Gabby Petito

[JimMIA]

I was actually EXTREMELY careful with my use of the word homicide precisely because it does mean that it’s the act of one human killing another.

That's the correct legal definition as used by medical examiners. But it does not mean murder.

In fact, most police agencies treat every unattended death without a doctor providing a death certificate as "homicide" cases. You treat death cases carefully in case they do turn out to be murders. I've seen several that initially looked natural, but were later found to be something completely different.

That doesn’t qualify as a “horrible accident” to me. Him killing her could have been ACCIDENTAL...

People kill each other accidentally all the time. Those are tragic cases, but it's not uncommon.

but there is ample proof that he tried to cover it up AND tried to get away with it.

I think it's a stretch to say we "know" a lot of things about this case. We don't, and the FBI deserves credit for not allowing much to leak out.

We know Brian came home, but certainly none of us here know why. (I expect the FBI does, or will soon from evidence obtained in their search warrant service.)

I have seen no authenticated information that Brian tried to cover anything up. He may have, but I haven't seen anything to "prove" that yet.

 

[JimMIA]

Yes, this. I guess I’m a little stymied as to why some people are so invested in making clear that law enforcement hasn’t made any determinations yet/no trial has taken place/no arrests have been made. I’m pretty sure that everyone here is aware of the fact that we’re all just people typing on the internet and not in charge of making any legal determinations about this guy’s fate. We don’t need referees to remind us of that. Sheesh.

For me, it's just habit. Jumping to conclusions is what leads to sloppy investigations and bad outcomes in investigations -- so it's been beaten into my thick skull for years.

Here on the Internet, jumping to conclusions is relatively harmless, as you said. Unfortunately what usually happens then is that some get upset because people jump to conclusions, and others get upset because people don't accept the conclusions they jumped to.

The truth is none of us know.

 

[Stratman50th]

Yes, but then there's also common sense. Autopsy confirmed homicide. I doubt she was killed in the woods by a pack of wild bunnies.

Bunnies, you're correct. What besides those wild bunnies in Yellowstone?
Hmmmm..

 

[Marrila]

Bunnies, you're correct. What besides those wild bunnies in Yellowstone?
Hmmmm..

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True. Usually the state or park service
warns folks in the area if wild animals have attacked humans recently.

 

[Kms943]

True. Usually the state or park service
warns folks in the area if wild animals have attacked humans recently.

I took these photos in June, so there are definitely large predators in the Tetons.

 

[supernova]

Bunnies, you're correct. What besides those wild bunnies in Yellowstone?
Hmmmm..

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You forgot one...

 

[supernova]

I took these photos in June, so there are definitely large predators in the Tetons.
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Predators with claws. And fangs. And shovels.

 

[NotUrsula]

Yes, this. I guess I’m a little stymied as to why some people are so invested in making clear that law enforcement hasn’t made any determinations yet/no trial has taken place/no arrests have been made. I’m pretty sure that everyone here is aware of the fact that we’re all just people typing on the internet and not in charge of making any legal determinations about this guy’s fate. We don’t need referees to remind us of that. Sheesh.

Unlike JIm, I'm not an investigator, but I think that the last couple of years have demonstrated that there are many people who truly believe that what is stated as fact on message boards and vlogging channels that they trust actually is fact. Some of them have gotten themselves arrested and convicted for taking the law into their own hands in outrage over falsehoods that they have read on the Internet and believed to be true.

I think it behooves all of us to make it a point to try never to state a supposition as fact where a possible crime is concerned, even here, and to call such statements out whenever we see them. I'm always going to assume that someone who says such a thing meant no malice by it, but being careless with what we say about strangers online can end up costing them their reputations, their livelihoods, and possibly even their lives, if online harassment rises to dangerous levels, and it can do so in the blink of an eye. The restaurant owner who ejected customers just a few days ago (over the topic we don't speak about here) has already been forced to move house because of death threats received from people who read an Instagram post about him. If the online mob will threaten death over that kind of minor insult, what might they do over something that they think is a murder?

PS: The thing about wild animals in Grand Teton getting reported for attacking people is the same point as the previous one about alligators eating people. Warnings get posted when the victim was alive at the time of the attack, but not when an animal was found to have treated an already dead person as food, because they don't have to be conditioned not to fear to people to do that; their ears & noses will tell them that it is safe to approach. It has happened more than once in wilderness areas that someone will witness an accidental death and have to leave to report it, but return to find the deceased is gone or no longer really recognizable because of animal predation. (And yes, I know that that is apparently not the situation here, but if you spend any time at all in the territory of large predators, you learn quickly never to discount them.)

 

[Sinder]

I have no idea what happened between them out in the wilderness. Did he plan to murder her all along, did he snap and kill her, did they fight and she fell and hit her head on a rock, did she run away and someone else killed her, did she get so emotionally distraught she killed herself in front of him? I don’t know what happened to her…but I want to give his parents a bit of the benefit of the doubt. My guess is he didn’t come home saying hey I killed gabby and they said oh you can hide here, we’ll protect you. After the first incident in Moab I’m sure he told his parents how she was almost charged with battery. Maybe they were encouraging him to leave her? Who knows? I know if my son told me his girlfriend was hitting him and he had scratches and the police were putting him up for the night to “protect” him from her I’d be telling him to get out of the relationship. I’m NOT saying their relationship was one sided and she was the aggressor…I’m saying thats probably how he portrayed it to his parents and I can see them wanting to protect their son. He could have come home and told them that they broke up, that she left him. From the 1st till the 10th when her parents showed up asking questions they could have believed any story their son told, that he was battered and that she left him. Considering he most likely saw her die and most likely was the cause of it I’m sure he was very emotional. They could have spent those 10 days being angry at her for breaking their sons heart. Then all of a sudden her parents are there at their door saying she’s missing and it’s all over the news and people are on their lawn. It would not be a stretch for them to think she had just run off and left him if that’s what he told them. I could totally see them protecting him at that point. Now that her body has been found I’d imagine they know he was involved, but now he is missing and I’m sure they fear he is dead. I lean more to thinking he’s killed himself. I just can’t imagine parents who would KNOW their child killed someone and protect them and help them escape. I’m holding out some hope that the parents were lied to by Brian and they are actually decent people. If so I feel for them for all of this.

I totally disagree with you about his parents.
Regardless of if he lied to them at the beginning, the minute they knew she was missing and her parents, and law enforcement were looking for her they knew he was still not talking and trying to help find her. They had to have known something was up right then.
I can see them wanting to protect their own child, it is a parents instinct. However their behavior is just as bizarre as his. He told them he was going out to go mediate on a Tuesday and they waited until Friday to report him missing. Wouldn't parents who wanted to protect their child so much that they kept their mouth shut about Gabby be insane with worry over him when he didn't return home that same day?
At that point they knew she was missing, wouldn't they be worried about his mental state, what he might do to himself? Why would they wait 3 more days before reporting him missing? No parent in their right mind, who was worried about their child would wait to report them missing for days.
Maybe it's because they knew he wasn't going anywhere to meditate, maybe it's because they knew he was leaving to go on the run and they were giving him time to get far enough away.


Seems when it comes to reporting missing persons Brian's apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

 

[mom2rtk]

And also, it is highly likely that any lawyer worth his salt initially advised the young man to say nothing, refuse to answer any questions, keep his head down and lie low.

I'm going to assume he didn't advise the young man to run off and for his parents to wait at least 2 days to say anything?

 

[AndreaA]

Bunnies, you're correct. What besides those wild bunnies in Yellowstone?
Hmmmm..

The whole idea of an animal killing her ignores the fact that in order for that to have happened, she would have had to be abandoned in the park. Unless Brian killed her (accidentally or otherwise) why wouldn’t he contact authorities to tell them that his manic fiancée was lost in the park? There is really no logical and innocent explanation for why he came home alone with HER van without alerting anyone to the fact that she was missing. If she had left him in a town, it seems as if she would have called her mother, with whom she had been in close contact.

 

[bcla]

Bunnies, you're correct. What besides those wild bunnies in Yellowstone?
Hmmmm..

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It wasn't in Yellowstone, but there are opportunistic scavengers all throughout the area that would have no problem if they found a dead human body. Even bears are more likely to eat meat from scavenging than from hunting. Coyotes, vultures, eagles, hawks, bears, and other animals will gladly consume any dead body.

 

[mom2rtk]

The whole idea of an animal killing her ignores the fact that in order for that to have happened, she would have had to be abandoned in the park. Unless Brian killed her (accidentally or otherwise) why wouldn’t he contact authorities to tell them that his manic fiancée was lost in the park? There is really no logical and innocent explanation for why he came home alone with HER van without alerting anyone to the fact that she was missing. If she had left him in a town, it seems as if she would have called her mother, with whom she had been in close contact.

Additionally, in some of the places they were traveling, leaving a person alone in the wilderness is extremely dangerous and perhaps one step shy of murder.

 

[mom2rtk]

At that point they knew she was missing, wouldn't they be worried about his mental state, what he might do to himself? Why would they wait 3 more days before reporting him missing? No parent in their right mind, who was worried about their child would wait to report them missing for days.
Maybe it's because they knew he wasn't going anywhere to meditate, maybe it's because they knew he was leaving to go on the run and they were giving him time to get far enough away.

I keep thinking about this. If they were aware there was some horrible accident, and he was distraught about it, to the point of not knowing what to do but get in her car and drive home, surely they would have been concerned that he might possibly hurt himself. The fact that he let him be "missing" for at least 2 days tells me they weren't concerned for him hurting himself. And that there was probably a plan they were seeing through.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Excellent point.

I can’t classify him as a monster just yet.

I was surprised to see where it (the deer cam location) is, on this map. I know you know this, as a FL resident yourself, but some of the rest of us probably don’t.

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I haven't been out in the wilderness on my own but that's quite the distance

Unlike JIm, I'm not an investigator, but I think that the last couple of years have demonstrated that there are many people who truly believe that what is stated as fact on message boards and vlogging channels that they trust actually is fact. Some of them have gotten themselves arrested and convicted for taking the law into their own hands in outrage over falsehoods that they have read on the Internet and believed to be true.

I think it behooves all of us to make it a point to try never to state a supposition as fact where a possible crime is concerned, even here, and to call such statements out whenever we see them. I'm always going to assume that someone who says such a thing meant no malice by it, but being careless with what we say about strangers online can end up costing them their reputations, their livelihoods, and possibly even their lives, if online harassment rises to dangerous levels, and it can do so in the blink of an eye. The restaurant owner who ejected customers just a few days ago (over the topic we don't speak about here) has already been forced to move house because of death threats received from people who read an Instagram post about him. If the online mob will threaten death over that kind of minor insult, what might they do over something that they think is a murder?

PS: The thing about wild animals in Grand Teton getting reported for attacking people is the same point as the previous one about alligators eating people. Warnings get posted when the victim was alive at the time of the attack, but not when an animal was found to have treated an already dead person as food, because they don't have to be conditioned not to fear to people to do that; their ears & noses will tell them that it is safe to approach. It has happened more than once in wilderness areas that someone will witness an accidental death and have to leave to report it, but return to find the deceased is gone or no longer really recognizable because of animal predation. (And yes, I know that that is apparently not the situation here, but if you spend any time at all in the territory of large predators, you learn quickly never to discount them.)

The Cecil Hotel docuseries is a good recent enough example (on Netflix) of what can happen too. I've always said the internet is a powerful tool but it can be used for good and bad.

**A completely general comment made here

 

[AndreaA]

Unlike JIm, I'm not an investigator, but I think that the last couple of years have demonstrated that there are many people who truly believe that what is stated as fact on message boards and vlogging channels that they trust actually is fact. Some of them have gotten themselves arrested and convicted for taking the law into their own hands in outrage over falsehoods that they have read on the Internet and believed to be true.

I think it behooves all of us to make it a point to try never to state a supposition as fact where a possible crime is concerned, even here, and to call such statements out whenever we see them. I'm always going to assume that someone who says such a thing meant no malice by it, but being careless with what we say about strangers online can end up costing them their reputations, their livelihoods, and possibly even their lives, if online harassment rises to dangerous levels, and it can do so in the blink of an eye. The restaurant owner who ejected customers just a few days ago (over the topic we don't speak about here) has already been forced to move house because of death threats received from people who read an Instagram post about him. If the online mob will threaten death over that kind of minor insult, what might they do over something that they think is a murder?

I’d agree with all of this if I hadn’t seen multiple instances of people being all to happy to jump to conclusions on other cases here with no one saying “boo” to them about it. The whole Dugger case springs immediately to mind. I don’t recall anyone saying, “well, maybe it was someone else using his computer”, etc.. (And to be clear, I think Duggar is guilty as can be, and yes the evidence there was more blatant). I’m just wondering what makes this case so much different for people. Yes, there are 101 possible ways this whole thing could have gone down, but realistically only a small handful make sense, and in all of them Brian is at the very least guilty of abandoning Gabby in the park, with death a pretty predictable result.

 

[MamaMermaid]

Why? Well off the top of my head, one reason might be knowing that he wouldn't stand a chance against the assumptions that would be made against him. Lots of examples of "judge, jury and executioner" types even in this thread. I am not saying its right, but, I can see a certain kind of innocent or confused or panicked person fleeing with an outlook of "I am not going down for this, no way".

I could also see parents, who truly believe their son is innocent, trying to help and protect him from the mob calling for his blood.

At this point, no one knows what happened out there.

I can understand that but why wouldn't you go to the cops the MINUTE she had officially "disappeared" and tell them what you know? I get the fear, the not wanting to be blamed for something you didn't do, etc. but he has brought upon himself the "judge, jury, and executioner" by BEING evasive and unwilling.

 

[Moliphino]

Why? Well off the top of my head, one reason might be knowing that he wouldn't stand a chance against the assumptions that would be made against him. Lots of examples of "judge, jury and executioner" types even in this thread. I am not saying its right, but, I can see a certain kind of innocent or confused or panicked person fleeing with an outlook of "I am not going down for this, no way".

I could also see parents, who truly believe their son is innocent, trying to help and protect him from the mob calling for his blood.

At this point, no one knows what happened out there.

I don't think the mob would be calling for his blood so much if he hadn't clammed up and refused to help in any way and then ran away.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Everybody suddenly seems like experts on gaslighting. None of that matters anymore. I doubt they’ll be getting into the nuances of gaslighting in a trial if Brian is found alive and if he is charged with Gabby’s murder, if a murder occurred.

Spoilers: Brian is going to be found dead drowned in a pond at his home. The ghost of his first wife, Marion, killed him.

 

[tzolkin]

As for his parents and whether or not they should have suspected something or asked more questions, I would again point to the fact that HE HAD HER VAN. Did they not wonder how she got home? Did they not call her parents to ask after her? Really?? I mean granted, my kids are only 12, but if they came home with something I know I didn’t buy them, then I’d ASK where they got it, and if the story wasn’t a good one, I’d contact the school/other parents to make sure everything was on the up and up. If they were mid-twenties and came home with a CAR? Yeah, I’d have more than a few questions, and I’d be seeking proof, not just their word for it.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing with some of the defensive comments about his parents. They had known this girl since high school and she lived with them. Even if their son told them they had broken up and that's why he had returned home without her, you would think they would still have some concern over her safety.

If my son came home with his fiance's vehicle (which was also technically her home/shelter), I would be asking a lot of questions (where did you leave her? how is she planning to get back? etc) and would likely call or text her and/or her parents to make sure she had made it home safely. Even if for some reason I was convinced by my son's story and didn't immediately reach out to them, I cannot fathom ignoring the girl's parents' calls when they contacted me because they hadn't heard from her in weeks and couldn't find her. At that point, you know there is something wrong and I think it's basic human decency to try to help.