Gabby Petito

[bcla]

In regard to jurisdiction, there may be an important point to note. The remains of Ms. Petito were not found inside Grand Teton National Park. They were found just outside the boundary of the park itself, on land designated as part of the Bridger-Teton National Forest. What makes that tricky is that while National Park lands are considered to be completely under the control of Federal authorities, the same is not always true of National Forests. There are law enforcement agents of the Forest Service stationed in National Forests, whose job it is to investigate crimes that affect the environment (such as arson or illegal logging), but it is fairly common in the National Forests to leave crimes against persons to be dealt with by local authorities. (I'm not an expert, but I live near one of the more populated Nat'l Forests, and this often comes up when murders are committed in rural areas that fall within it; usually those are handled by county law enforcement.)

14 USC 480:

To answer a question posed above: yes, authorities initially brought out extra searchers for the men reported missing in Grand Teton. Cian McGlaughlin, a 27 year old Irishman temporarily working in the area, was last seen walking in the area on June 8th and was declared missing on June 12th. The last public notice about the search was posted June 23rd. The other man, Robert Lowery, a 46 yo from Houston, was last seen in a nearby town on August 19th, and told his sister he intended to go camping in the Park, though he had no experience. His phone was last used on August 23rd, and there has been no trace since. Apparently, the big search parties normally go out for about a week, but if no trace is found they usually get dialed back to the point that only the on-duty rangers continue to search.

These are HUGE areas of land, and searching every inch of them indefinitely is beyond the normal resources of law enforcement. Honestly, it's probably a miracle that people don't stay lost more often. Apparently, remains of a kayaker who went missing near the Park in 1995 and were found in a different state in 2002 were positively identified only a few days ago, after an officer who was on the original case happened to read an article in an old magazine and wondered if the unidentified remains it mentioned might be his missing kayaker. (In that case, they knew the man was dead because they briefly located his body, but the river took it before it could be recovered.)

I've followed some of the interesting stuff about justidctional issues in national forests. At least in my state, local law enforcement has to specifically authorize specific federal law enforcement to enforce state laws within their jurisdictions. This can get tricky when there are multiple jurisdictions - usually across county lines, although I've heard it's supposed to be perfunctory. There is a specific carve out for "national park rangers" although it's not specific that it's for only law enforcement rangers with the authority to carry guns. But in many ways I was under the impression that many local law enforcement would prefer that they not have to provide routine law enforcement on federal land, especially many rural areas where there's a lot of land and not enough sworn officers.

We had a case where the Sheriff of El Dorado County rescinded Forest Service law enforcement personnel in his county from enforcing state laws in the county.

https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/201...orest-service-of-state-law-enforcement-power/​

Sheriff John D’Agostini is taking the unusual step of pulling the police powers from the federal agency because he says he has received “numerous, numerous complaints.”​

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In a letter obtained by CBS13, the sheriff informs the federal agency that its officers will no longer be able to enforce California state law anywhere in his county.​

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“I take the service that we provide to the citizens of El Dorado County and the visitors to El Dorado County very seriously, and the style and manner of service we provide,” D’Agostini said. “The U.S. Forest Service, after many attempts and given many opportunities, has failed to meet that standard.”​

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The sheriff won’t give specifics, but he says he’s concerned about the number of complaints his department’s received against the federal officers.​

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We asked law professor John Myers if the sheriff’s actions can supercede the feds.​

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“Looks to me as though the sheriff can do this,” he said. “They don’t have state powers in the first place, but essentially the sheriff can deputize individuals to have authority in his or her jurisdiction.”​

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The U.S. Forest Services wouldn’t comment beyond this statement:​

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“The U.S. Forest Service Law Enforcement has not received this letter yet, but we have valued our partnership and good working relationship with the county over the years.”​

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But with limited resources and such a large area to patrol, some may be concerned that public safety may be compromised.​

And yeah it gets strange depending on a number of legal jurisdictional issues. The different jurisdictional categories are proprietary (where specific laws regarding a specific type of federal property apply), exclusive (where the feds have sole jurisdiction), or concurrent (where either jurisdiction can choose to prosecute a crime).

 

[Heigh-Ho]

At first I really thought Brian was harmless. I thought he was just some dorky guy who was afraid. After talking to people and seeing the recent developments, the more I think he was an active participant in her death.

I know I originally said he was harmless and a victim of circumstance. It is becoming clear to me that I am not a good judge of men, this is probably why I have 2 ex-husbands.

I don't know whether to like or sad face your post. I'd like it (I don't think he's a wholesome guy either just not sure on the death part) but I'd put a sad face about you saying you're not a good judge of men/having 2 exes only to mean you're being too hard on yourself

 

[bcla]

From what I've seen, it usually comes down to the physical evidence; if authorities feel confident that they know where the crime actually occured, then that county will be deemed to have jurisdiction; otherwise, the county where the remains were found will normally take it. The rangers usually seem to cede control to the counties fairly quickly unless a Federal law that is specific to forest lands has been violated.

Well - I know there's definitions that don't necessarily mean the same depending on the agency. The National Park Service has law enforcement rangers with that authority. The Forest Service actually calls their law enforcement officers and special agents, where rangers are really just managers and interpretive staff. And California State Parks is the opposite, where rangers are only law enforcement but interpretive staff are called interpreters.

I suspect that a lot of Forest Service land is subject to concurrent jurisdiction where they might consider some crimes best left for the locals. But this is so big that the feds are likely to take over.

 

[tzolkin]

what doctor would diagnosis anxiety with out giving meds I was 21 and I don’t remember getting a choice in the matter

You were forced to take medication for anxiety? Most adults are free to decide for themselves whether or not they want to take medication for a physical or mental illness.

I’m not sure where people are getting their information that “he hit her”, except if maybe they read different sources than what I read.

At least one of the linked articles definitely reported that he hit her, but I believe the majority said that he “grabbed her face” and “shoved” her (but did not “hit” her). I think any altercation is going to be reported by witnesses with their own biases and perceptions. The descriptions are subjective, not absolute fact.

I believe most people I know would lump any “mild” physical assault in the same category so the face grabbing and shoving may be considered “hitting” by some observers. For them, ANY incidence of him laying his hands on her would be described as hitting/assault. Whereas someone else (perhaps someone who has been exposed to violence and abuse regularly) may say “well he didn’t hit her, he just pushed her around a bit”.

Please note that I am not staying one of these is “correct”. I’m just giving an example of how two people witnessing the exact same incident may perceive and describe it differently.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

You were forced to take medication for anxiety? Most adults are free to decide for themselves whether or not they want to take medication for a physical or mental illness.


At least one of the linked articles definitely reported that he hit her, but I believe the majority said that he “grabbed her face” and “shoved” her (but did not “hit” her). I think any altercation is going to be reported by witnesses with their own biases and perceptions. The descriptions are subjective, not absolute fact.

I believe most people I know would lump any “mild” physical assault in the same category so the face grabbing and shoving may be considered “hitting” by some observers. For them, ANY incidence of him laying his hands on her would be described as hitting/assault. Whereas someone else (perhaps someone who has been exposed to violence and abuse regularly) may say “well he didn’t hit her, he just pushed her around a bit”.

Please note that I am not staying one of these is “correct”. I’m just giving an example of how two people witnessing the exact same incident may perceive and describe it differently.

I am also reading there could’ve been a miscommunication with what the dispatcher told the responding officers.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

One of the local news has picked up that they stopped at one of the national parks in the western part of our state based off an instagram post. It was July 4th.

The interesting thing not talked about in the news story is people commenting on the instagram post saying it was edited about 6 weeks ago (these comments were from about 5 to 6 days ago). I don't know where to see about the edits I don't have instagram myself (but someone said the captions for her post on July 4th all showed edits). Someone said "every caption that’s edited has his name in it" Another person said she def. wasn't the only one posting to the account which could be something to get one's ears perked but it could also be they were sharing or at times he posted but it's all with her permission but I get where people are coming from. Another one mentioned a 4 month gap in instagram posts but I know she was still in communication with people at the end of August there was that facetime mentioned and that friend mentioned talking to her at the beginning of August. But like I said I don't have instagram not too familiar with it, just reading the comments from this post the news brought up.

 

[Wendy1985]

For the poster asking forced is a strong word I agree

 

[mmouse37]

John Walsh (Americas Most Wanted) just gave a scathing account of the whole investigation so far. He is calling out the parents of Laundrie as uncooperative and dubbed them the "dirty laundries". He did not hold back about his feeling on the matter and Brian Laundrie. This was on GMA this morning. He will be profiling Laundrie on his show on Wednesday night. Says the public will be the ones that find him...he feels he is on the run.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

They were even concerned for “Battered Boyfriend Syndrome” with Brian

Obviously, nobody here is an expert although we all like to pretend to be. I wouldn't be surprised if he killed her in self-defense Which means he might not even be found guilty in the end.

 

[Dentam]

John Walsh (Americas Most Wanted) just gave a scathing account of the whole investigation so far. He is calling out the parents of Laundrie as uncooperative and dubbed them the "dirty laundries". He did not hold back about his feeling on the matter and Brian Laundrie. This was on GMA this morning. He will be profiling Laundrie on his show on Wednesday night. Says the public will be the ones that find him...he feels he is on the run.

It's definitely looking like they gave police bad information on where he may have gone in order to give him more time to get away. He could be anywhere by now.

 

[mom2rtk]

It's definitely looking like they gave police bad information on where he may have gone in order to give him more time to get away. He could be anywhere by now.

Sadly, that's exactly what I think they did.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

John Walsh (Americas Most Wanted) just gave a scathing account of the whole investigation so far. He is calling out the parents of Laundrie as uncooperative and dubbed them the "dirty laundries". He did not hold back about his feeling on the matter and Brian Laundrie. This was on GMA this morning. He will be profiling Laundrie on his show on Wednesday night. Says the public will be the ones that find him...he feels he is on the run.

It's unfortunate his parents are doing this even if as pea-n-me was talking about parental instincts at play. The public, even as "not in their wheelhouse" this is since it's a law enforcement matter I'd believe it if they found him.

 

[mom2rtk]

John Walsh (Americas Most Wanted) just gave a scathing account of the whole investigation so far. He is calling out the parents of Laundrie as uncooperative and dubbed them the "dirty laundries". He did not hold back about his feeling on the matter and Brian Laundrie. This was on GMA this morning. He will be profiling Laundrie on his show on Wednesday night. Says the public will be the ones that find him...he feels he is on the run.

Thanks. Just found it online and watched. Nice to hear him weigh in on this. Glad to hear he's featuring the case on his show this week.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

I thought they were responding to the person talking about the conversation did she actually him or not because of these quotes



When I was reading their comments about gaslighting I thought they were agreeing with the poster about saying gaslighting was a possibility but they seemed to be saying it's a possibility that she was gaslighting him instead of only looking at it that he was gaslighting her because that's how the other comment read that it was only about the possibility of him gaslighting her. I think (well that's all I could come up with) that's what was going on. It's getting a bit back and forth though. I don't think any harm was meant. Just seemed to say 'hey girls can do it do' I guess.
Whoa whoa whoa back up I didn't see sarcasm??

I'm just getting caught up here. That conversation was because of seeing the fly comment. If it was mostly just one person with that opinion (and no offense to that person) then I don't think that's reflective of this thread. Maybe we should ask the question why you felt the need to laugh at their posts? Isn't that just a form of sarcasm when used that way?

No didn't mean that at all.

I know what gaslighting is. Reread my comment please. Gaslighting is not exclusive to being done to women it's a characteristic of a toxic and abusive relationship but is not defined by gender. I'm saying I don't know could have happened that way or she could have done it to him. They were on the road for several months and had what appeared to be tense times. Who knows what all transpired. I just don't know.

If the police officer isn't confused then why did he write in that she slapped him. Why does the report reflect her as the aggressor and he as the victim in the post pea-n-me posted several pages back? That's what I was asking.

Because officer is taking what she said at face value. She SAID she slapped him so he wrote that in report. Women I am sure can also, but she is not gaslighting at all bc she is very honest here that she hit him. In gaslighting or narcissistic manipulative type behavior, the bad one appears as the good one. Things are manipulated to appear on the surface opposite. She is taking the fall so she is not gaslighting. If you go along with 911 caller, he was striking her. She may have eventually fought back. If she is gaslighted she thinks she is the bad one. That may have happened here. Or not, saying it is a possibility. She is also sadly DEAD. I have seen and experienced this myself. I had a brother when I was a teen that would hit me continuously and then go to my parents bf I said anything and say opposite. There were no marks and I would eventually strike back to protect myself. I always lost and I appeared as bad one, no one believed me bc he was very manipulative about it. It still upsets me and I am waaay past teen years lol.

 

[GreatLakes]

The only credible report we have so far is that she was the aggressor, not him. There is a police report. None of us know what happened including me but he wouldn't be the first person to kill his abuser if the police report is true.

Society doesn't decide what's covered on the evening news.

Yes they do. They may not literally set the programming but society decides by what they watch, click on, and buy at the newsstand.

The news shouldn't be ratings driven but it is.

 

[mom2rtk]

Yes they do. They may not literally set the programming but society decides by what they watch, click on, and buy at the newsstand.

The news shouldn't be ratings driven but it is.

None of us would even know about this case if it hadn't been covered in the news in the first place.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

The only credible report we have so far is that she was the aggressor, not him. There is a police report. None of us know what happened including me but he wouldn't be the first person to kill his abuser if the police report is true.



Yes they do. They may not literally set the programming but society decides by what they watch, click on, and buy at the newsstand.

The news shouldn't be ratings driven but it is.

There is also the 911 report that said they saw him hitting her. So saying that the only credible report is she was the aggressor is not really true. As far as news driven by ratings, yes, that is true, but the news should not be driven by ratings. You blame that just on the audience? or should the ones making the profit be blamed? It never used to be, but many regulations were dismantled over the years. News now is about profit and money at all costs, even if that means misinformation, and that does say a lot about our society and system.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Because officer is taking what she said at face value. She SAID she slapped him. But in gaslighting or narcissistic manipulative type behavior, the bad one appears as the good one. Things are manipulated to appear on the surface opposite. Someone can be so abused and hurt that they strike back. If you go along with 911 caller, he was striking her. She may have eventually fought back. If she is gaslighted she thinks she is the bad one. That may have happened here. I have seen and experienced this myself. I had a brother when I was a teen that would hit me continuously and then go to my parents bf I said anything and say opposite. There were no marks and I would eventually strike back to protect myself. I always lost and I appeared as bad one bc he was very manipulative about it. It still upsets me and I am waaay past teen years lol.

I sympathize with what you went through

In all honesty I have nothing to go off of that gaslighting occurred. I'm not at all saying that wasn't a thing in their relationship. I have nothing to go off of that if it did he was the one doing it to her or if he was doing it to her that he was exclusively doing it to her and she never did it to him. You don't have to convince me that gaslighting occurs, you don't have to convince me of what gaslighting is. I was saying I don't have information that it was a part of their relationship, that it led to her saying she slapped him but really it was his fault. I do think tzolkin has a good point about witnesses and the way we may describe things varies from person to person, it's at least a good discussion to have. If you feel like you know with a strong conviction that he gaslighted her, had been all along, etc that's totally fine, it's equally fine for me to say I don't have the information to say such (which is not to be construed for a denial that gaslighting occurs in relationships, I feel like that's what you were reading from my comments and perhaps the source of confusion).

It doesn't mean I see Brian as some outstanding guy either, I feel like I've been pretty clear he had his issues as well. There are stories that don't match up and details that are going back and forth. It hasn't seemed like a clear cut case from the beginning at least to me. That's a frustration point as it's been a zigzag messed up bag of whatever since the missing person case started up in the media.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

I sympathize with what you went through

In all honesty I have nothing to go off of that gaslighting occurred. I'm not at all saying that wasn't a thing in their relationship. I have nothing to go off of that if it did he was the one doing it to her or if he was doing it to her that he was exclusively doing it to her and she never did it to him. You don't have to convince me that gaslighting occurs, you don't have to convince me of what gaslighting is. I was saying I don't have information that it was a part of their relationship, that it led to her saying she slapped him but really it was his fault. I do think tzolkin has a good point about witnesses and the way we may describe things varies from person to person, it's at least a good discussion to have. If you feel like you know with a strong conviction that he gaslighted her, had been all along, etc that's totally fine, it's equally fine for me to say I don't have the information to say such (which is not to be construed for a denial that gaslighting occurs in relationships, I feel like that's what you were reading from my comments and perhaps the source of confusion).

It doesn't mean I see Brian as some outstanding guy either, I feel like I've been pretty clear he had his issues as well. There are stories that don't match up and details that are going back and forth. It hasn't seemed like a clear cut case from the beginning at least to me. That's a frustration point as it's been a zigzag messed up bag of whatever since the missing person case started up in the media.

Thank you. If the 911 call is true then that is where I see the gaslighting really being a thing. She is also sadly DEAD so another reason. I also agree that this is a frustrating case and there is zigzagging. I just hope that we do finally get to the bottom of what actually happened. I think anyone that has obstructed justice should also be held responsible in some way and seems his parents are doing that. Sometimes these cases we never really know what happened.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Good article from the perspective of the only female officer on the scene of the police incident that talks about the back and forth of a situation like this, and whether she could’ve done anything different to help Gabby.

Arches Park Ranger Warned Gabby Petito Her Relationship Seemed “Toxic“