that, you will need to argue that the termination was based off of something illegal, like discrimination or retaliation. Do you feel that this prospective termination is the result of an otherwise illegal activity? Do you feel that your husband was discriminated against? Was he a whistleblower who is now being retaliated against? It sounds as if the company is crappy, but not necessarily shady.

In this instance, I would take the severance and sign the agreement. I would ask for the opportunity to review the statement over 24 hours, and hope they would allow it. Otherwise, read everything very carefully. Very, very carefully.

However, if they threaten to give a bad reference, that is actually grounds for a lawsuit. When I receive reference calls for former employees, I am not allowed to really give much information at all, without a signed authorization from the employee. Dates of employment, and I can confirm salary but not disclose it. I cannot/will not even disclose whether an employee's termination was voluntary or involuntary. Or if they are eligible for rehire. All of these things can land my butt court if an employee sues.

I'm sorry that things have gone poorly for your husband, but it sounds as if he is better off finding work elsewhere. In some ways though, he is lucky. Severance is rarely offered in the case of a firing, it is usually reserved for employees who are laid off.

 

[disney1990]

Fired or Laid Off - BIG Difference.

People usually do not get severance if they are fired. When I was laid off, had to sign paperwork not to seek legal council in order to get the severance.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Fired or Laid Off - BIG Difference.

People usually do not get severance if they are fired. When I was laid off, had to sign paperwork not to seek legal council in order to get the severance.

Mine was somewhere in between. My job transferred out of state and I refused to go with it. Did get 6 weeks severence. That was for a "big corp". I can assure you, that's 6 weeks more than I'd receive if the same happened today at my "mom & pop" employer. I often miss the "big corp".

 

[MSUmom]

My husband was part of the last big sweep at one of the big "3" in 2009. Recruited there after college and worked over 28 1/2 years. He missed his 30 years by 13 months. Gave him a 9 month severance and told him he couldn't collect unemployment till the 9 months were over. We had 2 company care leases, had to turn them both in. If he wanted to take the severance, he had to sign a paper saying he couldn't sue. We contacted a lawyer and although it wasn't moral it wasn't illegal.

Good luck. We did survive. He found a job after 10 months but my children had to take free lunch (even with me working 2 jobs). It put life in a different perspective for us.

 

[Skywise]

1>If it's politically "ok" (His boss is approachable) he should go to his superiors and ask if his work is acceptable and if he can improve at all dropping a few hints that he's aware almost everybody before him got sacked. It may be just gossip and his boss is happy with him.

2> If he doesn't get good feedback from that or he doesn't feel the boss is being up front with him then start looking for a new job NOW. He may have days, he may have weeks/months left but better to start the footwork now to keep the cash flow going.
2> Accepting the severance from them is a cover for them to prevent you from suing them for being wrongly fired (especially if you're in state that doesn't allow firing except for just causes.) There's also some unemployment benefits that come into play as well depending on how the termination was worked out (EG you can't claim unemployment if YOU resigned). Simply, it's easiest to just take the offer they give you. He might be able to negotiate a few other severance benefits (extended medical coverage, references, etc) but get them all in writing ahead of time.

Good luck!

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

Op here, it is an employee at will state. We weren't really considering suing, but we're worried about references. It would not be a layoff.

 

[diznygirl]

Op here, it is an employee at will state. We weren't really considering suing, but we're worried about references. It would not be a layoff.

Stating they will give a bad reference if he doesn't take the package could in itself be grounds for a lawsuit. You should check the rules in your state. And he could consider countering for two months and he won't tell anyone.

I'm in CA, which is one of the most employee friendly states in the country. A severance is offered for one reason- it basically buys your agreement not to sue. Most states are a form of "at will" these days, but that does not mean you cannot sure over a termination. However, to have any success with that, you will need to argue that the termination was based off of something illegal, like discrimination or retaliation. Do you feel that this prospective termination is the result of an otherwise illegal activity? Do you feel that your husband was discriminated against? Was he a whistleblower who is now being retaliated against? It sounds as if the company is crappy, but not necessarily shady.

In this instance, I would take the severance and sign the agreement. I would ask for the opportunity to review the statement over 24 hours, and hope they would allow it. Otherwise, read everything very carefully. Very, very carefully.

However, if they threaten to give a bad reference, that is actually grounds for a lawsuit. When I receive reference calls for former employees, I am not allowed to really give much information at all, without a signed authorization from the employee. Dates of employment, and I can confirm salary but not disclose it. I cannot/will not even disclose whether an employee's termination was voluntary or involuntary. Or if they are eligible for rehire. All of these things can land my butt court if an employee sues.

I'm sorry that things have gone poorly for your husband, but it sounds as if he is better off finding work elsewhere. In some ways though, he is lucky. Severance is rarely offered in the case of a firing, it is usually reserved for employees who are laid off.

 

[JillyBean1899]

"Right To Work" doesn't enter into the equation. "RTW" is merely an exclusion in the Taft-Hartley Act that allows the workers of a given state to not be compelled to pay dues, or be required to pay a representation fee, to a union as a term of employment. It doesn't making firing an employee easier or harder.

What I think you are referring to is "At Will" employment. When someone enters into an employment agreement with an employer, if they acknowledge that their work arrangement is "At Will", then legally the employer is not required to "show cause" before terminating the employee. Non-union private employment is overwhelmingly "At Will" today.

"At Will" and "RTW" are not mutually exclusive. I can assure you that in my first "real" job after college, in Michigan, I was an "At Will" employee from Day 1 in a (then) very non-"RTW" state.

It's not real good advice, but when I hear about this sort of situation pending, all I can think of is Kevin Spacey's firing scene in American Beauty.

You're right. This is what happens when I try to post while in the middle of doing reading journal entries and an essay on Hemingway. Brain goes

At least I had the info right, even though the name was wrong lol. Like I always say, if I say to go left and point right, follow the point.

 

[SMD]

My advice is don't sign anything until you've read it and ask for written notice of termination, then apply for unemployment immediately. Before it happens, I'd exchange phone numbers or emails with anyone he might want to use as a reference, without stating the reason is he expects to be terminated.

Once when I was laid off, a VP who I'd seen exactly twice and a woman from corporate I'd never met told me I was smart and qualified and would bounce back quickly. Then the woman slid a 20 page agreement in front of me, flipped to the last page and said sign it. Meanwhile VP is checking his watch and tapping his fingers. I said I'd like to take the agreement home and read it before signing (I was previously asked to sign a non-compete and non-poaching agreement at another job and didn't want to unknowingly sign another non-compete). So VP just blurts out, "You were a problem employee!" And the woman smiles and hands me an SASE. Needless to say, I used my former direct supervisor as a reference, with his permission to give out his cell number.

 

[Geoff_M]

You're right. This is what happens when I try to post while in the middle of doing reading journal entries and an essay on Hemingway. Brain goes

No problem. The only reason I made the post is because you're the 2nd DIS'er in the last month or so that's made the assertion that it's easier to fire people in "RTW" states. I have no doubt that belief exists in some circles.

At least I had the info right, even though the name was wrong lol. Like I always say, if I say to go left and point right, follow the point.

I know the feeling!

 

[dakcp2001]

If I were him, I'd dust off and update the resume and start looking for a new job, like yesterday, before it happens.its easier to find a job when you have one. He should plan to jump ship ASAP. Don't wait to get fired.

 

[disney1990]

My advice is don't sign anything until you've read it and ask for written notice of termination, then apply for unemployment immediately. Before it happens, I'd exchange phone numbers or emails with anyone he might want to use as a reference, without stating the reason is he expects to be terminated.

Once when I was laid off, a VP who I'd seen exactly twice and a woman from corporate I'd never met told me I was smart and qualified and would bounce back quickly. Then the woman slid a 20 page agreement in front of me, flipped to the last page and said sign it. Meanwhile VP is checking his watch and tapping his fingers. I said I'd like to take the agreement home and read it before signing (I was previously asked to sign a non-compete and non-poaching agreement at another job and didn't want to unknowingly sign another non-compete). So VP just blurts out, "You were a problem employee!" And the woman smiles and hands me an SASE. Needless to say, I used my former direct supervisor as a reference, with his permission to give out his cell number.

Usually can't get unemployment if fired.

 

[JVL1018]

Deleted because I didn't read further where you said it would be considered a firing, not a lay off.
I've never heard of someone who was fired and got severance.
I agree with the PP who said start looking now so he can avoid the whole mess.

 

[SMD]

Usually can't get unemployment if fired.

First, that's not true. The state determines who is eligible for unemployment, it is not determined solely by the manner of termination. Second, what's the worst that can happen if he applies, his claim gets denied?

 

[LeslieLou]

In regards to references, I'd be surprised if they say anything at all.

If I am asked for a reference I can only give dates of employment. I am not allowed to say anything, because if I influence the hiring decision negatively (and it can be proven) it can come back on the company I work for.


Good Luck!