Gator grabs 2 year old at Grand Floridian?

[ELSA711]

Still don't see an action plan on how to help the family, all talk.

edite to add: don't know why the Dis is being so weird but it's not letting me quote, was talking @dmychuds

There is really nothing anyone can do to help this family. Not Disney dishing out a ton of money or even taking full 100% blame for this. Short of someone finding their baby and bringing him back alive, no one can do anything to take their pain away, except for a higher power. That's not me, so I'll leave that to HIM, which is what my thoughts and prayers are for.

 

[rteetz]

http://www.wdwmagic.com/resorts/wal...osed-and-suspension-of-watercraft-service.htm

Beaches closed and water craft services suspended.

Officials to give update at noon.

 

[mshanson3121]

I completely agree with both of you, if you followed the responses between myself and dmychuds, you would see that. The user was condemning us for discussing this tragedy on a discussion board.

My apologies. For whatever reason when I quoted your quote, the part about dmychuds wasn't visible, so it seemed as though it was being directed to everyone.

 

[Tigger's ally]

Typical responses in here. No mention of how we could help the family get through this time and how we could show our support to them. Rather spouting empty words about thoughts and prayers while we discuss who should be blamed, who will be sued, and of course what should be killed to make us feel safer. Not be safer, just feel safer.

If you think thoughts and prayers are "empty words" then that is simply your stance.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Unless you're living in a hut and surviving off of the land and contributing to the circle of life I'm finding your stance a bit ridiculous. No one is calling for extermination of the species, they are calling for the removal of a proven threat to human life in a contained area. Once a gator kills a human I think it's safe to assume it will think nothing of doing it again.

The Walt Disney world resort is not CONTAINED!!!

They agreed to land and wildlife preservation as part of their deal for tax concessions and privileges.

If your going to make an argument...Check the details.

They have agreements with Florida and the south Florida water management district.

It came up with MGM just months ago...they had to purchase land south of 192 to add to their "bank"
Of preserved land so they could build on other areas.

Ecology has always been a part of WDW. It's one of those things that many of us love about the place and why we continue to let the dig in our pockets.

That characteristic is under assault a little today.

 

[mcjaco]

I'm sure Disney will do whatever they can to keep this out of court and will settle for a generous amount of money but none of it matters because no matter what the family lost their little boy in a horrific way.

Again. Florida - Pure Negligence State. Any settlement will be determined by a percentage of negligence on both the Plaintiff (family) and Disney. In front of a jury in Florida.....

Will Disney likely do the right thing and settle out of court? Yes. But they will also defend themselves and provide all of the previously mentioned legal defenses in a case such as this greatly diminishing their negligence.

Signage will likely change. CM's will likely get much thorough training on situations such as this from here on out.


I had a case where I had to put a price of an 11 year old's life. It was the worst case I ever defended. No life can have a price attached to it, and then to subtract an amount for negligence, was even worse.

With two four year olds myself, I cannot imagine the pain this family mush be going through, but I also realize that many of the unrealistic and off the handle responses here are ridiculous.

 

[TigerlilyAJ]

Really? All you people who say signs won't help think that even without signs, people won't be changing their behavior now that they've seen a child be snatched away right by the shore? As a parent, I think that is ridiculous. I'm not going to let my kids within 10 feet of any water's edge now!
I can think of lots of reasons that Disney would put up a "No Swimming" sign, none of them involving predators. I can see why people like me who are not from Florida would think that wading with my shoes off was OK and is not "swimming." If there are predators in the water, the safest thing to do is spell it out for people, if only for a CYA rationale.
And please stop thinking anyone outside Gator Country knows *anything* about them. When I first heard the story, I thought it was weird that it happened at night. Are alligators nocturnal? I've never heard that. But now I'm reading that the time was a prime feeding time.

 

[mshanson3121]

Was it wise for a small child to be playing at the edge of the water, at night, in a season when alligators are known to be aggressive?

The problem is, the majority of guests coming to Disney do not know much, if anything about alligators. They are not even aware they're on Disney property. Disney however, does know, and knows the risk. Therefore, it is their legal responsibility to educate/warn guests about those risks. In the eyes of the law, when you know about a risk on your property and you fail to warn others coming on to your property about that risk, you are liable for any injury etc... Commercial Liability 101.

 

[DnA2010]

What a horrible tragedy for this family.

Everyone wants to find someone to blame, because they want some assurance that this couldn't happen to THEM. So they blame the parents, or they blame Disney. But the reality is that playing on the beach, even at the edge of the water, is not really dangerous in any objective sense. The evidence (albeit non-scientific) is in this very thread. How many people have posted that their own kids have waded in the water? How many have posted that they've seen others do it? How many spend time on the beaches or using small watercraft on the lake itself every single day? And out of all that, how many have DIED from an alligator attack, or even been injured?

Was there a risk there? Sure. But every time I walk down the sidewalk, there's a risk that a car might jump the curb and run into me (or my kid). When I go out in winter, there's a risk I might slip on ice and crack my head. And let's not even get started on the risk I take with myself and my kids when I get in my car Every. Single. Day. Tragic things happen sometimes, and it's not always someone's fault.

Was it wise for a small child to be playing at the edge of the water, at night, in a season when alligators are known to be aggressive? No. Was the result foreseeable? Maybe, in the sense that something like this could probably be assumed to happen eventually. But there was no reason for either the parents OR Disney to assume that an attack was even remotely likely. If you put enough cars on the roads, it's inevitable that some of them will collide, and people will die. Does that mean we should all stop driving? Or, in this case, does it mean that Disney should put up fences, and nobody should ever be allowed to enjoy the beaches again? I don't think so. More specific signage might be reasonable, but some risk is inherent in life, no matter how many signs you put up.

You average visitor does not know enough about alligators or their presence at WDW to know they are there and that it is a season that they are known to be aggressive. I sign like those shown that note their presence would at least alert people to the potential risk.

 

[bpellis]

And please stop thinking anyone outside Gator Country knows *anything* about them. When I first heard the story, I thought it was weird that it happened at night. Are alligators nocturnal? I've never heard that. But now I'm reading that the time was a prime feeding time.

Agreed here. Disney is a world-wide destination. Tourists come from all over the world, and they may not have any clue that alligators are even Florida, let alone on Disney property right outside of their hotel rooms. I am from the US, and I was shocked that alligators were in the Seven Seas Lagoon. I just figured Disney would have systems in place to make sure they do not get in the lake. Mostly thought this since i've never seen a sign or mention that alligators were out there, and figured if they were, Disney would make a point to tell people.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

In a court of law? There's precedent for prior knowledge of a condition. One incident in 40 years, leans toward Disney's favor. Greatly.

People forget how the Orange County legal system works as well...

Read the small print on ticket media or your hotel paperwork...

The place is designed to create an environment of escapism to lead to high profits...

Alligators warnings, speeding tickets, pat downs, and E. coli warnings are not conducive to that.

Every price increase Around here is defended by "the market"...

So today...it's all about safety...the "market" doesn't get its say, huh?

That's a little convenient...isn't it?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Agreed here. Disney is a world-wide destination. Tourists come from all over the world, and they may not have any clue that alligators are even Florida, let alone on Disney property right outside of their hotel rooms. I am from the US, and I was shocked that alligators were in the Seven Seas Lagoon. I just figured Disney would have systems in place to make sure they do not get in the lake. Mostly thought this since i've never seen a sign or mention that alligators were out there, and figured if they were, Disney would make a point to tell people.

Again...there is no system that can do what you're proposing...

It's not inline with the purpose of the property...

And I have to reject the "i didn't know" that alligators use those teeth to eat other living creatures...or that they could come out if the water.

Really? Ignorance is bliss here?

Common sense isn't that common.

People expect too much because it has a Disney label on it and the bill is high. That's the Bottomline.

It would be easier to build that temperature controlled dome over the property that people ask for rather than eliminate the reptiles from a 42 square mile expanse of reclamated swamp.

 

[Madteaparty001]

The Walt Disney world resort is not CONTAINED!!!

They agreed to land and wildlife preservation as part of their deal for tax concessions and privileges.

If your going to make an argument...Check the details.

They have agreements with Florida and the south Florida water management district.

It came up with MGM just months ago...they had to purchase land south of 192 to add to their "bank"
Of preserved land so they could build on other areas.

Ecology has always been a part of WDW. It's one of those things that many of us love about the place and why we continue to let the dig in our pockets.

That characteristic is under assault a little today.

I don't disagree with anything you've just said. Where we seem to disagree is in what action should be taken from here on out.

 

[mcjaco]

The problem is, the majority of guests coming to Disney do not know much, if anything about alligators. They are not even aware they're on Disney property. Disney however, does know, and knows the risk. Therefore, it is their legal responsibility to educate/warn guests about those risks. In the eyes of the law, when you know about a risk on your property and you fail to warn others coming on to your property about that risk, you are liable for any injury etc... Commercial Liability 101.

Notice of prior condition.....1 incident in forty years, is not a notice or prior condition. There's a lot of loopholes in Commercial Liability, once you get past the 101.

 

[mcjaco]

Here's my question.

If there were signs about alligators in the water, and this still occurred, what would the stance be????

 

[ELSA711]

Agreed here. Disney is a world-wide destination. Tourists come from all over the world, and they may not have any clue that alligators are even Florida, let alone on Disney property right outside of their hotel rooms. I am from the US, and I was shocked that alligators were in the Seven Seas Lagoon. I just figured Disney would have systems in place to make sure they do not get in the lake. Mostly thought this since i've never seen a sign or mention that alligators were out there, and figured if they were, Disney would make a point to tell people.

I am a natural 'camper' and I research a ton and try to understand the natural and 'unnatural' surroundings and dangers for where we vacation. I am naïve as to how many people don't research every nook and cranny like I do.

 

[Redcon1]

Can't speak for others, but the only thing I am advocating is a standard Florida Department of Wildlife warning sign. Either of the two I believe would help.

And if anyone thinks these signs would spoil the magic or the theming...then maybe they're TOO much into those things to be realistic or rational and need to reassess their priorities.

 

[poison ivy]

In a court of law? There's precedent for prior knowledge of a condition. One incident in 40 years, leans toward Disney's favor. Greatly.

They may try to state this but the fact remains they did not do enough to insure the guests safety. There was no indication that wading in the water is not permitted.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't disagree with anything you've just said. Where we seem to disagree is in what action should be taken from here on out.

I'm advocating reasoanable action. Not "kill them all". That is Wrong. They serve their part of the environment...no
Matter what the desert papyrus scrolls say.

I expect more signage...possibly more controls on water lines...and end to the nighttime "cheapie" entertainment for resort stays (that will cause the most lament...rest assured)...and more lifeguard/security training at a minimum.

Not eradication or more invasion than necessary on the native population.

And now...that an incident has occurred...more stringent policies and controls on the gators in the area. Not a public hunt...a la the yeehaw jamboree.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

They may try to state this but the fact remains they did not do enough to insure the guests safety. There was no indication that wading in the water is not permitted.

Other than the no swimming signs?

In Orange County, Florida?

That dog don't hunt.

The reality is a settlement is gonna be reached quickly. That is assured. This will never come close to a robe.