FYI - TSA is not playing around right now!

[yitbos96bb]

Thanks for the interesting post. I traveled once to Israel from Munich, Germany. The security for that flight was impressive. And it was a very long an convoluted process with the interviews and then the examination of every single bag. There was even an armed vehicle driving along the plane until it was in the air. If that level of security was introduced on a mass scale, I would expect people needing to be at the airport at least four hours before their flight to get through security. And airports would need to be rebuilt to have space for all this screening to go on.

Your post about how the look of the terrorists might change reminded me of a poem by a German pastor who was imprissoned by the Nazis called Martin Niemöller. He was at first rather admiring the Nazis because he was very anti-communist.

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...) the English translation of the poem goes like this:

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

I am not saying security measures can be compared with the injustices done by Germany during the Nazi regime (being German myself, I would never think that apprpriate in any way), but it illustrates how easy things can slide in a direction which becomes unstoppable at some point.

Which was the point I was trying to get across. I feel many proponents of Profiling only support it because they are not within the expected group. I object to profiling both on Moral grounds and on the grounds that it is false security. The lap rules are the same thing... they give a false impression of security, when no security exists. Its like requiring a 15 digit password that changes every 30 days for a PC. It SOUNDS like strong security, but human nature will undermine that security by things such as writing it down. And really, how many FA are going to let an old woman or little kid wet themselves on the last hour of a flight...

Although the airlines could make a killing on selling Adult Diapers ;-)

 

[Bethshaya]

Ugh - Stupidest rule ever. Time to find sleazy class action attorneys and sue.... not a big litigation fan, but sometimes stupidity needs to be dealt with.

So you are willing for a terrorist to be able to assemble a bomb in their lap like the last one did, just so you could read your magazine?

I will gladly sit empty handed and chat with a neighbor, take a snooze, or meditate..whatever, just to guarantee that I actually land on that plane.

While there is a line drawn between inconvienence and loss of constitutional rights, this new "rule" is no where near it.

 

[dburg30]

So you are willing for a terrorist to be able to assemble a bomb in their lap like the last one did, just so you could read your magazine?

I will gladly sit empty handed and chat with a neighbor, take a snooze, or meditate..whatever, just to guarantee that I actually land on that plane.

While there is a line drawn between inconvienence and loss of constitutional rights, this new "rule" is no where near it.

There is no such thing as a guarantee.. Anyone that tells you that is lying

 

[Flossbolna]

Although the airlines could make a killing on selling Adult Diapers ;-)

Totally OT, but this reminds me of my trip to WDW in 2007 when we were connecting at IAD from our international flight to a domestic flight and during the layover kept hearing the stories about this astronaut who drove to Florida wearing diapers to assault her lover's wife! It was on the news permanently and we were to tired to do anything to occupy ourself, we could only sit there waiting for the delayed plane. This story is engraved in my brain!!

 

[Flossbolna]

It appears that the one hour rule has come to an end:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/28/national/main6030609.shtml?tag=stack

 

[yitbos96bb]

So you are willing for a terrorist to be able to assemble a bomb in their lap like the last one did, just so you could read your magazine?

I will gladly sit empty handed and chat with a neighbor, take a snooze, or meditate..whatever, just to guarantee that I actually land on that plane.

While there is a line drawn between inconvienence and loss of constitutional rights, this new "rule" is no where near it.

First off, I said the lawsuit comment as snark to the situation... I have edited for those who don't seem to understand that.

2) Yes, I'll take the chance. First the chances of this ever happening again are slim to none... Just like I do not believe that terrorists will ever be able to hijack a US plane again or fly it into a building... In fact, what I have predicted for 8 years is exactly what happened on this flight...a s SOON as anyone had a whiff of things being wrong, the passengers went after him. If a plane was hijacked, either that will happen or a jet fighter will shoot the plane down. So yes, given that the chances of being in a Plane that is hijacked or blown up is less than winning the lottery or getting hit by lightning (or possibly both), then I'd rather avoid giving up freedom for security to paraphrase Ben Franklin. Ask yourself in the history of modern aviation JUST how many times this has happened to US planes and then how many US flights happen daily.

3) The above situation

4) Whether he built it in the bathroom or on his lap is in dispute (I have seen both), however, evidently, its not a very easy thing to do on a plane. This guy was not an Al Queda mastermind but a rank amateur who didn't know what he was doing. Had the CURRENT security measures already in place been accurately followed, this wouldn't have happened.

5) There are many different security measures discussed earlier that would be far more effective than the no bathroom, nothing in the lap knee jerk reaction. It's as stupid as the 3-1-1 rule... heck, No liquids was a much better security deterrent than the 3-1-1 rule which is just a slight inconvenience.

So yes, I think its a stupid idea and apparently TSA agreed since it has been eased already. I'm guessing some mid-level manager made this idiotic decision because of the holiday and smarter, saner, competent people changed it today.

 

[onelilspark]

It appears that the one hour rule has come to an end:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/28/national/main6030609.shtml?tag=stack

Thank goodness...what a crock that was anyway! Thanks for the info

 

[seashoreCM]

And really, how many FA are going to let an old woman or little kid wet themselves on the last hour of a flight...-)

The seats will get mighty wet too and may well take most of the fouling.

 

[Shelly F - Ohio]

Well I guess the FA will now have to make an annoucement prior to the last hour of the flight that it is now last call for those who need to use the bathroom. Like the bars do when it's an hour before closing and they have to stop serving alcohol.

The seats will get mighty wet too and may well take most of the fouling.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Well I guess the FA will now have to make an annoucement prior to the last hour of the flight that it is now last call for those who need to use the bathroom. Like the bars do when it's an hour before closing and they have to stop serving alcohol.

The rules are pretty much being rescinded. Sounds like its pilot's choice now.

 

[Wishes Count]

The seats will get mighty wet too and may well take most of the fouling.

I hope this one hour rule is really revoked. As someone with Ulcerative Colitis, a serious Inflammatory bowl disease, I often have to use the restroom at a moments notice IMMEDIATELY. I cannot physically 'hold it'. I would rather fly because of the safety of knowing there is a bathroom close by (as compared to driving and finding a rest area). I'm would feel sorry for whoever was stuck sitting next to me should I not be allowed access to a restroom. And I would probably send my dry cleaning bill to the airline

 

[disneylove69]

Ugh - Stupidest rule ever. Time to find sleazy class action attorneys and sue.... not a big litigation fan, but sometimes stupidity needs to be dealt with.

Ok I'm editing and adding to this for the few people who can't see to get the snark in this... I have no intention to see, it was said tounge in cheek. However, I do feel that there is a possibility it could happen when an incontinent person is refused bathroom usage.

The local news just announced that the hour rule was being set on the airline crew that you are flying with and not a TSA rule. As far as the bathroom if you are on a flight using the rule stewardess would walk you to the bathroom.

Also, they had a manager of TSA say that the rules are different at each airport and are meant to make it confusing. They are doing this on purpose. so no one knows what to expect.

 

[yitbos96bb]

The local news just announced that the hour rule was being set on the airline crew that you are flying with and not a TSA rule. As far as the bathroom if you are on a flight using the rule stewardess would walk you to the bathroom.

Also, they had a manager of TSA say that the rules are different at each airport and are meant to make it confusing. They are doing this on purpose. so no one knows what to expect.

Your local TV crew is mistaken. The rules WERE TSA Rules. TSA announced today that they are now leaving it up to the pilots. I believe we also discussed the random rules at each airport earlier but I can't remember. Regardless there is a link to an article on the easing of restrictions posted several hours ago up thread.

 

[momto3boys]

So you are willing for a terrorist to be able to assemble a bomb in their lap like the last one did, just so you could read your magazine?

I believe the point is that the new procedures will do nothing to stop someone from assembling a bomb if they choose to do so. What WILL stop a terrorist is keeping them from getting on the plane in the first place.

The Truth About Airport Security Measures

 

[TillyMarigold]

i don't think we disagree all that much - .

and as far as my bh/be nine-year old being under enhanced scrutiny because neo-nazis "might" become terrorists. really It is a known fact that islamic terrorists have a very specific profile and they are the ones wishing to use planes as weapons. I think if we focus on actually investigating those on the "watch lists" and being proactive with regard to hostile cultures- all of the "enhanced security measures" would be less necessary.

You're joking right? HAVE YOU SEEN THE PICTURE OF THE CHRISTMAS DAY GUY?!?!?!?!? Hint: He was from NIGERIA.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...k-Umar-Farouk-Abdulmutallab-defended-911.html

Young, clean-shaven, well-dressed, BLACK MAN. No beard, no head covering, not Arab. You know why al-Qaeda recruits kids like him? BECAUSE HE DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WHAT YOU THINK A TERRORIST LOOKS LIKE.

Oh and the "watch list" he was on gets about 1000 people added to it every week. The other 999 people added to it last week HAVEN'T blown up a plane. Nor the 1000 people the week before. Or the 1000 people the week before that. Or the 50,000 other people added this year, or the 50,000 added last year ...

 

[TillyMarigold]

I hope this one hour rule is really revoked. As someone with Ulcerative Colitis, a serious Inflammatory bowl disease, I often have to use the restroom at a moments notice IMMEDIATELY. I cannot physically 'hold it'. I would rather fly because of the safety of knowing there is a bathroom close by (as compared to driving and finding a rest area). I'm would feel sorry for whoever was stuck sitting next to me should I not be allowed access to a restroom. And I would probably send my dry cleaning bill to the airline

If you ring for a flight attendant, one will escort you to the bathroom.

 

[bumbershoot]

I hope this one hour rule is really revoked. As someone with Ulcerative Colitis, a serious Inflammatory bowl disease, I often have to use the restroom at a moments notice IMMEDIATELY. I cannot physically 'hold it'.

Not as serious, but still embarrassing....DH was diagnosed with diabetes a bit over a year ago. In the many months leading up to the "think I'm going to die" illness he had over a weekend, he was having a harder and harder time making it to the bathroom after having any liquid. And he rode the bus, for an hour, to and from work. It was AWFUL.

And when I heard about the hour thing...I thought about all the people with as yet undiagnosed blood sugar problems, embarrassing themselves.

And considering how little the Virgin America FAs cared that DS had thrown up all over the *seat* just before landing...I kinda doubt any seat gets cleaned all that much!

If you ring for a flight attendant, one will escort you to the bathroom.

I think probably anyone with a serious problem should let the whole FA crew know that they will *have to* go when they need to go, ahead of time. Which really sucks.

and as far as my bh/be nine-year old being under enhanced scrutiny because neo-nazis "might" become terrorists. really It is a known fact that islamic terrorists have a very specific profile and they are the ones wishing to use planes as weapons. I think if we focus on actually investigating those on the "watch lists" and being proactive with regard to hostile cultures- all of the "enhanced security measures" would be less necessary.

Oooh...you know I was just going through a "picture from each month of the decade" thing on msnbc, and it had a picture of the prison the morning Timothy McVeigh was executed. You know, the domestic, white, terrorist that blasted a world trade center? Not islamic, not non-white, and all?

My husband is half Korean, looks Mexican to most people, and for a time he was getting yanked out of lines left and right. He was totally OK with it. The liquids thing? Drives him bananas. But answering a few more questions, apart from the embarrassment that is gone in a moment, he was OK with.

I'm a blondey blue (well, if I live in CA I'm blonde...up here in WA I'm more reddish browny) and i'm not looked at by security (except I get REALLY nervous and stutter and stuff), but if some Irish terrorist had my name and they needed to look at me more, I'm cool with it.

Some of the other stuff TSA does is silly, but I'd like them to expand their horizons from just "the people who have already done this big thing" into "who might do more things". I cannot believe I just said that, but there ya go.

So you are willing for a terrorist to be able to assemble a bomb in their lap like the last one did, just so you could read your magazine?

I will gladly sit empty handed and chat with a neighbor, take a snooze, or meditate..whatever, just to guarantee that I actually land on that plane.

So if *everyone* on that plane is behaving abnormally, HOW do you spot the one doing something seriously abnormal???? As I swear someone just said on this thread, people noticed something off and did something about it. If everyone's sitting there staring straight ahead, or sleeping, etc, how will anyone notice?

 

[rantnnravin]

You're joking right? HAVE YOU SEEN THE PICTURE OF THE CHRISTMAS DAY GUY?!?!?!?!? Hint: He was from NIGERIA.

Young, clean-shaven, well-dressed, BLACK MAN. No beard, no head covering, not Arab. You know why al-Qaeda recruits kids like him? BECAUSE HE DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WHAT YOU THINK A TERRORIST LOOKS LIKE.

Oh and the "watch list" he was on gets about 1000 people added to it every week. The other 999 people added to it last week HAVEN'T blown up a plane. Nor the 1000 people the week before. Or the 1000 people the week before that. Or the 50,000 other people added this year, or the 50,000 added last year ...

Profiling has more to do with psychology and background than it does with "looks"
profiling (recording a person's behavior and analyzing psychological characteristics in order to predict or assess their ability in a certain sphere or to identify a particular group of people)
Whatever race, religion, or sexuality a mass murderer may be, they have a "profile" that correlates with others of his ilk.
This is the type of profiling I was discussing before my point was obfuscated but someone more interested in Merriam-Webster than national security. [and for the record : the 14th amendment cases cited had specific stipulations in their SCOTUS rulings (ie. the use of the words "race alone") which - interestingly - were not disputed in a case regarding wartime regulations with respect to foreign nationals from countries hostile to the U.S. --- but I digress]
Oh - and the "watch list" has serious flaws - which is the POINT I was making. Although there may be thousands on the watch list who "haven't" done anything - how many of them have been to the US a few times and are scoping and/or planning their attacks -- or planning attacks for others? MUCH more has to be done to "profile" the people seeking entry/visas into our country. Once they are on a plane into or have arrived on American soil, it is TOO LATE.

 

[crashbb]

If you ring for a flight attendant, one will escort you to the bathroom.

Many, many years ago I was flying between Moscow and Warsaw (I think those were the cities - I was about 7). Anyway, it was before the fall of the Iron Curtain, and these flights were targets for hijackings (to get to the West). When we boarded, we were told that you needed to ring for a flight attendant if you needed to use the washroom. Being young, I just how nice it was that they didn't want you to maybe fall in case of turbulence.

Of course, I totally forgot about the rule when I needed to use the washroom. Next thing you know, two armed guards are on either side of me. I promptly burst into tears (my brother, my only traveling companion, decided that he didn't know me).

Honestly, it must have been quite the sight - I'm pretty sure that my head didn't even come as high as the guns that they were holding near their waists.

 

[WDWisTheBest]

I hope this one hour rule is really revoked. As someone with Ulcerative Colitis, a serious Inflammatory bowl disease, I often have to use the restroom at a moments notice IMMEDIATELY. I cannot physically 'hold it'. I would rather fly because of the safety of knowing there is a bathroom close by (as compared to driving and finding a rest area). I'm would feel sorry for whoever was stuck sitting next to me should I not be allowed access to a restroom. And I would probably send my dry cleaning bill to the airline

Has the "last hour" rule changed about going to the bathroom aboard planes during the last hour of flight before landing?